Another price increase for wine, it's getting silly now.

[gk10002000]

Man several years back, my buddy from the states would stay for 4 or 5 month stretches and he would bring over a big luggage suitcase with Big bottles of wine.  I wonder if one can bring in big magnums of good wine, if so how many before taxed or scrutinized?

[ukrules]

13 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Man several years back, my buddy from the states would stay for 4 or 5 month stretches and he would bring over a big luggage suitcase with Big bottles of wine.  I wonder if one can bring in big magnums of good wine, if so how many before taxed or scrutinized?

I think you're allowed one bottle, any more and it's a big fine.

[spidermike007]

17 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

TH and OZ do have a so-called "free trade" agreement.

 

The following is not about wine but ask how Australia feels about having its gold mine shut down by junta order without any discussions or negotiations, and no official replies to Kingsgate Consolidated's requests for talks. Thailand utterly ignored the injured party, which is now pursuing other remedies. Chances? Zip. 

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled topic . . . wine prices. 

When it comes to treaty agreements, trade agreements, and other policies agrees upon with other nations, Thailand is more or less a lawless nation, and an entity unto itself. The presumption must be that nobody will ever do anything about it, so let us try to get away with it, as long as possible. If they are called out enough, maybe they will change? It seems the only thing the government responds to is being shamed alot, on the world stage. A stooge is a stooge. A crime lord is a crime lord. A leader without morals, scruples, or ethics is a deadbeat, right? A renegade nation is just that. Law and order? Respect for other nations? What is that? Why even bother?

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

I think you're allowed one bottle, any more and it's a big fine.

One liter per person. And if you are caught, they can levy a fine of up to 100,000 baht, on the spot. Why take that risk? Why subject yourself to the customs worms?

[Dumbastheycome]

Can   whiners  be  bottled?

[DrTuner]

8 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Can   whiners  be  bottled?

No they turn into vinegar. It's better to bottle those with rose colored glasses and head stuck firmly in the sand.

[Dumbastheycome]

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

No they turn into vinegar. It's better to bottle those with rose colored glasses and head stuck firmly in the sand.

Aha!  Must  be the  content  of  the crate of  white  vinegar  my wife   bought today  ! lol

 

[moonseeker]

I don't drink so can not judge any type of alcohol quality or taste. It all is vinegar for me. It seems that Montclair and similar is sold in many places and obviously people drink it. How would you describe the difference between a grape only wine? If it is as bad as many say, why is is consumed in such amounts and such a big deal that prices went up? Is it also popular in other countries? Just curious... MS>

[Lucky mike]

Price !

[Fat Prophet]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:50 AM, spidermike007 said:

When it comes to treaty agreements, trade agreements, and other policies agrees upon with other nations, Thailand is more or less a lawless nation, and an entity unto itself. The presumption must be that nobody will ever do anything about it, so let us try to get away with it, as long as possible. If they are called out enough, maybe they will change? It seems the only thing the government responds to is being shamed alot, on the world stage. A stooge is a stooge. A crime lord is a crime lord. A leader without morals, scruples, or ethics is a deadbeat, right? A renegade nation is just that. Law and order? Respect for other nations? What is that? Why even bother?

What complete nonsense! Other countries allow Thailand to impose punitive taxes/tariffs on their good because Thailand is too small to have any effect on the overall quantity of goods produced/exported of all western countries -- the "benefit of being small" is that you get overlooked/ignored.  And every country tries to keep the price of their exports low and the price (including taxes and tariffs) of imported products high -- this is not a uniquely Thai trait. You really are looking through the wrong end of the binoculars.

 

There has been some threats recently by both the US and Thailand regarding steel imports, but consumer products, like wine, remain below the radar. And consumers in the western countries importing Thai made products get cheaper and relatively well made products, so who is complaining -- a Nikon camera make in Thailand actually sells for less in the US than it sells for in Thailand (go figure!). Australia has been pressing, on the surface successfully, for lower Thai taxes/tariffs on Australian wine, but there is fear that the tax/tariff reductions will be rescinded (which may have already been done, not sure) before they take effect or will be replaced with other new or increased taxes to offset the reduced import taxes -- protectionism is alive and well in Thailand. And the beer and whiskey makers are one of the most effective lobby/pressure groups in Thailand -- they have huge profits, and lots of money to throw around to have the necessary people "see the critical need for protection of a vital Thai industry (and the continued availability of expensive 'loaner' watches)".   TIT......

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, moonseeker said:

I don't drink so can not judge any type of alcohol quality or taste. It all is vinegar for me. It seems that Montclair and similar is sold in many places and obviously people drink it. How would you describe the difference between a grape only wine? If it is as bad as many say, why is is consumed in such amounts and such a big deal that prices went up? Is it also popular in other countries? Just curious... MS>

A very interesting post moonseeker, and I can only give you the answers as I see them, but I suspect they will be close to the mark?

 

Montclair and similar are sold in many places and the reason they were so popular is because they were cheap compared to other wines (and I mean those without fruit juice) and for that cheapness, one had to sacrifice quality, especially if one had been used to drinking reasonable to good wines in the past.

 

Having said that, there were some reasonable wine/fruit juice offerings available, and a couple of glasses at a time, for me anyway, seemed okay, but not something I would want to drink a lot of, because at one time I did partake in quite a few glasses and I did have a headache the next morning, which I don't usually get with red wine, but again perhaps that was me.

 

The better ones are, as one would expect, "fruity" and could be mistaken for a low quality wine from an area renowned for producing them, if one was not used to drinking anything better (and I have to say this carefully because I don't want to offend anyone).

 

As another poster has said, price is the main consideration and having said that, even now the 3 L cask of Montclair equates to a bottle cost of around 280 baht, which is still cheap, so no big deal in my opinion.

 

As for being popular in other countries, I did post an excerpt on the Montclair thread from a UK magazine which was lamenting the fact that these fruit wine mixes had found their way onto the shelves of UK supermarkets and that they were mixed in amongst the "normal" wines, which was a travesty according to the writer.

 

I have seen posts here which suggest that mixing various concoctions with Montclair, or with other drinks to make an alcoholic drink, is sufficient, but again in my opinion it is only sufficient if an alcoholic drink is what you are after, rather than a wine and all that goes with it.

 

[Jeremia Juxtaposed]

Out of interest I checked the MFD date on the stack of boxes of 3l Mont Clair in Big C - 12/04/18. Also there were no boxes of MC in Makro last night...

 

I bought 2 x 5 litre boxes from my usual place yesterday for 2010 Baht. MFD Sept 2017 - 9 months old...

[moonseeker]

Thank you for that detailed answer. As you mention, price and lower end consumers seem to be responsible for the "success and interest" in Montclair etc. here. Also I have friends who know much about wines and often drink real good stuff, but don't turn down a glass of fruitwine. Pity I never acquired the taste for alcohol... Or maybe better. Regards... MS>

[fforest1]

Any opinions on a wine fruit juice mix you can buy here called Very Pamp..Its a rose wine with juice..You can buy 3 liters in a box for 380 baht...10% alcohol.....It comes in a redish box with a big grapefruit on the label..

I was drinking laughing bird but was getting tired of the price increasing every few weeks it seems.

Very Pamp was better than I thought it would be but dont get me wrong I am not saying its good just slightly ok..

Edited June 8, 2018 by fforest1

[DrTuner]

The difference between fruit juice and wine is fruit juice tastes like fruit juice and wine tastes like wine. 

[xylophone]

12 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Any opinions on a wine fruit juice mix you can buy here called Very Pamp..Its a rose wine with juice..You can buy 3 liters in a box for 380 baht...10% alcohol.....It comes in a redish box with a big grapefruit on the label..

I was drinking laughing bird but was getting tired of the price increasing every few weeks it seems.

Very Pamp was better than I thought it would be but dont get me wrong I am not saying its good just slightly ok..

From the French word for grapefruit...…..pamplemousse.

 

So it's grapefruit wine!

[Jeremia Juxtaposed]

36 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Any opinions on a wine fruit juice mix you can buy here called Very Pamp..Its a rose wine with juice..You can buy 3 liters in a box for 380 baht...10% alcohol.....It comes in a redish box with a big grapefruit on the label..

I was drinking laughing bird but was getting tired of the price increasing every few weeks it seems.

Very Pamp was better than I thought it would be but dont get me wrong I am not saying its good just slightly ok..

I'm interested..!!

 

Where did you buy it..???

[fforest1]

25 minutes ago, Jeremia Juxtaposed said:

I'm interested..!!

 

Where did you buy it..???

Friendship....Some times they have it some times they dont...It seems to sell out pretty fast....

Edited June 8, 2018 by fforest1

[Jeremia Juxtaposed]

Just now, fforest1 said:

Frendship....Some times they have it some times they dont...It seems to sell out pretty fast....

Bugger me I stopped going in there yonks ago.....Might pop in tomorrow...Thanks....

[spidermike007]

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

A very interesting post moonseeker, and I can only give you the answers as I see them, but I suspect they will be close to the mark?

 

Montclair and similar are sold in many places and the reason they were so popular is because they were cheap compared to other wines (and I mean those without fruit juice) and for that cheapness, one had to sacrifice quality, especially if one had been used to drinking reasonable to good wines in the past.

 

Having said that, there were some reasonable wine/fruit juice offerings available, and a couple of glasses at a time, for me anyway, seemed okay, but not something I would want to drink a lot of, because at one time I did partake in quite a few glasses and I did have a headache the next morning, which I don't usually get with red wine, but again perhaps that was me.

 

The better ones are, as one would expect, "fruity" and could be mistaken for a low quality wine from an area renowned for producing them, if one was not used to drinking anything better (and I have to say this carefully because I don't want to offend anyone).

 

As another poster has said, price is the main consideration and having said that, even now the 3 L cask of Montclair equates to a bottle cost of around 280 baht, which is still cheap, so no big deal in my opinion.

 

As for being popular in other countries, I did post an excerpt on the Montclair thread from a UK magazine which was lamenting the fact that these fruit wine mixes had found their way onto the shelves of UK supermarkets and that they were mixed in amongst the "normal" wines, which was a travesty according to the writer.

 

I have seen posts here which suggest that mixing various concoctions with Montclair, or with other drinks to make an alcoholic drink, is sufficient, but again in my opinion it is only sufficient if an alcoholic drink is what you are after, rather than a wine and all that goes with it.

 

Good commentary. Some drink to get a buzz, some drink to get loaded. I drink for fun, and when it comes to wine, I tend to drink for inspiration. Difficult to even know where to start to describe the difference between a Mont Clair, a really good single vineyard Russian River or Santa Lucia Highlands (both California) pinot noir, a sublime red burgundy, or a gorgeous McLaren Vale Shiraz. Mont Clair is made to appeal to a wide range of simple palates, where people are drinking for utility, and not looking for pleasure or inspiration from the wine. There are literally thousands of wines that fall into this category. Most are in the $3 to $10 range in the US. More like 400 baht to 1,000 baht here. Simple, basic wines, without much substance, mouthfeel, balance, elegance, volume or finish. The better quality wines have those qualities, and can be quite profound. If someone falls into the category I do, who loves wine, and does not drink alot of it regularly, then they may not mind spending a bit more (I do in the US, but rarely here, as the prices are so stupid here) for something that is inspiring, invigorating, gorgeous, and sublime. Sometimes, the difference between that experience, and a bottle that is just ok, is only $10 or so, in the US, where wine prices are very reasonable. 

 

I am not in the camp that spends hundreds or thousands of dollars on a bottle of wine, but I do have some very wealthy friends that do, and I sometimes have the good fortune of attending some of their events, and partaking of these bottles. Some are absolutely spectacular. Some are beyond belief. Some are puzzling, and I wonder why on earth anyone would spend that kind of money on them. I tend to think that I can derive about 70% as much enjoyment from a really good 2011 Lucia Soberanes Santa Lucia Highlands, for $55, as from a 2003 Comte Louis-Michel Liger-Belair La Romanee, at $1,200 a bottle. But that is just me. I have relatively simple tastes, compared to some of my really serious wine buddies. Then again, I do not have their budgets either. But even if I did, I would not be spending that kind of money on red burgundy, even though I love it. It is just too overpriced, these days. 

 

I will attach a review of a 2001 Chateau Rayas Chateauneuf du Pape, from one of my favorite wine writers, John Livingstone Learmonth. Those unfamiliar with the heady joys of great wine will just poo poo this, and say it is nonsense. But, enjoying a great bottle of wine requires quite a bit of imagination, to be able to decipher what it is that you are tasting and experiencing. It can be one of life's truly great pleasures. 

 

classic Rayas red robe with a light top. The bouquet resides quietly, has a red jam fruit, low-key spicing. There is calm sun in the glass here, a tender and well-extended aroma that involves spice, cinnamon, cloves, cumin. The palate starts in a spicy, dark, smoky fruit offer. It builds its tannins as it ends, strikes firmly there. There is a handsome heart to this finely tuned Rayas, and it carries mystery and still unlocked potential. Decanting advised, it’s a real no hurry wine. 2032-34 Oct 2015 Previously Nov 2013 ***** bright ruby robe – this looks well. The bouquet is compelling – it gives a curvy roundness of spice, garrigue dust, thyme, plums, very ripe wild strawberries, tobacco and cigar box – what a mixed palette! The palate spreads its perfumed panoply with great delicacy, a true Rayas hallmark. A serene, textured wine from another age, if not another planet. There is a liberal scatter of floral, grain tannins at the end. It is all in roundness, with some spark to liven it, a 2001 imprint. The spicing on the palate flows around its mature Grenache heart. Long and fine, but with implicit southern power as well. 2031-33  Nov 2013  Previously Dec 2007 **** has the usual middle level red robe – its core being red, the top light. There is a white pepper-floral/rose mix on the bouquet, with touches of caramel notably, and raisin and sweet spice, maybe some stalkiness – it is unusual. The palate is restrained, if a bit limited: red fruits are delivered, with the Asian spice notes again. A wine of delicate tread, but lacks a middle focus. The texture is a big card – it is a soft caress, and the aftertaste of flowers and spice is long. It could be riper, but is beguiling because it so off the register. The flavour is scented, and it gains weight late on, expressed as a vanilla, spice duo. Runs on well with air, so decant this. 14°. 2022-24 Dec 2007, Copenhagen 

 

Also, here are some of the wines from some recent wine events I have had the great pleasure of attending. Some of the wines were life changing! 

 

 

[moonseeker]

Wow, we have some people on here, that know what they are talking about. Great!!!! Pity you guys need to pay so much for good wine 

in LOS. Enjoy it anyway.  MS>

[xylophone]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

But, enjoying a great bottle of wine requires quite a bit of imagination, to be able to decipher what it is that you are tasting and experiencing. It can be one of life's truly great pleasures. 

Yes truly one of life's great pleasures indeed.

 

And I have been fortunate enough to taste many of the wines pictured above, and I notice a Cote Rotie and an Hermitage, two of my favourite wines, although I have to say there have been far too many "favourite wines" over the years.

 

Having said that I haven't tasted too many from the USA, apart from a 1984 Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon reserve and a lovely Shiraz from Washington state, not to mention an aged Zinfandel (Brokenwood I think it was) which took on a completely different persona once it aged.

 

I suppose like you I've been lucky enough to taste some fabulous wines in my time, so I miss them now, but every so often I do have access to some very good wines and I am very appreciative of that fact.

 

I was also lucky enough to travel round France with a French wine merchant and we were feted with some fabulous French hospitality, none more so than at Château Lynch Bages where the owner Jean-Michel Cazes was a rugby fanatic, so being able to take him a genuine All Black rugby shirt really put us in his good books and we were subjected to a wonderful wine tasting of his wines and also some that he had lined up for us to taste in view of a forthcoming release of them, followed by lunch at his Michelin starred restaurant – – a  long trip covering almost a month and tasting far too many brilliant wines for my waistline and liver.

 

If there is one thing I do get a little "concerned" about is the way that some wine writers describe the wine they are experiencing and I have yet to experience what "crushed rock" tastes like along with many other strange and in my opinion, irrelevant, descriptions! Far too full of themselves IMO.

 

Anyway, back on track and as moonseeker has said, this place is not the sort of place where one comes in order to buy reasonably priced good wines, because they really don't exist here, unfortunately.

 

[giddyup]

I did buy the 2 litre Castle Creek red for 599 baht at Tesco yesterday. I can accept that price as it was around 450 baht previously, but it's when they want 700 baht I baulk.

[xylophone]

54 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Brokenwood I think it was

Try Ravenswood!!!

 

Another senior moment!

[DrTuner]

Some real aficionados here, hat goes off to you. I like wine because it pairs well with meats and cheeses. Very rarely drink it without a meal.

 

But if it was priced normally, say 300-400 per bottle of Jacobs, I might. With these prices no, better get Russian Standard Gold (the Russian invasion had a silver lining) and mix with fruit juice.

Edited June 9, 2018 by DrTuner
typo

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I like wine because it pairs well with meats and cheeses. Very rarely drink it without a meal.

Same, same DrTuner, wine with my evening meal and just about 100% red, and now down to 3 glasses or so per meal.

Every so often I get the urge to cook something "hearty" (eg. beef bourguignon) and break out a "big" wine to go with it, and savour the experience!! 

 

One of life's pleasures as spidermike 

Edited June 9, 2018 by xylophone

[Jeremia Juxtaposed]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I like wine because it pairs well with meats and cheeses. Very rarely drink it without a meal.

Totally agree ...I am not being flippant when I say I prefer wine more whilst preparing food......especially the veggies..rather than during.But that could just be that my cooking is crap.....probably because of how much I drink in the preparation phase......

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, Jeremia Juxtaposed said:

Totally agree ...I am not being flippant when I say I prefer wine more whilst preparing food......especially the veggies..rather than during.But that could just be that my cooking is crap.....probably because of how much I drink in the preparation phase......

Love it...……….5555555555

[moonseeker]

I always wonder how expensive wines get transported halfway around the world? Cooled or temperature-controlled? Non-shaking containers? Anybody knows?   MS>

[xylophone]

57 minutes ago, moonseeker said:

I always wonder how expensive wines get transported halfway around the world? Cooled or temperature-controlled? Non-shaking containers? Anybody knows?   MS>

Expensive wines are shipped in temperature controlled containers and these days most producers and shippers ensure careful control of their wines. As for the casks...…….not sure.

 

Another poster has said likewise somewhere on here...…………..