Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[Bangna Betty]

On 5/17/2018 at 9:38 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Air B&B advertise the potential restrictions to hosts, if they are wiling to read and comply well them, all and good: https://www.airbnb.com.au/help/article/376/what-legal-and-regulatory-issues-should-i-consider-before-hosting-on-airbnb

 

I have used Air B&B a couple of times, once recently in Pattaya, i,e, we rented a 2 bedroom condominium, which was 20,000 baht cheaper than a hotel, with 4 kids I would have to pay for 2 or 3 rooms, or two rooms with 2 extra beds as allowed in some hotels, and pay an additional 800-1200 baht per bed on top of the 2 rooms, hotels are not family friendly in my opinion, so what are families supposed to do.

 

In a suburb of Sydney I rent a 2 bedroom 100m2 apartment with parking for a week for 41,000 baht, now for the same amount I would get a 22m2 room in a hotel in the neighbouring suburb with no parking, and kids can share the same bedding because there is no room for extra beds, unless you want to pay for another room.

 

Its obvious the hotels are playing big to shut Air B&B, personally if Air B&B gets the boot in Thailand, we will holiday at home from now on as I won't be supporting them until they make their hotel rooms family friendly, i.e. without the ridiculous additional bed charges, after all, you are renting the room, and they should accommodate you with the extra beds for your kids, what a rip off, oh don't get me wrong, can afford to pay for the hotel, but why should I when Air B&B is much fairer in value for what you get.

 

Hotels need to get their acts together, and personally I hope Air B&B is here to stay, the hotels on the other hand should become more competitive, that's how its done in the open market, and how the hell does a court have jurisdiction over how you rent your property, unless its in some strata scheme or by-law, you should be free to rent it out short or long term, as long as you pay your tax.

 

 

 

 

There are plenty of holiday serviced apartments around. Or get connecting rooms. 

[Bangna Betty]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

There's a lot more involved with this issue than the number of people at the pool.

Our condo is our home and lots of people work. It’s not nice to have complete strangers in the building all the time and is a security risk. Holiday makers seem oblivious to the fact they are in a private residential building and make lots of noise, including arrivals and departures at all hours. I also totally object to the demands made on onsite management (paid for by owners maintenance fees)  by short term guests.  Onsite management is not there to support an owners short term rental business.

[newnative]

24 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Must have been a very nice unit because there are 110 units for rent currently with 1 bedrooms offered much lower 13-15K/month and listed for sale averaging 3.8M.

The cheapest 2.6M to the highest 5M. Hard to understand what would warrant the difference, both decent views, same cheap spec furnishings. If you got in early and keep it rented paying 3M or less and full time at 20K/month that's one of the more impressive deals I've seen. Dog don't hunting paying 3.7M and renting for 13M.

    Yes, it was a nice unit with upgrades and seaview, since sold.  A quick look at Hipflat shows around 15,000 to 25,000 baht for 32 to 37 sqm 1 bedroom rental units.  Centric does have some small, no-balcony 28sqm units and those are the ones that appear to be around 13,000 baht.

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, Bangna Betty said:

Our condo is our home and lots of people work. It’s not nice to have complete strangers in the building all the time and is a security risk. Holiday makers seem oblivious to the fact they are in a private residential building and make lots of noise, including arrivals and departures at all hours. I also totally object to the demands made on onsite management (paid for by owners maintenance fees)  by short term guests.  Onsite management is not there to support an owners short term rental business.

One question, Did you know short term rentals were allowed by management when you bought your condo?

[JAZZDOG]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Yes, it was a nice unit with upgrades and seaview, since sold.  A quick look at Hipflat shows around 15,000 to 25,000 baht for 32 to 37 sqm 1 bedroom rental units.  Centric does have some small, no-balcony 28sqm units and those are the ones that appear to be around 13,000 baht.

May I ask price you paid, if off-contract and selling price? Seems like one of the better deals I have seen.

Edited June 26, 2018 by JAZZDOG
typo

[Destiny1990]

46 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Likewise, folks running a guesthouse for decades paying taxes and employing locals and working their asses off aren't criminals but they are being treated as such. Join the club.

 

Hey, I am all for it. People who buy into condos knew the game, hell many were quoted guaranteed returns 6-7%. That's based on daily rentals not monthly. Now they are complaining? Actually the guy made a 9/10 of one percent return because I rented 6 months and found a much better deal (come to find out Amari was charging 8.5/unit for electric) and he raised the rent and it has sat vacant. IMHO a much nicer unit than Base, Centric or Unixx. I cant answer why not, those units are offered for 2K / night and this was 2 bedroom corner 64m/2. Might be the location is a good walk and no baht buses.

Another issue is possibly there are restrictions on renting the condo units ST to protect the hotel portion run by the developer

Well if the amari hotel does not allows daily rental for these condos then they have to offer it in a daily rental pool..Anyway  we speculating now all what we know is that these Amari condos are dead like a ghost town sinking ship!!

[Bangna Betty]

23 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Should be up to each condo management to decide how to do rentals its certainly not up to u..

Absolutely should not be up to condo management - how would you ever be sure of buying an apartment to live in if you didn’t want your neighbours changing daily?  As a working owner who wants to live in a residence not a hotel environment, I am pleased with the enforcement of the hotel act. 

[RickG16]

Forgive me for not reading the 29 pages....

 

So.... if I sub let a room in a property I am renting on AirBNB, I could be in trouble?

 

Not that I am, but just wondering for the future.

 

Cheers

[Destiny1990]

6 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Forgive me for not reading the 29 pages....

 

So.... if I sub let a room in a property I am renting on AirBNB, I could be in trouble?

 

Not that I am, but just wondering for the future.

 

Cheers

Maybe yes maybe no.

[RickG16]

Just now, Destiny1990 said:

Maybe yes maybe no.

So essentially the legal process is still going on?

[Bangna Betty]

On 5/17/2018 at 6:54 PM, Spock said:

They are often full of noisy young folk partying. But mostly, as I imagine with Thailand, they largely cater to ordinary folk looking for cheaper and more informal short term accommodation.

Airbnb has caused big problems in many areas in Australia. Owners and lomg term renters do not like being subject to their buildings being used like hotels. Many places now have clauses banning short term rentals. And in some areas there are acute shortages of long term rental accomodations. 

[JAZZDOG]

4 minutes ago, Bangna Betty said:

Absolutely should not be up to condo management - how would you ever be sure of buying an apartment to live in if you didn’t want your neighbours changing daily?  As a working owner who wants to live in a residence not a hotel environment, I am pleased with the enforcement of the hotel act. 

You would be sure by due diligence and reading the convenience and bylaws. That would be the first thing I would verify is usage. If you were looking to the government to enforce it you know the activity was taking place, should have marked that unit off the buy list. Many buyers were attracted and even enticed by minimum guaranteed rental returns and now they have damages by way of non-disclosure. It's a two way street. Caveat emptor!

[JAZZDOG]

7 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

So essentially the legal process is still

21 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Forgive me for not reading the 29 pages....

 

So.... if I sub let a room in a property I am renting on AirBNB, I could be in trouble?

 

Not that I am, but just wondering for the future.

 

Cheers

going on?

Actually you could be arrested, jailed, taken in chains in front of a judge for operating an unlicensed hotel and possibly working without a WP. You would then bail out if you have 150K and have to check in to the court every 6 days until your case was settled. Happened to a guy I know.

[RickG16]

13 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Actually you could be arrested, jailed, taken in chains in front of a judge for operating an unlicensed hotel and possibly working without a WP. You would then bail out if you have 150K and have to check in to the court every 6 days until your case was settled. Happened to a guy I know.

Where did this happen?

[Destiny1990]

15 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Actually you could be arrested, jailed, taken in chains in front of a judge for operating an unlicensed hotel and possibly working without a WP. You would then bail out if you have 150K and have to check in to the court every 6 days until your case was settled. Happened to a guy I know.

But not if he is a thai airbnb player then its maximum a 500 bht fine..

Edited June 26, 2018 by Destiny1990

[stevehhd]

Well Airbnb seem to be getting all the flak which is gradually turning into free advertising for them.

 

 What about the hundreds of other agents and private advertisers that do the same thing ?

 

Anyway where are these tenants finding condos for rent ?  Google ? ( Does anyone go past the first page ? I rarely do )

 

Searches..... On google. Looking for Airbnb listing placement.

 

 

 

condo for rent.......Hua Hin.  Not 1st page

 

condo for rent.......Pattaya.  4th page

 

condo for rent.......Chiang mai. Top 1st page

 

condo for rent.......Samui. Bottom 1st page

 

condo for rent.......Phuket. top 1st page

 

stevehh

 

 

 

 

 

 

[newnative]

50 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

May I ask price you paid, if off-contract and selling price? Seems like one of the better deals I have seen.

We did ok but in hindsight we might have held it awhile longer.

[JAZZDOG]

17 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Where did this happen?

Bang Iamung, his story is on one of these forms about the raids on hotels

[JAZZDOG]

19 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

But not if he is a thai airbnb player then its maximum a 500 bht fine..

Actually he was arrested and went to court shackled to 7-8 other Thai hotel owners. He said he got off lighter than them. It's not what you think. 

[JAZZDOG]

22 minutes ago, stevehhd said:

Well Airbnb seem to be getting all the flak which is gradually turning into free advertising for them.

 

 What about the hundreds of other agents and private advertisers that do the same thing ?

 

Anyway where are these tenants finding condos for rent ?  Google ? ( Does anyone go past the first page ? I rarely do )

 

Searches..... On google. Looking for Airbnb listing placement.

 

 

 

condo for rent.......Hua Hin.  Not 1st page

 

condo for rent.......Pattaya.  4th page

 

condo for rent.......Chiang mai. Top 1st page

 

condo for rent.......Samui. Bottom 1st page

 

condo for rent.......Phuket. top 1st page

 

stevehh

 

 

 

 

 

 

All are booking.com/ Amari Residence/Base/Unixx/Centric Sea/View Talay6 plus many more in Jomtien. 

[Destiny1990]

22 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Actually he was arrested and went to court shackled to 7-8 other Thai hotel owners. He said he got off lighter than them. It's not what you think. 

Sorry but i’am going to call totally bull#hit on that..

u better stop ur lame fake stories!

[JAZZDOG]

15 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Sorry but i’am going to call totally bull#hit on that..

u better stop ur lame fake stories!

Before you call anything bullshit maybe best you get up to speed on the subject and not talk out your ass. First, not my story but one that seems very credible and I have discussed it at length with this gentleman. The forum was: 

GUESTHOUSES MUST NOW GET A HOTEL LICENSE--ANY INFO POST #150

 

Lots of guessing and speculating here, I have first had experience with this in Pattaya.

 

Forgive very long post, but hopefully it will help other business owners and clear up the confusion

 

I have been running a boutique hotel in Pattaya for over 8 years.

 

I was not required to have hotel license, only room for rent license, which i have, along with all other necessary licences, including tax receipts

 

Earlier this week, i believe about 8 tourist police officers, rushed in from all sides of the hotel.

 

They were grabbing and touching everything, asking to see "bayanuyat", i have all my licenses displayed.

 

They did not accept that , took bookings, along with price list, receipts and everything else they could carry away

 

I was taken to tourist police headquarters  where i was put in the big room along with another about 8 people.

 

As i learned later, they were hotel owners and managers, in total another 5 hotels.

 

Since about 16:00pm, to 23:00 pm we were held there, while officers were filling out paperwork.photo's etc

 

In the end, we were told, we are all under arrest for illegally operating business and now would be taken down to police station to be charged.

 

Once we arrived in police station, we were thrown into jail, general population, Not the holding room but locked up in the cells.

 

Through some "negotiations" we were given an option to pay 150 000 bond, to be released but still to go to court.

 

I had some good friends "assist" me, i chose not to pay 150 000 and stayed locked up.

 

My friends, spoke to his friends and with small token of appreciation, head prosecutor agreed to prepare court documents in the middle of the night, so i could be taken to court in the morning, otherwise its 3-5 days wait to front the court, meaning 3-5 days locked up

 

Will not talk about the cells, unless someone needs to know.

 

Head prosecutor, suggested i do not request translator and speak to court directly(my thai was good enough according to him and again according to him Thai judges do like foreigners who speak Thai and go more lenient.

 

Believe it or not, but this is exactly what happened, Judge was about 1/3 lenient towards me than towards Thai owners.

 

Anyhow, if anyone need more detailed information about the raid and arrest process, just ask away and i will share.

 

Now on to getting correct license.

 

Putting it as basic as possible, but no chance in hell.

 

The new requirements simply can not be met by already existing buildings.

 

Again i good friend with "good" connections, arranged a meeting with the "right" people and even with offers to be "very greatfull" it just not possible and here is why

 

So one manages to pass all the new regulations, such as parking, green zone, 2 staircases, sprinkler system (keep in mind cost of adding all of this is staggering) now comes the next problem.

 

Was building built with all correct approvals? if it was, great, were submitted building plans for hotel? Lets be creative and imagine it was so and all is correct, now we have another problem which is distance from the road and distance from other buildings.

[JAZZDOG]

32 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Sorry but i’am going to call totally bull#hit on that..

u better stop ur lame fake stories!

By the way sport, that condo you got needs a hotel license same as the Hilton or a guesthouse if you rent short term. Has nothing to do with Airbnb or any other OTA you use. When you sign up to host you affirm the use as a rental is legal. It's NOT.

I didn't BS you, you got bullshitted when you bought that condo thinking you would clean house renting it out nightly. Might serve you well to do a little more due diligence if you have a next time. Good news is you can make the same paltry profit renting monthly as you do short term.

[Destiny1990]

8 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

By the way sport, that condo you got needs a hotel license same as the Hilton or a guesthouse if you rent short term. Has nothing to do with Airbnb or any other OTA you use. When you sign up to host you affirm the use as a rental is legal. It's NOT.

I didn't BS you, you got bullshitted when you bought that condo thinking you would clean house renting it out nightly. Might serve you well to do a little more due diligence if you have a next time. Good news is you can make the same paltry profit renting monthly as you do short term.

I am not doing any daily rentals in Thailand but its not a problem for me if others do that. I am pro Airbnb.

U said the foreigner in Hua Hin said he thought the thai hotel owners would be punished more severe then the farang hotel owners that sounds very very fishy to me to say the least..

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

I am not doing any daily rentals in Thailand but its not a problem for me if others do that. I am pro Airbnb.

U said the foreigner in Hua Hin said he thought the thai hotel owners would be punished more severe then the farang hotel owners that sounds very very fishy to me to say the least..

Need to work on your comprehension skills. I said nothing and know nothing about Hua Hin. I clearly was referring to the post above from the guy who got arrested in Pattaya which you failed to acknowledge after you cluelessly said I was full of shit.

Now go back, read the tread from the above forum before you call bs on a subject you're too mentally lazy to research. 

[balo]

2 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

I clearly was referring to the post above from the guy who got arrested in Pattaya which you failed to acknowledge after you cluelessly said I was full of shit.

But its not verified information , only posted on this forum . I would like to see a news story about this. 

 

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, Bangna Betty said:

There are plenty of holiday serviced apartments around. Or get connecting rooms. 

You are correct, come to think of it, the place we stayed at for a week in Pattaya was a serviced apartment as we booked it through Bookings.com and not AirB&B

Edited June 26, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[Destiny1990]

7 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Need to work on your comprehension skills. I said nothing and know nothing about Hua Hin. I clearly was referring to the post above from the guy who got arrested in Pattaya which you failed to acknowledge after you cluelessly said I was full of shit.

Now go back, read the tread from the above forum before you call bs on a subject you're too mentally lazy to research. 

Ok the farang was arrested in pattaya not in Hua Hin my bad f but u said this: 

 

Actually he was arrested and went to court shackled to 7-8 other Thai hotel owners. He said he got off lighter than them. It's not what you think. 

 

That statement sir is just hilarious and then i don’t believe nothing about the fishy story..foreigners never get sentenced lighter then locals for a simular (crime) period!

[bkk6060]

12 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Anyone who truly believes Thai justice is bias against them to that extent should ask themselves why the hell they remain here. Go to the USA if your a white boy and you will be happy with the disproportionately number of blacks and latinos in jail.

Seems you are digging a hole now.

Some of is stay here because we like it and keep our heads down and do not act like idiots and have no problem obeying the rules and laws.

 

With this, your story does not sound like much fun hope everything eventually works out.

[tjg27]

Daily Mail UK 27 June

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk