Testosterone, steroids, etc.

[mokwit]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

But why it needs to change to Subq injections  if the dose becomes smaller? Why not ordinary  IM injections of 60 mg twice a week?

There is no need to change to SubQ if injecting smaller amounts, but if you are injecting intramuscularly frequently you will build up scar tissue.

 

SubQ has to be in smaller amounts - I think the limit to how much can be injected subQ is .5ml, maybe only .25ml. The advantage of SubQ is that the injection mixes with the subQ fat and releases more slowly and thus less oestrogen spiking and smoother levels - plus scar tissue in skin less of an issue than in muscle - can use a small short needle e.g insulin needle for subQ, so I would guess less painful? You are sticking a tiny needle into the skin vs a long thick needle deep into the muscle.

Edited August 3, 2018 by mokwit

[mokwit]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

So if i want to test my estrogen levels what do i need to tell the lab to measure?

Rather than specify a ‘sensitive’ assay, it might be less liable to be misunderstood is it is stress that the sample is from a male and oestrogen must be tested accordingly.

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, faraday said:

I'm sure mokwit will give a detailed & better explanation.

 

Just regurgitating from my own research for myself in the hope it will be of help to others. Disclaimer: -  not claiming to be an expert and am not medically qualified. That said, a B.Sc in neurophysiology/phamacology/endocrinology gives me a firmer base for understanding  than I would have otherwise.

Quote

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by mokwit

[faraday]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Just regurgitating from my own research for myself in the hope it will be of help to others. Disclaimer: -  not claiming to be an expert and am not medically qualified. That said, a B.Sc in neurophysiology/phamacology/endocrinology gives me a firmer base for understanding  than I would have otherwise.

 

I wasn't being sarcastic mate, you do explain things on this thread, very clearly.

 

Neuro background..?..I've performed many EMG studies, but a looong time ago. ?

[mokwit]

Faraday,

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

 

RE: 'I wasn't being sarcastic mate, you do explain things on this thread, very clearly.'

 

No suggestion that you were having a go at me, although looking at what I wrote it was perhaps not unreasonable for you to assume my reply was in response to that suspicion  - just thought I would clarify where I was coming from in terms of knowledge lest people assume I have more knowledge than I actually do.

 

BS.c was 30yrs ago and I am sure they have invented all kinds of new hormones and bits of the body since then.

Edited August 3, 2018 by mokwit

[Hummin]

On 8/2/2018 at 7:58 AM, faraday said:

Testosterone level is good, but E2 is too high.

 

Need to bring the E2 down as hyku says.

 

If it was me, I would consider Arimdex. Get another blood test next week, see how it is.

Seems like I can get Nolvadex here where I am now, but Arimdex not easy to get. 

 

Nolvadex a good solution on trt? I see there is different opinions about using Nolvadex. 

[vinegarbase]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Seems like I can get Nolvadex here where I am now, but Arimdex not easy to get. 

 

Nolvadex a good solution on trt? I see there is different opinions about using Nolvadex. 

Good luck finding Arimidex in Thailand. I am sure you can find it somewhere but I haven't found. Nolvadex is ok as an anti estrogen but you want to pair it with an aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin, this will help boost your bodies natural test production. You should also check your prolactin levels. If they are too high you may want to consider adding some Cabergoline in that as well. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by vinegarbase

[ncc1701d]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Seems like I can get Nolvadex here where I am now, but Arimdex not easy to get. 

 

Nolvadex a good solution on trt? I see there is different opinions about using Nolvadex. 

The AI I use is called “Anastrol”. Need a pill cutter to split it into quarters. 

 

I have found nolvadex great. I’ve just started another cycle of 400mg/week which is higher than trt, but definitely not close to “trying to get huge”. While on cycle I will take 20mg of Nolvadex as required (so, depending on how you personally react to trt with side effects, your intake will vary. And sides will be more prevalent with higher body fat percentages). 

 

There is a generic form of nolvadex at a cheaper price that I’m trying. Will try and get the name of it...

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

The AI I use is called “Anastrol”. Need a pill cutter to split it into quarters. 

 

I have found nolvadex great. I’ve just started another cycle of 400mg/week which is higher than trt, but definitely not close to “trying to get huge”. While on cycle I will take 20mg of Nolvadex as required (so, depending on how you personally react to trt with side effects, your intake will vary. And sides will be more prevalent with higher body fat percentages). 

 

There is a generic form of nolvadex at a cheaper price that I’m trying. Will try and get the name of it...

I got hold of a box of this now to 3 700,- baht 50 tablets 1mg. Can anyone verify it is the real thing? 

 

I read some take it monday-wednesday-friday, and it would be easier to rely to than cut them in querters? 

[ncc1701d]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

I got hold of a box of this now to 3 700,- baht 50 tablets 1mg. Can anyone verify it is the real thing? 

 

I read some take it monday-wednesday-friday, and it would be easier to rely to than cut them in querters? 

 

I can't say I've seen that AI before, but don't see why it wouldn't be legit. AI is very potent. Even with my modest cycle I only take 0.25mg twice a week. You don't want to block it completely as you still need it to function. 

 

Here's 2 interesting links: 

https://moreplatesmoredates.com/aromatase-inhibitor-while-on-steroids/

https://moreplatesmoredates.com/pct-and-ais-for-sarm-cycles/

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

Get a pill cutter. You may be able to get a better price if you shop around. For example: Similar generics can be bought in Pattaya for 1000 baht per 30 pill package.

If Im going to end up in a dosage of 2-3 quarters a week, I will be good for awhile with this box. If you have pictures or links of simular generics I would like to see if possible. 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

You don't want to go too low:

https://mantalityhealth.com/the-symptoms-of-low-estrogen-levels-in-men/

I read it takes up to 8 weeks to get resoults? 

 

I will do follow up tests every two weeks between my T-shots, and see how my progress is. And use about one mg a week to start with. Any comments?

[Hummin]

Pill splitter/cutter they have at Boots or other pharmacias? 

[Hummin]

Estrogen blood test resoults takes just two days, but bringing your e2 level down from 104 pg/ml will take some time? My nuts shrinked on first Nebido, but I have kept my libido strong, and my e levels have been good until I changed for Enathate 250mg now, after 10 weeks since last nebido shot. I have used BKK hospital all the way, and they have only recorded som high cholestrol before, and everything else have been very good. I started treatment almost two years ago on Testo Caps, and then Nebido. 

6 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

Estrogen results should only take a few days.

Establishing the optimal dose via blood test results is a good plan.

Caution is the operative word. When guys get it wrong, they can turn in to weeping depressives - or angry head cases.

If your nuts start to shrink, ask questions about HPTA suppression/shutdown on the bodybuilding forums.

Another warning sign is erectile disfunction.

 

[Destiny1990]

 

I just read this on another site : 

 

starting with a slightly lower dose. I take 75mg of test enanthate per week injected split into 3 micro doses. This has brought my test up from 500 to 900-950. And because of the very small 25mg doses hardly any of the test converts to estrogen, no anti-e's required. I'm a bjj/westling guy and having my test up to maximal physiological range is just amazing. 

 

If the above is really true then why dont all TRT guys follow this protocol?

 

also to protect his nuts he takes the following supplements: fulvic acid, humanofort, bulgarian tribulus/daa and six raw eggs per day. According to him his balls are actuallybigger size as before TRT.

[Hummin]

5 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

 

I just read this on another site : 

 

starting with a slightly lower dose. I take 75mg of test enanthate per week injected split into 3 micro doses. This has brought my test up from 500 to 900-950. And because of the very small 25mg doses hardly any of the test converts to estrogen, no anti-e's required. I'm a bjj/westling guy and having my test up to maximal physiological range is just amazing. 

 

If the above is really true then why dont all TRT guys follow this protocol?

 

also to protect his nuts he takes the following supplements: fulvic acid, humanofort, bulgarian tribulus/daa and six raw eggs per day. According to him his balls are actuallybigger size as before TRT.

We need clinicle test proof, and not just som randem self individual experiences. I need some time to get the whole essens and what is proven facts. I realize trt can be a lucky shot over long time use for some, and other not.

[faraday]

5 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

 

I just read this on another site : 

 

starting with a slightly lower dose. I take 75mg of test enanthate per week injected split into 3 micro doses. This has brought my test up from 500 to 900-950. And because of the very small 25mg doses hardly any of the test converts to estrogen, no anti-e's required. I'm a bjj/westling guy and having my test up to maximal physiological range is just amazing. 

 

If the above is really true then why dont all TRT guys follow this protocol?

 

also to protect his nuts he takes the following supplements: fulvic acid, humanofort, bulgarian tribulus/daa and six raw eggs per day. According to him his balls are actuallybigger size as before TRT.

1. It may not be true.

 

2. Injecting three times a week, will soon become very tedious.

 

As for taking Humanofort....yet another 'bio -stimulant' that relieves you a cash, & does f.a.

 

There is a considerable amount of bs on many sites. I found ukm to be about the best for good information.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by faraday

[mokwit]

14 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

 

I just read this on another site : 

 

starting with a slightly lower dose. I take 75mg of test enanthate per week injected split into 3 micro doses. This has brought my test up from 500 to 900-950. And because of the very small 25mg doses hardly any of the test converts to estrogen, no anti-e's required. I'm a bjj/westling guy and having my test up to maximal physiological range is just amazing. 

 

If the above is really true then why dont all TRT guys follow this protocol?

 

also to protect his nuts he takes the following supplements: fulvic acid, humanofort, bulgarian tribulus/daa and six raw eggs per day. According to him his balls are actuallybigger size as before TRT.

From my reading around on the subject he is a very unique person to get 900 ng/dl injecting only 75mg/week - to be sure of getting that level you would need something like at least 125mg/week maybe need 250mg/week. With 75mg/week dose you might even find it would be more likely that it shuts down your own T and replaces it with less than before due to low exogenous dose.

 

That said, As outlined before the less you create a large spike the less conversion to eostrogen - seems T is aggressively aromatised to E at levels above normal 300-1100 range.

 

Secondly there's a limit to how much weight you can put on one persons experience - only the fact that he is quoting a blood level stops me from dismissing this altogether. You may be another unique individual who responds as this individual does but chances are you are not.

Edited August 8, 2018 by mokwit

[Destiny1990]

Which lab in Pattaya can do a sensitive assay of estrogen blood test?

[tropo]

4 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Which lab in Pattaya can do a sensitive assay of estrogen blood test?

What is that? All labs do Estradiol 2 blood tests if that's of any use. 600 baht or thereabouts.

[Number 6]

My brother was using steroids. Completely ruined him. He's a bit of a freak anyway with huge anger issues. Heart attack at 49. I know nothing of steroids but convinced they played  a part. Gave up the macho man muscle body lifestyle. Just a big fat hulk now...sad. Kinda looks like the Hulk too now I think about it.

[tropo]

19 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

 

I just read this on another site : 

 

starting with a slightly lower dose. I take 75mg of test enanthate per week injected split into 3 micro doses. This has brought my test up from 500 to 900-950. And because of the very small 25mg doses hardly any of the test converts to estrogen, no anti-e's required. I'm a bjj/westling guy and having my test up to maximal physiological range is just amazing. 

 

If the above is really true then why dont all TRT guys follow this protocol?

 

also to protect his nuts he takes the following supplements: fulvic acid, humanofort, bulgarian tribulus/daa and six raw eggs per day. According to him his balls are actuallybigger size as before TRT.

"If the above is really true" are the operative words here. 

 

How old is the guy? Where are his lab results? Did he try larger doses for a time and experiment with different doses, take blood tests and compare the results?

 

This is called "bro-science". It's worthless information on its own.

 

However, I do like the idea of smaller more frequent doses, but you need to find a reliable source of 10ml multi-use vials to do it. It's impossible to know what you're really getting when dealing with underground labs. It's difficult to microdose with 1ml ampules.  

 

 

[tropo]

On 8/7/2018 at 7:26 AM, hyku1147 said:

Get a pill cutter. You may be able to get a better price if you shop around. For example: Similar generics (ANAZOLE 1MG) can be bought in Pattaya for 1000 baht per 30 pill package.

They have a half life of 2 days, so .25mg every 2nd day could be a good starting point. (You don't want to drop your 'E' too low, so "blood tests, blood tests, blood tests.)

Are the ones you can get in Pattaya (1000 baht for 30 pill package) tablets or capsules. I was aware of 30 capsule x 1mg bottles, but it's hard to split powder. If they are tablets, then why pay 3700 baht for 50 when you can get 30 for 1000 baht?

 

Anastrozole is the drug name, so they are all generic copies of the original brand "Arimidex", designed to treat and/or prevent breast cancer.

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

What is that? All labs do Estradiol 2 blood tests if that's of any use. 600 baht or thereabouts.

I do have limited knowledge about this but apparently a standard estradiol test says nothing for males as its for women.Males need to ask for an more specific estrogen test otherwise the numbers don’t  match up..

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

"If the above is really true" are the operative words here. 

 

How old is the guy? Where are his lab results? Did he try larger doses for a time and experiment with different doses, take blood tests and compare the results?

 

This is called "bro-science". It's worthless information on its own.

 

However, I do like the idea of smaller more frequent doses, but you need to find a reliable source of 10ml multi-use vials to do it. It's impossible to know what you're really getting when dealing with underground labs. It's difficult to microdose with 1ml ampules.  

 

 

Any suggestions where to buy these 10 ml vials Test E? 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Any suggestions where to buy these 10 ml vials Test E? 

They are available all over town and suppliers usually have multiple brands to choose from. The problem is I no longer trust them... I wasn't feeling very good (low energy) and developed an itchy body rash which took ages to get rid of (months). I don't know for sure what it was, but stuff you're injecting has to be high on the list of suspects. What I did use went out of stock and I tried another brand. I now stick to what I know is the real deal - pharmaceutical grade ampules.

[Destiny1990]

22 minutes ago, tropo said:

They are available all over town and suppliers usually have multiple brands to choose from. The problem is I no longer trust them... I wasn't feeling very good (low energy) and developed an itchy body rash which took ages to get rid of (months). I don't know for sure what it was, but stuff you're injecting has to be high on the list of suspects. What I did use went out of stock and I tried another brand. I now stick to what I know is the real deal - pharmaceutical grade ampules.

Yes that makes good sense..

begs the question where can buy that Pharmaceutical grade? Huge difference in price or still affordable?

[Hummin]

I stay also do not save money on medication, especially from back yard farmacy I do not know well. Even whats looks the real thing, can be copy down here. 

 

Anyway, two times 0,25mg in 3 days, and am like 16 again. I even get boner on the motorbike, so how can this thing work so fast? 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Hummin

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, Hummin said:

I stay also do not save money on medication, especially from back yard farmacy I do not know well. Even whats looks the real thing, can be copy down here. 

 

Anyway, two times 0,25mg in 3 days, and am like 16 again. I even get boner on the motorbike, so how can this thing work so fast? 

So u off Nebido?

do it means instead u inject roughly  4x 0,25 mg in a week? Is  That Subq?

[Hummin]

16 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

So u off Nebido?

do it means instead u inject roughly  4x 0,25 mg in a week? Is  That Subq?

Sorry, the ,25 mg is "anastrol 1 mg"

 

I just started with Anastrozole as mentioned before in the tread. 

 

I did my first Enathate 250 19 days ago 10 weeks after my last nebido, and did bloodcheck after 10 days. My e2 spiked up to 104 pg/ml, so I have started now on Anastrol. 

 

I will do now new bloodcheck 10 days after my 2. Shot to find out next dose of Enathate. 

 

I feel alot more aggressive, and some few blood values spiked, but the rest is good so long, so I need to monitore for couple of months now to experience how this new T function on my body. 

 

I am 5% stronger already after soon 20 days, and feel more explosive, more pump in muscles, which I believe is resoult of water and maybe more blood, so will ned a blood palette count as well to see.  

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hummin