So, What's With This 12pm Closing Of Pubs?

[chanchao]

As I work an office job most of the week I usually don't go out very late, but last Saturday me and my girlfriend were having some drinks in a somewhat traveller/tourist oriented bar. It's rather small and quiet, so easy to get to talk with people. But at midnight, everything had to close. I talked with the owners and according to them police have been closing bars at midnight for over a week now. Also some music pubs and discos have to close, like Nice Illusion, but a hotel disco like Bubbles was still open. (Though we just went home, we're getting old )

Still it would be nice to be able to finish a drink and conversation and not be chased away at midnight. Aren't there more urgent things to do for police in this town than be a grumpy baby-sitters chasing people off to bed?

Personally I'd be equally happy on my own straw mat near the river with some ice and some bottles of something, but still it would be nice to know if this closing thing will continue or not?

Cheers,

Chanchao

Edited May 16, 2004 by chanchao

[Axel]

Guess the recent discissions made every honest policeman insecure.

Again in Bangkok different rules for different areas, but pubs close 1:00 am at the moment.

Been early this morning, after midnight to Gulliver's Sukh Soi 5. There my feeling was not the cops want to send you to bed, but the patrons wish to come with you to do so.

Place is changing rapidly to....

a forget it.

[ovenman]

Perhaps the early closings are in advance of the upcoming mobile cabinet meeting in Chiang Mai?

[cm boy]

The answer I got when I asked a Thai bar owner was that it was because of some "big people in town" and that it was only for 1 week. Let's see how long it drags on for.

cm boy

[polecat]

My latest info is that CM has actually been (drum roll) zoned. So, Nimmanhaemin falls into one zone, Moon Muang another, Chiangmailand another, river area another etc. Problem is, noone (including bar owners) seems to have been told exactly what the zones are!! TIT

[sabaijai]

Polecat, that's interesting news, esp considering the gov't decided to scrap the whole zoning idea. Could I ask your source?

I'd say the mobile cabinet meeting explains it the midnight closing, for now at least.

Edited May 19, 2004 by sabaijai

[francois]

hi'

recent news from friends :

Saxophone bar had problem with MiB recently, had to spend a night at PS and pay a fine

Spicy bar that some might know at least from the name or reputation ...

has been closed as soon as opened by MiB and 10,000 Baths fine!

it looks like that more than an important visit, the law is enforced by MiB just like for regulations about helmet for motorcycle and belt for cars ...

Thai's new order!

the same friend told me that not later than last week, when the bar was closed at midnight, Loikroh was not really empty ... a lot of ladies waiting for a taxi

francois

[sabaijai]

it looks like that more than an important visit, the law is enforced by MiB just like for regulations about helmet for motorcycle and belt for cars ...

Law? The law says 1am across the board for bars, etc.

[francois]

Law?

hmm, sorry

I should have written what they have told to do for once .. and they understood, close the one that can pay, and get your bonus

clean a bit coz some oils are coming, do what you can, and show off ...

they did

[Ajarn]

Entertainment venue closing time debacle remains as clear as mud

Government, police and entrepreneurs all have different alarm clocks

Saksit Meesubkwang

The confusion over the government’s social order campaign to force nightspots to close earlier is just as muddled as it was from the outset.

In Chiang Mai, the entertainment entrepreneurs are doubly confused because the police insist on a midnight closing time, although the law still allows entertainment venues to remain open till later.

Chanasuek Noochai, assistant district chief officer of Muang Chiang Mai Office, met with entertainment venue entrepreneurs on May 12 to discuss the impact of changes to opening and closing times of restaurants, bars, karaoke bars, pubs and discotheques which the government is trying to enforce.

Santi “Tong Bossy” Pitikram, president of Chiang Mai’s Entertainment Business Club, and Naiyaneth Wairatchapanich, the club secretary, took part in the discussion, attended by over 200 entrepreneurs of entertainment outlets in the city.

This meeting was a follow-up on a previous one which took place five days earlier at the Muang District Office between the Chiang Mai Public Health Office, provincial authorities and police.

At that meeting, it was agreed that all entertainment outlets must close at 1 a.m., except those which have licenses in line with Article 3(1), that may stay open till 2 a.m. - particularly outlets in designated entertainment “zones”.

Contradicting this agreement, however, police have been ordering nightspots to close at midnight, “due to the law”. As a result, entrepreneurs do not know whether they have to follow Article 3 (1) or “the law”.

To add to the confusion, Chumporn Saengmanee, Muang district chief officer, has stated that the province announced a “zoning measure” of entertainment outlets. The measure, applicable since March 26, includes the setting of opening and closing times of entertainment outlets and emphasizes entrepreneurs must strictly follow “the law” since there were some petitions against outlets which did not do so.

The instigators of the suppression, the Ministry of the Interior, puts emphasis on its standing policy and urges officers to carefully monitor entertainment outlets on strict adherence to opening and closing times, prohibition on drugs, prohibition on minors in these venues, not providing obscene shows, the ban on carrying firearms in these venues, and whether owners have the necessary license to carry out their entertainment business.

According to the Royal decree on zoning, opening times for categories of venues governed by Article 3(1) zoning have been set for 9 p.m. to 2 a.m. and outside zoning from 9 p.m. to midnight, Article 3(2) from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. and 6 p.m. to midnight, Article 3(3) zoning from 4 p.m. to midnight and outside zoning from 6 p.m. to midnight, Article 3(4) zoning area from 6 p.m. to 1 a.m. and outside zoning from 6. p.m. to midnight and Article 3(5) zoning from 6 p.m. to 1 a.m.

At present, entertainment outlets are still allowed to stay opened until 1 a.m., except outlets that fall under Article 3(1) which can operate until 2 a.m. in anticipation of the ministerial regulation’s reapplication.

Meanwhile, Santi, of Chiang Mai’s Entertainment Business Club said that the government’s social order was a good thing because it could make society “ordered and neat”. Nevertheless, the new law that brings forward the closing times affects entrepreneurs’ incomes, especially owners of discotheques. The government and associated organizations should take this into consideration, was the feeling of the entrepreneurs.

If you can fully understand the provisions of Article 3 (1, 2, 3, 4 and 5) please see the entertainment operators near you - they need you! The commonly supposed idea that Thailand means the “Land of the Free” obviously needs total revision too.

[sabaijai]

There's confusion in that article (printed where?) in the use of the word 'zoning', I think. Article 3 (1/2/3/4) refers to different licensing categories under the latest sathaan bawrikaan ('service place') laws, referring to restaurants, massage parlours, discos, and bars. Thus there's no 'zoning' per se, just legal designations according to the licensed function of the 'service place'.

I have a copy of the new codes, in Thai, and they say nothing about opening / closing times. The general government announcement made back in March, however, clearly says its 1am for bars, 2am for discos and 24 hours for restaurants, nationwide.

That the police make up their own laws is nothing new of course. Most bar owners have neither the money nor the knowledge to make a court case out of unfair or arbitrary police practices.

But it's good to hear that some of the local entrepreneurs are meeting with authorities to try and get some kind of consistent and fair enforcement. In the end it's the relationships between business owners and the police that will matter most, not what's on paper.

Edited May 23, 2004 by sabaijai

[polecat]

Thanks Ajarn. Can't say I can really take all that in, but interesting nonetheless. A call to City Hall discovered that there are in fact NO new laws in place at this moment. The laws are currently being revised and will be put into effect upon completion. How long? They reckoned on 1 - 2 weeks. Pinch of salt please

[cm boy]

When I told my friends in Pattaya and Phuket they both laughed! Is this the price of culture or Toxin's 'suck it and see' policy, or indicative of his perceived political strength in Chiang Mai?

cm boy

[sabaijai]

I've just spent the past three days in the company of a Thai attorney who specialises in entertainment and tourism law, and who also teaches these subjects at Thammasat U in BKK. I told him about the midnight closings in Chiang Mai and he said the police must be confused (along with everyone else!). He insists that the law stands at 1am for bars with or without live music, 2am for discos, midnight for massage parlours and no limit for restaurants (but if the restos play any music at all, even the radio, they have to close at 1am).

I passed his phone number on to someone I know who's in contact with the local association of entertainment business owners, as he said he's willing to represent the association gratis. He says the venue owners should be asking police to show them a copy of the relevant act or code announcing a midnight closing -- if they can't do that than they have no legal way of charging anyone for staying open till 1am, as the current printed acts decree.

He also said he knows of no further decision-making process happening at the moment, that the government decided not to back the midnight closing proposed several months ago.

[Bar/GfreeZONE]

Hi

Could someone give me some tips on the zone/area to go for the ladies and a ###### good few nights out. Never been up that way before.

Chiangmai sounds great will be there for about 2 weeks.

Cheers

[john b good]

Hi

Could someone give me some tips on the zone/area to go for the ladies and a ###### good few nights out.  Never been up that way before.

Chiangmai sounds great will be there for about 2 weeks.

Cheers

 

Just get yourself to the eastern klong (both inside and out) and the general area and you will find enough to keep you occupied for a lot longer than two weeks.

From the above area you can branch out if you want (perhaps with a girl from the above area as a guide)

Edited June 3, 2004 by sabaijai

[chanchao]

It's not a klong. Klong is a natural stream/waterway. You mean the Eastern side of the city moat. (Koo Muang). And then specifically just South of Thapae Gate.

Never saw too many cats in that area though. (Plenty of rats though.)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[john b good]

It's not a klong. Klong is a natural stream/waterway. You mean the Eastern side of the city moat. (Koo Muang). And then specifically just South of Thapae Gate.

Never saw too many cats in that area though. (Plenty of rats though.)

Cheers,

Chanchao

It's not a klong. Klong is a natural stream/waterway.......

Not according to my Thai-English dictionarys it's not. It is a canal.

But I'm not gonna get my tits in a wringer over it.

[chanchao]

Klong I suppose CAN be a man-made canal.. but it's not totally 100% translation because I think klong always needs to be in an urban environment..

There are a lot of examples of English texts that talk about 'the canals of Bangkok & Thonburi' even though these are natural waterways, i.e. rivers, streams, etc. A canal you have to dig.

The city moat was of course dug. It is called 'khoo' in Thai. (khoo = "moat,small canal,canal around the house or town"

An example of a klong in Chiang Mai city would be the Mae Kha stream. (Argh, tempted to say "Mae Kha Canal"... Maybe the English language doesn't really care what the origin of a waterway is and just classifies any waterway in an urban envornment as 'canal' ? I suppose 'klong' has to be in an urban environment as well.. You don't find klongs up in the mountains or forests.

And where is Ajarn when you need him!?

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

Scratch the 'urban environment' thing.. The Panama Canal is also called 'klong' in Thai, as would be the 'Kra Canal' planned to be completed when pigs fly.

So.. from this would follow that klong can be either man-made or natural.. doesn't matter... Because klong Bangkok Noi and all those are most definitely natural.

Still, the city moat is a moat, not a klong!

[Ajarn]

I have no dictionary, but I think 'Huay' (Kham Muang) is the word I see used for 'creek' or other such small waterway (huaykaew= 'Crystal Creek' in western cowboy speak) smaller than a river, and in a more natural area.....I think

I think that if the small waterway was in an urban area, it's called Nam Muang (central Thai) or just Klong...

Any corrections would be appreciated

[john b good]

Scratch the 'urban environment' thing.. The Panama Canal is also called 'klong' in Thai, as would be the 'Kra Canal' planned to be completed when pigs fly.

So.. from this would follow that klong can be either man-made or natural.. doesn't matter... Because klong Bangkok Noi and all those are most definitely natural.

Still, the city moat is a moat, not a klong!

Gentlemen,

I stand corrected by all of you learned people.

I made the initial mistake of calling it a canal when it should have, as has been pointed out a "moat"

And in my "book of words a moat = "khoo" (but this term is also shown being used for a small canal, ditch) and in another book of words as "koo-gum-paeng-meung"

And as we know a canal is often referred to as a "klong" (or nam khlong)

A stream = "huay" (or lam than, lam huay) or from the second book of words "lam-tahn, or gra-sae

And a river is (but what the h*ll)

It can become all very confusing with the different terms Thailand uses (perhaps depending on the particular region) but to have a chance you need to start off with the correct term in English i.e. moat and not canal.

[sabaijai]

Just to throw a little more controversy in here, many of the canals in BKK/Thonburi are man-made, such as the one that created Ko Ratanakosin, along with Khlong Banglamphu and canals linking the Chao Phraya, Tha Chin and other rivers. In fact the stretch of the Chao Phraya River in front of the Grand Palace, Wat Arun, etc -- everything bordering Ko Ratanakosin -- is actually a canal. The original river flowed in a large curve to the west -- what is now called Khlong Bangkok Noi (originally part of the Chao Phraya, not a khlong at all). When they cut Khlong Rop Muang (the first name for the canal that's now considered part of the Chao Phraya) it changed the whole flow ...

Names for watercourses differ from region to region in Thailand. Major example is 'river' itself, called mae nam in central thai, but usually 'mae' in northern thai and 'nam' in northeastern thai.

Thus the Mekong River in centrl thai is Mae Nam Khong, in northern Thai it's Mae Khong and in Isan it's Nam Khong (with a completely different vowel for 'khong', i.e., ของ rather than โขง).

In northern Thai, the moat is called khuu wiang rather than khuu meuang ...

[chanchao]

> In northern Thai, the moat is called khuu wiang rather than khuu meuang

:-) LOL I've maid it a point to use 'wiang' more. Like when people ask where I'm going I'd just say 'pai wiang', or 'pai wiang, pai aew'