As Trump attacks, Canada goes to Plan B: same as Plan A

[webfact]

As Trump attacks, Canada goes to Plan B: same as Plan A

By David Ljunggren

 

FILE PHOTO: Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau takes part in a news conference in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, May 31, 2018. REUTERS/Chris Wattie/File Photo

 

OTTAWA (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump's blistering attack on Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has driven bilateral relations to their lowest point in decades and left Ottawa with few options for averting a trade war with its much bigger neighbour.

 

Trump blew apart a G7 summit in Canada over the weekend, blasting Trudeau as "very dishonest and weak" and raising the prospect of tariffs against auto imports, a move that would imperil the Canadian economy.

 

His unexpected and extraordinary attack flummoxed Canadian officials, who have waged an 18-month campaign designed to cultivate allies among U.S. policymakers and business leaders in defence of Canada's interests.

 

People close to the situation said they were disappointed the outreach had not been as productive as they hoped. The dispute weighed on the Canadian dollar on Monday.

 

Ottawa has promised to retaliate against Washington's imposition of tariffs on metals imports from Canada, the largest supplier of steel to the United States. But Canada would face long odds winning a trade war against a country 10 times its size economically and which takes the majority of its exports.

 

"There is a limit to what we can achieve in Canada. The only people capable of persuading Trump to stop this are in the United States, but they have not hit anything like top gear," said one person close to the matter.

 

In a sign of how limited their options are, Canadian officials said they planned to press harder with their U.S. lobbying campaign, focused on potentially sympathetic lawmakers outside the White House, while relying on support from allied nations and hoping Trump does not carry out all his threats.

 

Officials have stressed the two countries' extensive trading relationship and pointed out that Canada is the top export destination for 35 U.S. states and that 9 million jobs in the United States depend on trade with its northern neighbour.

 

On Sunday, White House economic adviser Peter Navarro, who said there was "a special place in hell" for Trudeau, criticized the government's outreach campaign, saying the Canadians should "spend more time at the bargaining table and less time lobbying Capitol Hill and our press and state governments."

 

Canada's limited options mean "there is no magical Plan B," said University of Ottawa international affairs professor Patrick Leblond.

 

NEED ALLIES

Trump and his deputies lashed out at Trudeau for telling a news conference at the end of the G7 conference that Canada would not be pushed around on tariffs - a point the Canadian prime minister had made several times before.

 

"This has to be a political play. They surely cannot be that upset about what the prime minister said," according to a second Canadian official.

 

Trudeau himself sidestepped questions about the attacks from Washington.

 

"We are not going to get involved in insults," said a person close to the prime minister. "We will continue to reach out and find people to speak to."

 

Senior U.S. policymakers such as House of Representatives Speaker Paul Ryan have raised concerns with the White House about fellow Republican Trump's trade policies, most recently the decision to impose the steel and aluminium tariffs.

 

Republican Senator Bob Corker said legislation would be introduced this week that would force Trump to obtain congressional approval before imposing tariffs on national security grounds.

 

But the response by U.S. lawmakers, business executives and officials falls short of the concerted and effective nationwide pressure campaign Canadian officials had hoped would be launched if a major threat developed.

 

A spokesman for Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland said the government had built "valuable relationships" in the United States, from the administration to organised labour and would continue its outreach.

 

One new reason for optimism in Ottawa is a new-found strength in numbers. Trump's steel and aluminium tariffs united the European Union, Canada, Mexico and Japan, which all vowed retaliatory measures. The countries coordinated closely on their response, Freeland said.

 

"Our economy is much smaller than that of the United States, which is why it was so important that other allies signed on," said the second official.

 

Domestically, Trudeau has also received support from all corners, and is backed by all opposition parties.

 

Trump's unpredictability and his history of not following through on all his threats lead some in the Canadian government to believe he might pull back from the auto tariffs threat.

 

"He talked about a border tax and didn't impose it. He's talked about pulling out of NAFTA but hasn't done so," noted the first source. "So we can always hope."

 

(Reporting by David Ljunggren; Editing by Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-12

[pegman]

There was nothing said or done publicly at the G7 to trigger this backlash. One has to presume that Trump got heat privately. This makes sense because the counter tariffs from Canada, Mexico, EU, China and Japan are aimed at Republican states and districts. Layoffs will likely hit prior to fall elections. Businesses like Mars, Heinz, Hersey, Jim Bean ( someone please tell that moron Jim Cramer that bourbon IS whiskey ) can't be too pleased either that they are getting hit too.

 

FACT:

"That services surplus more than offset the deficit in goods, giving the U.S. an overall trade surplus with Canada of $8.4 billion."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/11/states-that-supported-trump-would-get-hit-hardest-in-a-canada-trade-war.html

 

 

 

[blazes]

The thing is, the US has managed to get everything it wants from Canada for the last 100 years.  Washington calls all the really important shots.

So, the only difference this time around is that Trump is making everything more open....or, more accurately, revealing the theft of Canadian resources for what it is: an act of burglary.

But at the end of the day, Trump is revelling in the fact that the world reacts to Him and the chaos his tweets stir up.  He will sow ever more chaos just for the sake of it, as long as he occupies the White House.

 

Of course, it doesn't help that Trudeau damages Canada's cause by inflicting economic decisions (against pipelines, for ex) which are guaranteed to impoverish the nation in the long run.

[Emster23]

" Canada would face long odds winning a trade war against a country 10 times its size economically..."

Yes, but Canada won't be fighting one on one. Canada has friends who agree with them

Will look like farang v Thai fight. Farang thinks one on one, then Thai "friends" show up to tip the scales

[Classic Ray]

I often wonder why the US puts up with the massive taxes and import duties imposed on US products imported to Thailand, such as wine, bearing in mind the aid packages and the massive exports of seafood from Thailand to the US.

 

I quite fancy some Californian wine at a reasonable price now the box wine has been priced out of the market.

[Boon Mee]

Yes, it's time for some fair trade. America is no longer willing to be the world's piggy bank. 

[canuckamuck]

It's time to get the Canadian Navy to blockade both coasts and cut off the maple syrup supply.

[pegman]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Yes, it's time for some fair trade. America is no longer willing to be the world's piggy bank. 

What piggy bank? They are $21t in debt. 

[Roadman]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Yes, it's time for some fair trade. America is no longer willing to be the world's piggy bank. 

An American forking over taxes that go in subsidies to give American producers an unfair trading advantage over importers complaining about fair trade...haha....I can see where Trump gets his support from.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Yes, it's time for some fair trade. America is no longer willing to be the world's piggy bank. 

Such nonsense. In 2017the US actually ran a small surplus in goods and services trade with Canada. The vast majority of US exports to Canada face no tariffs at all.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/11/what-u-s-trade-with-canada-actually-looks-like/?utm_term=.c5decc24dc94

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

Canada has gained its independence from Great Britian 150 years ago, but in all this time it has never learnt to be independant, and especially when it comes to the United States. Canada depends on the United States too much, and I have been saying this all my life. 

 

Take Oil for instance. Canada Exports a lot of Oil. But when the Storage Tanks fill up in the United States Canada is forced to sell their Oil at huge discounts. Only to have our Brothers in the States load this Oil onto Tanker Ships and sell it at huge profits. Why?

 

It is because in 150 Years, Canada has never built an Oil Pipeline from Alberta to the West Coast ( a mere 1,000 kilometers) or to any Ocean to ship there own Oil to Japan, China, and the Far East..Yet have extensive pipelines throughout the USA and as far as Mexico. 

 

Canada has a way over abundance in Natural Gas. For the past 20 years the hottest market out there has been Liquified Natural Gas or also known as LNG. I recall Big Shots from Austraila (Santos) coming to Canada in 1982 and our Gas Plant, to see how it was run, as they didn't have any in Austraila at this time. Now Austraila has some of worlds largest LNG Plants and Exports many Tons on LNG to Japan and other Asian places for huge profits.

 

So how many LNG Plants does Canada have now after this 20 year period? Zero! For the same reason is that all there Gas Pipelines goes to the United States and as far as California, but not one to the West Coast and Asian Markets. But in the United States they have many LNG Plants, as they now can take Canadian Natural Gas at a huge discount, Liquify it,  and again send this on a LNG Tanker to sell this at a huge profit on the Open Market. 

 

It is because Canada has depended on the United States for most of there trade that they have become very volnerable. Trump may be many things but he is a Business Man First and when it comes to business he is not that stupid. He knows that if they stop buying Canadian Oil or Gas, when they already have enough of there own right now, what are they going to do about that? Do you think he is afraid of hurting somebodies feelings? That Trudeau doesn't like him? He would just laugh about that. As Business is just Business and nothing personal! 

 

Canada! You slit your own throat! So maybe grow up after 150 years and be independent! Heaven knows you have most of the worlds natural resources in Canada to do that with. From Oil to Diamonds! From Gold to Wheat! From Telecommunications to Cars! From Baseball to Ice Hockey! And on and on and on! .     

[dave_boo]

48 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

It's time to get the Canadian Navy to blockade both coasts and cut off the maple syrup supply.

If y'all pull the Tim Horton franchises the DoD better dust off the plans they have to invade the Great White North.

 

Just recently watched an alternative history documentary covering this entitled "Super Troopers 2". Highly educational...

?

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 minutes ago, dave_boo said:

If y'all pull the Tim Horton franchises the DoD better dust off the plans they have to invade the Great White North.

 

Just recently watched an alternative history documentary covering this entitled "Super Troopers 2". Highly educational...

?

If things got that bad with the USA, maybe Canada could do what it did in the War of 1812, and invade the USA and burn down the White House with Trump in it?

 

But I don't think Trudeau would get much support from the European Unon this time. But then....I could be wrong about that to. 

[dave_boo]

1 minute ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

If things got that bad with the USA, maybe Canada could do what it did in the War of 1812, and invade the USA and burn down the White House with Trump in it?

 

But I don't think Trudeau would get much support from the European Unon this time. But then....I could be wrong about that to. 

Yeah that's the bad thing about picking a fight with the Canucks. Can't tell them apart from regular American citizens. Second largest group of illegal immigrants in USA is Canadians. Guess we could go around punching people and see who apologises for being in our fists' way!

 

In keeping the levity up, let's all sign along with 'Weird Al'.

 

 

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, pegman said:

There was nothing said or done publicly at the G7 to trigger this backlash. One has to presume that Trump got heat privately. This makes sense because the counter tariffs from Canada, Mexico, EU, China and Japan are aimed at Republican states and districts. Layoffs will likely hit prior to fall elections. Businesses like Mars, Heinz, Hersey, Jim Bean ( someone please tell that moron Jim Cramer that bourbon IS whiskey ) can't be too pleased either that they are getting hit too.

 

FACT:

"That services surplus more than offset the deficit in goods, giving the U.S. an overall trade surplus with Canada of $8.4 billion."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/11/states-that-supported-trump-would-get-hit-hardest-in-a-canada-trade-war.html

 

 

 

I doubt it. Two factors. One is that Trump has skin like saran wrap. He is NOT a man. He is a pussy. Real men have thick skin, can take an insult, and move on. He has super low self esteem, due to the thousands of people he has stolen from, no doubt, and a single insult is all it takes to set this man child off. He is constantly insulting people publicly, and when someone does it to him, he cannot handle it.

 

Two. As Kudlow said, it was partially staged, to give Kim the idea that Trump was strong. So, essentially the thought process in this adolescents mind was, let us throw one of our closest and most valuable allies under the bus, to make friends with a murderous dictator. Nice work Don. Smart. Developing a relationship with North Korea is a good idea. But, at what cost? 

[spidermike007]

19 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

If things got that bad with the USA, maybe Canada could do what it did in the War of 1812, and invade the USA and burn down the White House with Trump in it?

 

But I don't think Trudeau would get much support from the European Unon this time. But then....I could be wrong about that to. 

Are you listening to Trump again? Sad. Canada did not invade the US in 1812. Canada was not even a nation until 50 years later. Britain invaded the US at that time, and burned down the White House. Please. Check out google. It is an amazing source of information. Whatever you do, do not reflect the ignorance of Tiny Don. 

[Rarebear]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I doubt it. Two factors. One is that Trump has skin like saran wrap. He is NOT a man. He is a pussy. Real men have thick skin, can take an insult, and move on. He has super low self esteem, due to the thousands of people he has stolen from, no doubt, and a single insult is all it takes to set this man child off. He is constantly insulting people publicly, and when someone does it to him, he cannot handle it.

 

Two. As Kudlow said, it was partially staged, to give Kim the idea that Trump was strong. So, essentially the thought process in this adolescents mind was, let us throw one of our closest and most valuable allies under the bus, to make friends with a murderous dictator. Nice work Don. Smart. Developing a relationship with North Korea is a good idea. But, at what cost? 

  Trump likes all of the attention because he thinks he deserves it. It’s never enough not because of psychic pain or low self esteem but because he thinks everyone should pay attention to him. Attention is fun and gratifying; it has nothing to do with self esteem.   Grandiose narcissism like Trump’s, have high self-esteem on average, not low, and the most aggressive people are those with both high narcissism and high self-esteem.  

[stevenl]

22 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

  Trump likes all of the attention because he thinks he deserves it. It’s never enough not because of psychic pain or low self esteem but because he thinks everyone should pay attention to him. Attention is fun and gratifying; it has nothing to do with self esteem.   Grandiose narcissism like Trump’s, have high self-esteem on average, not low, and the most aggressive people are those with both high narcissism and high self-esteem.  

Yes, agree with this assessment.

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Canada has gained its independence from Great Britian 150 years ago, but in all this time it has never learnt to be independant, and especially when it comes to the United States. Canada depends on the United States too much, and I have been saying this all my life. 

 

Take Oil for instance. Canada Exports a lot of Oil. But when the Storage Tanks fill up in the United States Canada is forced to sell their Oil at huge discounts. Only to have our Brothers in the States load this Oil onto Tanker Ships and sell it at huge profits. Why?

 

It is because in 150 Years, Canada has never built an Oil Pipeline from Alberta to the West Coast ( a mere 1,000 kilometers) or to any Ocean to ship there own Oil to Japan, China, and the Far East..Yet have extensive pipelines throughout the USA and as far as Mexico. 

 

Canada has a way over abundance in Natural Gas. For the past 20 years the hottest market out there has been Liquified Natural Gas or also known as LNG. I recall Big Shots from Austraila (Santos) coming to Canada in 1982 and our Gas Plant, to see how it was run, as they didn't have any in Austraila at this time. Now Austraila has some of worlds largest LNG Plants and Exports many Tons on LNG to Japan and other Asian places for huge profits.

 

So how many LNG Plants does Canada have now after this 20 year period? Zero! For the same reason is that all there Gas Pipelines goes to the United States and as far as California, but not one to the West Coast and Asian Markets. But in the United States they have many LNG Plants, as they now can take Canadian Natural Gas at a huge discount, Liquify it,  and again send this on a LNG Tanker to sell this at a huge profit on the Open Market. 

 

It is because Canada has depended on the United States for most of there trade that they have become very volnerable. Trump may be many things but he is a Business Man First and when it comes to business he is not that stupid. He knows that if they stop buying Canadian Oil or Gas, when they already have enough of there own right now, what are they going to do about that? Do you think he is afraid of hurting somebodies feelings? That Trudeau doesn't like him? He would just laugh about that. As Business is just Business and nothing personal! 

 

Canada! You slit your own throat! So maybe grow up after 150 years and be independent! Heaven knows you have most of the worlds natural resources in Canada to do that with. From Oil to Diamonds! From Gold to Wheat! From Telecommunications to Cars! From Baseball to Ice Hockey! And on and on and on! .     

Yes, I remember arguing with my Canadian cousins back in 2004/2005 at a time the US Congress was placing or threatening to place duties on imports of Canadian timber ('lumber'). I pointed out that the whole world was short of timber - Japan, China, Korea, India, Europe ... - and Canada had it in abundance. So how come the Yanks had them over a barrel instead of the other way round?

 

My cousins agreed that Canada had perhaps become complacent & lazy ...

[Beats56]

Trumps own GOP were not happy with Trump at the G7. American citizens are tweeting a appolgy to Canadians for their presidents behavior.

 

[Beats56]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Are you listening to Trump again? Sad. Canada did not invade the US in 1812. Canada was not even a nation until 50 years later. Britain invaded the US at that time, and burned down the White House. Please. Check out google. It is an amazing source of information. Whatever you do, do not reflect the ignorance of Tiny Don. 

British...where do think.the majority of people came from in the USA and Canada back then. Canada still has ties in their Parliament to Britons. The head of state in Canada is the Queen. Weather they are called British or Canadian in 1812 it doesn't matter.

 

 

[evadgib]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44446008

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 hours ago, dave_boo said:

Yeah that's the bad thing about picking a fight with the Canucks. Can't tell them apart from regular American citizens. Second largest group of illegal immigrants in USA is Canadians. Guess we could go around punching people and see who apologises for being in our fists' way!

 

In keeping the levity up, let's all sign along with 'Weird Al'.

 

 

Canadians being IIlegal Immigrants in the USA? 

 

Do you mean the Canadian Snow Birds that go to Florida every Winter and have a Income Tax Ageement with the USA, where they pay there fare share of Income Taxes to the USA?

 

Maybe your memory doesn't go back this far, but do you remember the Vietnam War? Take one guess where the Draft Doggers went to to avoid being Drafted? 

 

To me the USA has always been like a Big Brother and I would never want to hit one of them. But Brothers have differences and even the best of the best will fight over  a Will.  

[bristolboy]

34 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Canadians being IIlegal Immigrants in the USA? 

 

Do you mean the Canadian Snow Birds that go to Florida every Winter and have a Income Tax Ageement with the USA, where they pay there fare share of Income Taxes to the USA?

 

Maybe your memory doesn't go back this far, but do you remember the Vietnam War? Take one guess where the Draft Doggers went to to avoid being Drafted? 

 

To me the USA has always been like a Big Brother and I would never want to hit one of them. But Brothers have differences and even the best of the best will fight over  a Will.  

No, he doesn't mean the snowbirds. He might mean, for example

 

"It seems that an army of Canadian citizens — despite coming from a place of relative affluence and opportunity – live illicitly in the U.S. One research institute estimates the total at 100,000, while a recent American government report said nearly that many Canadians outstayed their legal welcome — and failed to leave – in one year alone."

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/northern-aliens-around-100000-canadians-live-under-the-radar-in-u-s-as-illegal-immigrants

[korkenzieher]

Nothing quite like a good shake on the cage of political consensus first thing on a Monday. ?

[VocalNeal]

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Canada had perhaps become complacent & lazy ...

...and I thought it was a nice place with mountains and lakes and.... If it wasn't already taken I'd call it a green and pleasant land. 

 

It would be interesting to know who owns all the big steel and aluminium companies etc..

Edited June 12, 2018 by VocalNeal

[bristolboy]

32 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

...and I thought it was a nice place with mountains and lakes and.... If it wasn't already taken I'd call it a green and pleasant land. 

 

It would be interesting to know who owns all the big steel and aluminium companies etc..

You can actually look this stuff up via something called the internet.

[Ulic]

8 hours ago, bristolboy said:

No, he doesn't mean the snowbirds. He might mean, for example

 

"It seems that an army of Canadian citizens — despite coming from a place of relative affluence and opportunity – live illicitly in the U.S. One research institute estimates the total at 100,000, while a recent American government report said nearly that many Canadians outstayed their legal welcome — and failed to leave – in one year alone."

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/northern-aliens-around-100000-canadians-live-under-the-radar-in-u-s-as-illegal-immigrants

Yes, but with the US having an estimated 13 million illegal immigrants I highly doubt Canada with an estimated 100,000 is second. Yes, I do know a couple of Canadians who have overstayed there time in the US as I know even more Americans illegally in Canada. 

[Ulic]

9 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Yes, I remember arguing with my Canadian cousins back in 2004/2005 at a time the US Congress was placing or threatening to place duties on imports of Canadian timber ('lumber'). I pointed out that the whole world was short of timber - Japan, China, Korea, India, Europe ... - and Canada had it in abundance. So how come the Yanks had them over a barrel instead of the other way round?

 

My cousins agreed that Canada had perhaps become complacent & lazy ...

And here lies the problem of the American bully. Three times the US has placed big tariffs on Canadian lumber. Three times the Canadians have won in arbitration. It takes years and costs millions of dollars. Canada appeases the US with a quota restriction. American logging has deep pockets and effective lobbyists. That said Canada has shown poor foresight and is far too reliant on the US. A second pipeline needs to be built next to the existing one. The energy east pipeline needs to also be approved and built. An oil refinery plant, and twinning of railroad tracks East- West to transport exports to Asia. Tredeau is a silver spoon trust fund baby as is his wife. Only concerned with being liked and re-elected. He does not have the balls or foresight to push through the controversial  projects. Shame on him.

[dave_boo]

7 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Canadians being IIlegal Immigrants in the USA? 

 

Do you mean the Canadian Snow Birds that go to Florida every Winter and have a Income Tax Ageement with the USA, where they pay there fare share of Income Taxes to the USA?

 

Maybe your memory doesn't go back this far, but do you remember the Vietnam War? Take one guess where the Draft Doggers went to to avoid being Drafted? 

 

To me the USA has always been like a Big Brother and I would never want to hit one of them. But Brothers have differences and even the best of the best will fight over  a Will.  

My post was tongue in cheek. Other than those Canadians that even other Canadians just tolerate they're great people. 

 

Numbers are kind of my thing. There are 193 nations in the UN. One of those provides over 50% of the illegal immigrants to the US. So 191 have to provide the remaining. If the distribution was equal, there would be ~34,000 from each of the countries. Obviously countries like Mongolia won't be fairly represented so it should be obvious that a country sharing a land border will take up the slack. Think of it this way; if there's a liter of cola and I take 500 ml and leave the rest for 10 people than you taking 55 ml, which is a really small portion, makes you the second largest consumer.

 

As an aside, I wish that the whole of the world was as amicable as Canada and the US is. Just the snowbird example you listed being applied across the board would make life better.

 

And nope, my memory doesn't go that far back as I was born nearly a decade after that war.