Blacklisted for overstay. Name change on passport

[thaibreaker]

37 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

So how does the OP know he is banned for 10 years?

 

Do you really think that giving the excuse of sorry I didn't know how long I was banned for is really going to wash? This will be after the OP has been caught because they have realized he has changed his name in order to try and get around the ban

 

Good luck with that

 

 

The OP would most certainly know it is for 10 years when he got his passport back. It should be given back with an explanation. In the thai text you will discover the number 10 in it. But the whole text otherwise is in thai.

 

I am not saying he gets away with it and can enter, however he probably wont be punished further if he uses that card imo. 

 

I have also experienced an odd advice from the IO during my own ban (sorry to say). I asked if there was any way around my 1 year ban, as I had a wife waiting too. 

He told me just to change passport and i would be fine. Not even a name change.

 

Now, I personally dont think that will work, and never did try it. My ban is now over.

But that was odd.

[Russell17au]

Think about this. To obtain a new passport in a new name you must supply your original birth certificate which shows your birth name and your name change certificate which shows your new name which you have legally done by deed poll, both these names are registered on the chip on your information page of your passport because there is no registered birth certificate for the new name plus to try and enter a country now with all the biometrics (fingerprints and eye scans) that is used would be very risky. The decision is up to you but if you get caught it could be prison time in Thailand and then deported never to be allowed to re-enter the country. Ask yourself is it worth the risk of never being able to see or be with my wife ever again or am I better to try through a lawyer to get the ban reduced?

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, thaibreaker said:

The OP would most certainly know it is for 10 years when he got his passport back. It should be given back with an explanation. In the thai text you will discover the number 10 in it. But the whole text otherwise is in thai.

 

I am not saying he gets away with it and can enter, however he probably wont be punished further if he uses that card imo. 

 

I have also experienced an odd advice from the IO during my own ban (sorry to say). I asked if there was any way around my 1 year ban, as I had a wife waiting too. 

He told me just to change passport and i would be fine. Not even a name change.

 

Now, I personally dont think that will work, and never did try it. My ban is now over.

But that was odd.

I know several people that have done it. 

And you are right, sometimes the officer recommends it. 

Especially if you have a wife and kids here. 

It's really quite common. 

[greenchair]

42 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Think about this. To obtain a new passport in a new name you must supply your original birth certificate which shows your birth name and your name change certificate which shows your new name which you have legally done by deed poll, both these names are registered on the chip on your information page of your passport because there is no registered birth certificate for the new name plus to try and enter a country now with all the biometrics (fingerprints and eye scans) that is used would be very risky. The decision is up to you but if you get caught it could be prison time in Thailand and then deported never to be allowed to re-enter the country. Ask yourself is it worth the risk of never being able to see or be with my wife ever again or am I better to try through a lawyer to get the ban reduced?

No they are not. 

Only the new name is put on the front page of your passport. 

The chip only contains the information on the front page. 

[harrry]

If you do go to Laos remember being depeorted means you cannot transit through Bangkok.  You will have to get to laos by going to say Singapore.

[007 RED]

53 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

....  To obtain a new passport in a new name you must supply your original birth certificate which shows your birth name and your name change certificate which shows your new name which you have legally done by deed poll, both these names are registered on the chip on your information page of your passport .......

Sorry, but part of your statement which I have emboldened is incorrect.

 

All passports have to conform to certain standards set by the United Nations, in particular the information that they provide about the holder.  Up to date there has been no requirement for any passport issuing authority to provide details of the holder’s previous name(s) and to the best of my knowledge there is no intention to do so in the near future.

 

If this was the case, when a woman marries and takes her husband’s family name her previous name would also appear in her passport.  That does not happen. 

 

If there was such a requirement then some passport issuing authorities would have a real problem.  For example; in the case of Linda Wolfe, an American woman who holds the world record for having been married 23 times, her passport would require several pages in order to provide all of her previous names.

 

Also FYI – The so called biometric chip embedded in the passport currently does not actually contain any biometric information such as finger prints, iris scan, height, weight, distinguishing marks etc. or details of the holder’s previous names.  That may happen at some time in the future.

 

The chip actually contains the same basic biographical information that is given on the photo page of the passport (including the photo).  The information on the chip is encrypted and only special security reader will display the information held on the chip.  The purpose of the chip is to make it much harder to forge, or tamper with, the passport.

[The manic]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:53 PM, Norbert Halfwit said:

OK I am going back about 20 years here, before the EU single movement.

A friend of mine was busted for a 3 years overstay in The Canaries. His passport was stamped with "No entry to Spain" and he was deported. The thing was he was a partner in a bar there and needed to get back. 

When he got back he reported his passport "lost". A new one came but it stated on the passport that it was a replacement for passport number xxx. A month later he "lost" his new passport. Another replacement came , in it saying it was a replacement for passport number xyz. Passport number xyz was not on the Spanish watchlist and he returned 3 months after being deported.

Different country, different era but the Spanish were only intrested in the passport number.

In the UK two lost passports are a serious red flag..maybe leading to you being denied a third passport..

[The manic]

4 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Sorry, but part of your statement which I have emboldened is incorrect.

 

All passports have to conform to certain standards set by the United Nations, in particular the information that they provide about the holder.  Up to date there has been no requirement for any passport issuing authority to provide details of the holder’s previous name(s) and to the best of my knowledge there is no intention to do so in the near future.

 

If this was the case, when a woman marries and takes her husband’s family name her previous name would also appear in her passport.  That does not happen. 

 

If there was such a requirement then some passport issuing authorities would have a real problem.  For example; in the case of Linda Wolfe, an American woman who holds the world record for having been married 23 times, her passport would require several pages in order to provide all of her previous names.

 

Also FYI – The so called biometric chip embedded in the passport currently does not actually contain any biometric information such as finger prints, iris scan, height, weight, distinguishing marks etc. or details of the holder’s previous names.  That may happen at some time in the future.

 

The chip actually contains the same basic biographical information that is given on the photo page of the passport (including the photo).  The information on the chip is encrypted and only special security reader will display the information held on the chip.  The purpose of the chip is to make it much harder to forge, or tamper with, the passport.

Good info. I have visited countries where I had to give the names of my parents and grandparents....that makes your origins and identity pretty clear

[Russell17au]

26 minutes ago, greenchair said:

No they are not. 

Only the new name is put on the front page of your passport. 

The chip only contains the information on the front page. 

The new name is printed on the information page that is correct but the chip holds more information than you think, it does not only hold the information that is printed on the information page, the arrows and numbers along the bottom of the information page is also encrypted information that you need the reader to read it.

[Russell17au]

19 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Sorry, but part of your statement which I have emboldened is incorrect.

 

All passports have to conform to certain standards set by the United Nations, in particular the information that they provide about the holder.  Up to date there has been no requirement for any passport issuing authority to provide details of the holder’s previous name(s) and to the best of my knowledge there is no intention to do so in the near future.

 

If this was the case, when a woman marries and takes her husband’s family name her previous name would also appear in her passport.  That does not happen. 

 

If there was such a requirement then some passport issuing authorities would have a real problem.  For example; in the case of Linda Wolfe, an American woman who holds the world record for having been married 23 times, her passport would require several pages in order to provide all of her previous names.

 

Also FYI – The so called biometric chip embedded in the passport currently does not actually contain any biometric information such as finger prints, iris scan, height, weight, distinguishing marks etc. or details of the holder’s previous names.  That may happen at some time in the future.

 

The chip actually contains the same basic biographical information that is given on the photo page of the passport (including the photo).  The information on the chip is encrypted and only special security reader will display the information held on the chip.  The purpose of the chip is to make it much harder to forge, or tamper with, the passport.

It is nice to hear all about it from a professional immigration officer. I will have to contact the boys back in Australia and tell them that they have been doing it all wrong and that they better contact you to find how it should be done correctly

Edited April 18, 2018 by Russell17au

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

It is nice to hear all about it from a professional immigration officer. I will have to contact the boys back in Australia and tell them that they have been doing it all wrong and that they better contact you to find how it should be done correctly

He did spend ten years working on designing the actual machines

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

Sorry, but part of your statement which I have emboldened is incorrect.

 

All passports have to conform to certain standards set by the United Nations, in particular the information that they provide about the holder.  Up to date there has been no requirement for any passport issuing authority to provide details of the holder’s previous name(s) and to the best of my knowledge there is no intention to do so in the near future.

 

If this was the case, when a woman marries and takes her husband’s family name her previous name would also appear in her passport.  That does not happen. 

 

If there was such a requirement then some passport issuing authorities would have a real problem.  For example; in the case of Linda Wolfe, an American woman who holds the world record for having been married 23 times, her passport would require several pages in order to provide all of her previous names.

 

Also FYI – The so called biometric chip embedded in the passport currently does not actually contain any biometric information such as finger prints, iris scan, height, weight, distinguishing marks etc. or details of the holder’s previous names.  That may happen at some time in the future.

 

The chip actually contains the same basic biographical information that is given on the photo page of the passport (including the photo).  The information on the chip is encrypted and only special security reader will display the information held on the chip.  The purpose of the chip is to make it much harder to forge, or tamper with, the passport.

Not required doesn't mean not provided.

[harrry]

https://www.icao.int/publications/Documents/9303_p9_cons_en.pdf

[Media1]

On 17/04/2018 at 6:46 PM, Swimman said:

Mmmm  - You can try but you cannot change your nationality, date of birth or facial features. Remember also that attempting to enter the country illegally is likely to be viewed as a very serious offence. 

They can't do anything for a entry attempt. All they can do is refuse him. Secondly l doubt it very very much that Austrlia record the second name in any chip. From serious experience in areas l will not discuss..One agency has nothing to do with the other. 

His chances of success 90%

Change your name

Edited April 18, 2018 by Media1

[Media1]

On 17/04/2018 at 6:48 PM, jenny2017 said:

They're using facial scanners.

lol where l have never been scanned they probably can't work out the software

[Media1]

On 17/04/2018 at 6:53 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Apparently not enough to keep loads of foreigners from getting into the country (by land border crossings???) and later getting arrested for illegal entry in the series of raids that Big Joke and his police minions have been having in BKK lately.

 

Swampy and DM aren't the only entries into the country.

 

correct there's easier jumps for this gentleman 

[Swimman]

33 minutes ago, Media1 said:

lol where l have never been scanned they probably can't work out the software

Mmmm   -- Have you never noticed that camera thingy which is directed toward you by the immigration officer? 

[darrendsd]

4 hours ago, thaibreaker said:

can enter, however he probably wont be punished further if he uses that card imo.

Ok so you think he won't be punished further?

 

2 things will happen if he comes out with that line, 1 the I/O will laugh in his face, 2 he will be charged anyway, if he comes out with that rubbish they will try even harder to throw the book at him

 

Let me ask you this, say you entered on a 60 day Tourist Visa, you overstay by a couple of months and when leaving say to the I/O i'm sorry but I didn't know how long I was given to stay here, can you waive my fine please?

 

Do you really think he is going to? Really??

 

Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law, this applies to every country in the world, including Thailand

 

The chances of the OP using that excuse and it working are zero

 

 

[IsaanFam]

All the suggestions, why not just try it? Get the name change, board a plane to Cambodia or Laos or Malaysia and try to cross by land, either they deny you and send you back or they let you in.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, harrry said:

https://www.icao.int/publications/Documents/9303_p9_cons_en.pdf

 

Thank you for posting this link.

 

Some salient points in the context of this topic:

 

1. The ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) decides on the standard for the biometric information on the passport chip.

 

2. The ICAO decides what minimum information must be stored on the chip and must be accessible to airlines and immigration officials.

 

3. Each country issuing biometric passports is free to store whatever additional information they want on the chip and what of that information they want to make accessible to third parties equipped with apposite readers.

[thaibreaker]

5 hours ago, darrendsd said:

Let me ask you this, say you entered on a 60 day Tourist Visa, you overstay by a couple of months and when leaving say to the I/O i'm sorry but I didn't know how long I was given to stay here, can you waive my fine please?

What on earth kind of example is this? All of the above is written in english, so people can understand it. Enter before date and so on. No one can misunderstand that.

 

I`ll try again: All information regarding a ban is written in thai. All of it. It is completely impossible to understand it, if its not translated for you. I could not understand a word of mine, and barely found out it was a one year ban.

 

In light of that, you can easily tell the IO, after being away from Thailand a period of, lets say one year of an original three years ban, that you thought the ban was done and over with, or didn`t understand it was a ban at all. That is no laughing matter imo. I doubt you will be punished for that, just denied entering Thailand. It may at least be worth a try if one has wife and kids in Thailand.

 

Yes, "really"..

Edited April 18, 2018 by thaibreaker

[greenchair]

11 hours ago, 007 RED said:

Sorry, but part of your statement which I have emboldened is incorrect.

 

All passports have to conform to certain standards set by the United Nations, in particular the information that they provide about the holder.  Up to date there has been no requirement for any passport issuing authority to provide details of the holder’s previous name(s) and to the best of my knowledge there is no intention to do so in the near future.

 

If this was the case, when a woman marries and takes her husband’s family name her previous name would also appear in her passport.  That does not happen. 

 

If there was such a requirement then some passport issuing authorities would have a real problem.  For example; in the case of Linda Wolfe, an American woman who holds the world record for having been married 23 times, her passport would require several pages in order to provide all of her previous names.

 

Also FYI – The so called biometric chip embedded in the passport currently does not actually contain any biometric information such as finger prints, iris scan, height, weight, distinguishing marks etc. or details of the holder’s previous names.  That may happen at some time in the future.

 

The chip actually contains the same basic biographical information that is given on the photo page of the passport (including the photo).  The information on the chip is encrypted and only special security reader will display the information held on the chip.  The purpose of the chip is to make it much harder to forge, or tamper with, the passport.

I married and got a new passport with married name. 

Divorced and got a passport in old name. 

Married the same person and got a new passport in new name. 

Divorced again . 

But did not change name. 

Needed a new passport, changed name completely. Then remarried the same person with a different name. I have 3 marriage certificate and 2 divorce  all to same person (3rd time has been lucky ).

Over the years, there have been some eyebrows raised. But it is all legal and I've done nothing wrong.about 20 years later when the dust settled , I applied and recieved citizenship. I submitted all birth certificate, name change, marriage certificate, divorce certificate and criminal history. The officer was perplexed and asked about all the name change. I just said life can be complicated. I was not asked about it again as all the documents were legal and in order. And in fact they dated my time of residence and marriage right back to the first certificate and name. 

Try putting all that on a passport page. 

[007 RED]

17 hours ago, Russell17au said:

It is nice to hear all about it from a professional immigration officer. I will have to contact the boys back in Australia and tell them that they have been doing it all wrong and that they better contact you to find how it should be done correctly

Sorry to once again correct you, but I am not a professional immigration officer and never have been.  If you had read my earlier post you would have gathered that I either worked for the NSA or GCHQ.  If you don't know what these are I suggest that you Google them in order to enlighten yourself as to what these organisations do.  I will leave it to you which one I worked for, for over 40 years.

 

Please feel free to contact your Department of Home Affairs and tell them that they are “doing it all wrong”.  No doubt we will hear their laughter here in Thailand.  However, before contacting the DHA may I again suggest that you Google ‘Australian Passports’ to find out for what information is embedded on the chip.  You will no doubt be surprised to find that the information currently held on the chip is identical to that contained on the coloured page containing the passport holder’s biographical details and photograph.

[007 RED]

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Thank you for posting this link.

 

Some salient points in the context of this topic:

 

1. The ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) decides on the standard for the biometric information on the passport chip.

 

2. The ICAO decides what minimum information must be stored on the chip and must be accessible to airlines and immigration officials.

 

3. Each country issuing biometric passports is free to store whatever additional information they want on the chip and what of that information they want to make accessible to third parties equipped with apposite readers.

You are quite correct in your summary of the salient points of the ICAO document 9303 Part 9.  However, a couple of point need to be taken into consideration before quoting these as being ‘gospel’.

 

Firstly, this is the 7th edition of the 9303 document which is in 12 parts.  The part that is being quoted is from Part 9.  In order to make actual sense of the this part of the document I would respectfully suggest that it is necessary to read the other 11 parts so as to put Part 9 into actual context.

 

Secondly, although the document was published towards the end of 2015 and has been approved by the Secretary General of the ICAO, it has not yet been ratified by the Council.  To that end the document is still subject to further consultations and amendments by the Council Members.  My understanding is that the document is likely to be ratified later this year but it may be another few years before member states are required to fully comply with the mandatory requirement.

 

If you do read the full document you will note that Part 8 is currently left intentionally blank.  This part of the document will eventually give details of the implementation timescales.

 

As at this point in time the only information which held on the biometric chip embedded in the passport of over 160 issuing countries is the same as the passport holder’s biographical information (including the photograph) that is given on the page containing the holder’s photograph.  This is as per the ICAO recommendations in their document 9303 5th Edition.

[humbug]

On 17 เมษายน 2561 at 8:16 PM, Peterw42 said:

OP, I have heard some bar stool gossip that if you pay for a Thai elite visa, they are very careless with the paperwork and may loose the documents that say anything about overstays, bans etc.  

this is nonsense and should be left on the bar stool where it belongs

[humbug]

On 17 เมษายน 2561 at 8:18 PM, Keithsbd said:

Ive been told that also 

its a trash story who ever told you and the other poster. 

[jspill]

19 hours ago, darrendsd said:

Ok so you think he won't be punished further?

 

2 things will happen if he comes out with that line, 1 the I/O will laugh in his face, 2 he will be charged anyway, if he comes out with that rubbish they will try even harder to throw the book at him

 

Let me ask you this, say you entered on a 60 day Tourist Visa, you overstay by a couple of months and when leaving say to the I/O i'm sorry but I didn't know how long I was given to stay here, can you waive my fine please?

 

Do you really think he is going to? Really??

 

Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law, this applies to every country in the world, including Thailand

 

The chances of the OP using that excuse and it working are zero

In your example a crime has already been committed. OP simply attempting to enter hasn't broken the law yet. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by jspill

[jspill]

On 18/04/2018 at 2:33 PM, 007 RED said:

because you have not officially been admitted to the Kingdom, the worst thing that will happen is that you will be refused entry and sent back to your home country at your expense.

^ This. 

[darrendsd]

15 hours ago, thaibreaker said:

What on earth kind of example is this? All of the above is written in english, so people can understand it. Enter before date and so on. No one can misunderstand that.

It;s a perfect example because the OP already knows how long he is banned for, we know this because he has told us, I would also say it could be stamped in his PP and he could possibly have been given paperwork telling him how long he is banned for

 

The OP is well aware of how long he is banned for this will be because Immigration would have made it crystal clear to him  so again do you really think that using the Oh i'm sorry I didn't know how long I was banned for line is REALLY going to work?

 

Like a lot of "advice" on this thread it is simply laughable to think Immigration will actually swallow that

Edited April 19, 2018 by darrendsd

[woofwoof]

I'm speechless ,what happened to all the 90 reports you  did when you had your passport , if you followed the rules your over stay shouldn't have been much. Maybe a fine or banned for one year at the most.