Blacklisted for overstay. Name change on passport

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, Keithsbd said:

I have a thai wife over there.  My passport was stolen. By time my new one arrived i was on overstay. When i told immigration it was stolen and provided police reports they didnt care. Just said it was my problem and sent me to detention centre in Bangkok 

I think there is something here you are not telling us, I am no fan of Thai immigration, but I cannot see them ignoring that your passport was stolen when you have police reports, and I just cannot see them sending you to a detention centre under these circumstances.

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, I have heard some bar stool gossip that if you pay for a Thai elite visa, they are very careless with the paperwork and may loose the documents that say anything about overstays, bans etc.  

That's probably because they do not want to lose the 500.000 Baht they will get for the Elite visa, as

they don't give you anything in return for it.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, Tony125 said:

It has been reported before on this site that a dual national was banned for I think a year and cameback after a few months on a diferent passport. Had no problems getting back in. later he was recognised by people and was reported to immigration.  He was arrested for entering the country illegally and jailed. Reason , they told him  "you" are banned from Thailand not your passport. Makes no difference what passport or name you use  "you" are banned from being in the country.

I suppose that the same thing would happen to anyone on an Elite visa

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I think there is something here you are not telling us, I am no fan of Thai immigration, but I cannot see them ignoring that your passport was stolen when you have police reports, and I just cannot see them sending you to a detention centre under these circumstances.

He got caught on an overstay 18 months later , he had plenty of time to sort the situation out .

   Had he immediately got a new passport and gone to immigration to sort the problem out , he may have just had to pay any overstay fine 

[NoshowJones]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I suppose that the same thing would happen to anyone on an Elite visa

Yes, but they will still have the 500,000 Baht.

[alex8912]

4 hours ago, Happy enough said:

as the OP pointed out what happened later in the thread and you can actually get the 10 year BL(he didn't get 20) in just over a year if caught. maybe he JUST decided to join Thai Visa because he just got blacklisted and now is asking for assistance. No rules to say you must join TVF if you move to Thailand as far as i am aware

Maybe you are just a little gullible. I have done my research on some things you don’t bother to research concerning TVF and new posters. 

[jenny2017]

17 hours ago, Norbert Halfwit said:

A 10 year ban is for an overstay of 5 years. That is sure a slow passport service you received.

Not the fastest agent, roughly speaking. 

[anon789561]

Just now, alex8912 said:

Maybe you are just a little gullible. I have done my research on some things you don’t bother to research concerning TVF and new posters. 

yes, maybe i am gullible but luckily not sad enough to be doing 'research' on TVF and it's posters 555

i wouldn't read too much into your research if you can't even work out when an OP is on 20 years O/S or 10 when clearly stated TBH

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, greenchair said:

Dozens upon dozens of people have done it. 

It's in the papers quite often over the years. 

Immigration knows well about it. Technically, there's nothing illegal about it. The passport is legal, the name is legal, the visa is legal. It's kind of a bit of a conundrum. 

The passport, name, and visa are legal, but entering after being banned isn't. It's 100% indisputably illegal. If the OP, or anyone else, wants to try and get back in the country they risk being locked up for 2 years if they get found out.

 

Immigration Act.

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

[geriatrickid]

Recap:

1.  You contacted immigration to advise that your passport was stolen. You say that it did not matter as they considered you to be on overstay. How long was your overstay when you contacted immigration?  1 year? 2 years? 1 month, 10 months?

 

2. You were arrested 18 months after you first contacted immigration.

 

At the very least you were  on overstay of 18 months and were arrested. Under the current law which is fully enforced it is a 10 year ban.  There are no confirmed reports of a lawyer  successfully contesting a ban based upon the  above facts.

A lawyer who tells you that he can reverse the ban will only take your money and give you nothing in return. You need to wait 1-2 years before trying. You also need to have the appropriate financial requirements.

 

I don't know why you weren't using your marriage visa previously, but in any case it's not my affair. 

What I can tell you is that you should not try to enter. You will be caught at the border and you will be incarcerated and most likely beaten and or robbed. Go to Laos and meet your spouse there. It's over. You screwed up. Move on.le is very clear

[Suradit69]

5 hours ago, Happy enough said:

why you asking me? i already advised him his best option is Laos. shouldn't you be asking him

I wasn't asking you. I was making an observation in the form of a rhetorical question.

 

This is a discussion board, not an ask-the-self-appointment-expert board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Suradit69

[greenchair]

24 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The passport, name, and visa are legal, but entering after being banned isn't. It's 100% indisputably illegal. If the OP, or anyone else, wants to try and get back in the country they risk being locked up for 2 years if they get found out.

 

Immigration Act.

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

He would have a visa in his passport = permission. 

The permission is not expired or revoked. 

The revocation applies to the visa that is in that passport with that passport number. 

It's a legal conundrum. 

When was the last time you saw someone convicted for being on a changed name passport. 

Doesn't happen. 

[alex8912]

40 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

yes, maybe i am gullible but luckily not sad enough to be doing 'research' on TVF and it's posters 555

i wouldn't read too much into your research if you can't even work out when an OP is on 20 years O/S or 10 when clearly stated TBH

You don’t get it at all. 

[anon789561]

1 minute ago, alex8912 said:

You don’t get it at all. 

Correct

[Swimman]

3 minutes ago, greenchair said:

He would have a visa in his passport = permission. 

The permission is not expired or revoked. 

The revocation applies to the visa that is in that passport with that passport number. 

It's a legal conundrum. 

When was the last time you saw someone convicted for being on a changed name passport. 

Doesn't happen. 

Passports are not banned - People are 

[greenchair]

28 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Recap:

1.  You contacted immigration to advise that your passport was stolen. You say that it did not matter as they considered you to be on overstay. How long was your overstay when you contacted immigration?  1 year? 2 years? 1 month, 10 months?

 

2. You were arrested 18 months after you first contacted immigration.

 

At the very least you were  on overstay of 18 months and were arrested. Under the current law which is fully enforced it is a 10 year ban.  There are no confirmed reports of a lawyer  successfully contesting a ban based upon the  above facts.

A lawyer who tells you that he can reverse the ban will only take your money and give you nothing in return. You need to wait 1-2 years before trying. You also need to have the appropriate financial requirements.

 

I don't know why you weren't using your marriage visa previously, but in any case it's not my affair. 

What I can tell you is that you should not try to enter. You will be caught at the border and you will be incarcerated and most likely beaten and or robbed. Go to Laos and meet your spouse there. It's over. You screwed up. Move on.le is very clear

A person that I know  (not me. Really ).

Messed up and was 6 months overstayed. And would be on a blacklist. 

That person was able to get a new entry visa, followed by a marriage visa all from within thailand and all within the law. You obviously don't understand thailand. The law is often applied according to the interpretation of the user. 

It often depends on who you get on the day. 

No no no yes. 

It's a joke amongst the Thais. 

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, greenchair said:

He would have a visa in his passport = permission. 

The permission is not expired or revoked. 

The revocation applies to the visa that is in that passport with that passport number. 

It's a legal conundrum. 

When was the last time you saw someone convicted for being on a changed name passport. 

Doesn't happen. 

His overstay ban would take preference over his new entry stamp .

His blacklisting would invalidate his new entry stamp 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

A person that I know  (not me. Really ).

Messed up and was 6 months overstayed. And would be on a blacklist. 

That person was able to get a new entry visa, followed by a marriage visa all from within thailand and all within the law. You obviously don't understand thailand. The law is often applied according to the interpretation of the user. 

It often depends on who you get on the day. 

No no no yes. 

It's a joke amongst the Thais. 

Completely irrelevant , we are talking about the O.P. and his situation

[greenchair]

1 minute ago, Swimman said:

Passports are not banned - People are 

Well. I'm talking from my experiences and from what I have seen over the years. I do understand the point that people who have never had this experience are making. 

But for people that know this from a different perspective, it doesn't always work out as bad as you think. The Thais are pretty nice about things, if you get the right day. 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Passports are not banned - People are 

Yes, its like if they charged you with murder 

You could just change your name and say "It wasnt me" , "it was him"

[greenchair]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Completely irrelevant , we are talking about the O.P. and his situation

Same same but different. 

[sanemax]

Just now, greenchair said:

Same same but different. 

No, your friends situation is completely different .

[Just Weird]

17 hours ago, greenchair said:

She could divorce the previous name and when he comes back they can remarry 

Not without his signature and passport in his married name, she couldn't!

[007 RED]

OP….

 

Firstly, you will have no trouble getting a visa to enter Thailand from your local Embassy or Consulate.  All you need is the correct paperwork and fee.  Thai Embassies/Consulates do not have access to the Immigration database so they will not be aware that you have been banned from entering the country and provided that the paperwork is in order you will get your visa.

 

Secondly, it is highly unlikely should you decide to fly directly to Thailand that you will be stopped from boarding the aircraft by the Advanced Passenger Information System (APIS).  The airline will send your basic biographical (passport) information to Thailand prior to you boarding (normally 24 hours ahead).  Because you have a new passport and changed your name the Thai Immigration Database will not immediately match you to your previous name and therefore you will be given a cleared to board feedback code to the airline.

 

Thirdly, the problem is most likely to occur when you get to Thailand, and it does not matter if you enter via one of the international airports or by one of the land boarders as all Immigration desks are linked to the central Immigration database in Bangkok.

 

When you submit your passport to the IO, he/she will place the photo page onto a scanner which reads the information at the bottom of the page between <<<< >>>>.  This is your biographical information.  The Immigration system will immediately note that the passport number has not been registered before and therefore do a check against the database based upon Country Code + Gender + Date of Birth + Family Name + First Name(s).  Because the database will not have your new name, it will capture those records that do match you’re Country Code + Gender + Date of Birth, together with the photos taken of those people when they last entered or left Thailand.

 

It may come as a surprise to most, but the number of people’s records that match those three criterion (Country Code + Gender + Date of Birth) is actually fairly small.  If the number of records is less than 10, then thumbnail photos of the people identified are displayed on the IO’s screen so he/she can quickly scroll through them and do a visual check.  If the number of people that match the three criterion is larger than 10 then the immigration system does a facial recognition check against the photo that the IO has just taken of you.  The facial recognition system currently built into the immigration system is fairly basic, but will give about 80% positive results which again are displayed on the IO’s screen.

 

The time taken by the immigration system to do all of these checks against the millions of records held in its database is literally second.  Just think how quick Google displays a list when you enter a query into its search engine.

 

The chances are that you may well be recognised and pulled to one side for questioning.  At this stage because you have not officially been admitted to the Kingdom, the worst thing that will happen is that you will be refused entry and sent back to your home country at your expense.

 

If you do manage to get into the Kingdom and then at some later date you come to the attention of Immigration, expect that they will ‘thrown the book at you’ – a possible prison sentence followed by deportation and a further ban. 

 

As some have already pointed out in previous posts, you may have legally entered the kingdom with a valid visa and passport, but you as a person (regardless of your current name) have been banned.

 

FYI – The information I have given above is based upon over 10 years of experience working as a senior co-ordinator involved in the design, development and implementation of the E-Boarder project set up by the NSA and GCHQ following 911.  The E=Boarder system is currently used by most countries throughout the world, including Thailand.

 

For added information:  Although referred to a biometric passport, the information embedded into the ‘chip’ actually does not hold any biometric information such as finger prints, iris scan, height, weight information.  Neither does it hold information about the holder's previous names or criminal convictions.  The information that is held on the ‘chip’ is in fact a copy of the information held on the photo page of the passport (including the photo of the holder).  The information is encrypted and can only be read using special security readers thus making far more difficult to forge or tamper with a passport.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

A person that I know  (not me. Really ).

Messed up and was 6 months overstayed. And would be on a blacklist. 

That person was able to get a new entry visa, followed by a marriage visa all from within thailand and all within the law. You obviously don't understand thailand. The law is often applied according to the interpretation of the user. 

It often depends on who you get on the day. 

No no no yes. 

It's a joke amongst the Thais. 

There are fixers who can resolve long overstays for a price. A bribe to your local immigration office cannot do it, but there are corrupt officials at land borders who are able to arrange it. Getting someone off a blacklist is much, much harder. Only someone at a very high level has the power to do it. I do not discount the possibility that there could be a fixer able to do it, but it would be extremely expensive, if possible at all.

[hobobo]

21 hours ago, Keithsbd said:

Lawyer seems to think can get it down from 10years to 5years

But is your wife going to wait for you for even for 5 years?

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, greenchair said:

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

The passport, name, and visa are legal, but entering after being banned isn't. It's 100% indisputably illegal. If the OP, or anyone else, wants to try and get back in the country they risk being locked up for 2 years if they get found out.

 

Immigration Act.

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

He would have a visa in his passport = permission. 

The permission is not expired or revoked. 

The revocation applies to the visa that is in that passport with that passport number. 

It's a legal conundrum. 

When was the last time you saw someone convicted for being on a changed name passport. 

Doesn't happen. 

• A Visa doesn't give permission for anything. Permission to stay is denied or granted by the IO at the border.
• If a banned person were found in the country they would have any permission in their passport 'revoked', and would be subject to the fine and or punishment in section 81. As I advised earlier in this tread they would probably be fined and deported, but the possibility of imprisonment exists.
• There can't be many idiots that think a name change somehow voids a ban. So the odds on me or you knowing any of them are low.
• Changing your name isn't illegal so no one has been convicted. Entering a country you've been banned from is illegal. People found to be in the country illegally, however they got in, are convicted in court and deported frequently.

[thaibreaker]

20 hours ago, darrendsd said:

That's like being banned from driving for 2 years and starting to drive again after 1 and when caught using the excuse oh sorry I wasn't sure how long my ban was

 

Do you really think that is going to work?

Yes it just might. The stamp and message you get for overstaying in the passport, are all written in thai. No english words whatsoever. So you can very well go for the explanation that you thought your ban was over. 

[darrendsd]

4 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

Yes it just might. The stamp and message you get for overstaying in the passport, are all written in thai. No english words whatsoever. So you can very well go for the explanation that you thought your ban was over. 

So how does the OP know he is banned for 10 years?

 

Do you really think that giving the excuse of sorry I didn't know how long I was banned for is really going to wash? This will be after the OP has been caught because they have realized he has changed his name in order to try and get around the ban

 

Good luck with that

 

 

[YouYouYou]

Wow long thread. To the op: mate suck it up, maybe hope yer lawyer can get it down to 5 years. To listen to the advice here that maybe you can get back in, umm nope as you will be breaking the law once again, you the person has been banned and nope (as some sugggest otherwise) there are no loopholes. You put yourself in this situation and its caught up with you. Yep, move the wife out of Thailand and move on with your life.

 

Best of luck with a new adventure OP