SURVEY: Death Penalty -- More, less or none at all?

[MyFriend You]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

There’s no evidence supporting the claim that the death penalty deters crime. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/30/theres-still-no-evidence-that-executions-deter-criminals/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8eac7b1147f8

Puhleeese, The Washington Post??, I'd rather read comic books, they are more factual.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, TunnelRat69 said:

Puhleeese, The Washington Post??, I'd rather read comic books, they are more factual.

Please show stats showing how their findings are inaccurate. 

[SteveB2]

4 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

This is the reason why the death penalty should be abolished - everywhere.

Humans make mistakes and humans can be corrupt. 

A man found innocent many years later can be compensated - if he stays in jail. 

A man found innocent after he was executed ,has had everything taken and it cant be compensated or given back.

There is no guarantee that everyone is guilty - history shows many innocent men were executued.

It doesnt matter if 999,999 are right, but only 1 is wrong - that innocent person's life has been taken, and that is all they/we have - and that is unacceptable.

End of story. End of argument.

 

Hmm... 

 

So what if only 1 in 1,000,000 murderers/rapists, etc  re-offended and killed again on release (BTW, it is many magnitudes higher than this) How does that effect things - or are the deaths of these new victims irrelevant when balanced against your arguement? Just asking . 

 

In the end - it's a numbers game and a more pragmatic approach is better. Let go of your attachment to the somehow all persuasive value of a single innocent human life being in jail above all other arguments - it will cloud your thinking. In any case, a jailed innocent human life is a fault of the justice system not the punishment.

[duanebigsby]

27 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

no one knows those answers - not a country on this planet can say with exact certainty that anyone convicted of a crime is 100% guilty...........its like trying to answer a 5 year old child's question, "What came first, the chicken or the egg" no one really knows the answer to that as well.    guilty based on 'the preponderance of evidence' is the key term here, we ar human, until we are replaced with robots 'whatever will be, will be'

Which is exactly why I'm opposed to the death penalty. You can't take it back guilty or innocent.

But you would go ahead even if innocent people die. How rude is that?

[whaleboneman]

If you're for the death penalty, you should accept the execution of the two Burmese kids from Koh Tao. Anyone with any understanding of the case would realize that it would be a mistake.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, mikebell said:

To all anti-death penalty apologists; check out the story of the woman found yesterday in Bangkok in a dozen pieces.  This perpetrator does not deserve to draw breath again ever.

In my country, the cops have fitted up a few people for murder that would have been killed if there had been a death penalty. I believe the same in the UK.

For that reason I want actual life imprisonment without parole for the most serious crimes.

However, death is not really a punishment. Living the rest of one's life in solitary is punishment.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Hmm... 

 

So what if only 1 in 1,000,000 murderers/rapists, etc  re-offended and killed again on release (BTW, it is many magnitudes higher than this) How does that effect things - or are the deaths of these new victims irrelevant when balanced against your arguement? Just asking . 

 

In the end - it's a numbers game and a more pragmatic approach is better. Let go of your attachment to the somehow all persuasive value of a single innocent human life being in jail above all other arguments - it will cloud your thinking. In any case, a jailed innocent human life is a fault of the justice system not the punishment.

You assume that all prisoners will gain parole. Serious criminals should never be paroled. Life should mean life, and under age people that commit serious crimes should get adult sentences, but not in adult jails till they become adults. 

[kannot]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes I have no problem with really bad murderers getting executed, problem is wrongful executions. Death is so final. 

ah but  according to most in the world and Buddhists it really isnt in fact execution for them  = Ill come back higher up the ladder, I mean if theyre going to believe this nonsense then carry out the executions.

[kannot]

15 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

No.

 

Not really at all.

 

Let me rephrase for the pedants [look up the word if you think it is accusing you of being a sexual predator].

 

States should not kill their own, or other states, citizens.

 

Happy now?

I can only comment on what you said and thats what you said.

And there was me thinking it was bicycle for a small insect

Edited June 24, 2018 by kannot

[mikebell]

19 hours ago, ianf said:

Absolutely don't agree with you. Simplistic solution? Actually if you researched the mental state of prisoners around the world, many are autistic, many have mental health problems and these types of problems should be dealt with properly by society rather than labeling people "evil" or "criminal" or whatever. I have vast experience of this having been inside prisons and examined the kinds of educational rehabilitation processes on offer. I've done this both in the USA and the UK and the results were identical. Too many people with severe problems are not cared for. In Thailand, you see them on the streets. Rather than incarcerate them or execute them, I would suggest that we, as a society, create care facilities that take these people out of harm's way and allows them to live as fulfilling a life as possible. Some people with mental health problems: sociopaths and narcissists manage to elevate themselves to positions of power and create havoc in their countries or in the world. Many people - usually identified by their extreme views - have their latent mental health problems made acceptable by these sociopathic leaders. Look at history or the current state of global affairs and you'll see what I mean. You see, old friend, it's not as easy as you seem to make out in your post above. You express prejudice, not rational thought.

I admit I am prejudiced about people who butcher other people.  The murderer has confessed; his motive was jealousy as the woman was about to re-unite with her former husband.  Your heart-rending claptrap above does nothing to mitigate against this rejected male.  He should face the needle ASAP.

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

I can only comment on what you said and thats what you said.

And there was me thinking it was bicycle for a small insect

Oh well, if that’s all you can do...

Edited June 25, 2018 by Bluespunk

[mikebell]

19 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

Thailand has the death penalty.

Did it deter the perpetrator in any way?

No

Could the wrong person be convicted and put to death?

Quite possible especially in Thailand.

The butcher has confessed; his motive jealousy as his girl friend was about to return to her former husband; he bashed her head in with a hammer & chopped her into pieces.  He does not deserve even another month of stealing oxygen.

[lincolnshire poacher]

Maybe would be murderers should be executed if they don't perform well in the "reconstructions" that are popular in Thailand and then only if they are Burmese.

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

The butcher has confessed; his motive jealousy as his girl friend was about to return to her former husband; he bashed her head in with a hammer & chopped her into pieces.  He does not deserve even another month of stealing oxygen.

People only want this man executed because he "chopped her into pieces." But, she was already dead when this happened. What is so sacred about a dead body that cutting it up is considered more horrendous than carving a dead turkey? All human life is precious but once that life is extinguished we are no different to a dead animal.

[greenchair]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:56 AM, mikebell said:

To all anti-death penalty apologists; check out the story of the woman found yesterday in Bangkok in a dozen pieces.  This perpetrator does not deserve to draw breath again ever.

He doesn't. 

But in a sane country , he would be entitled to an in debt psychiatric report by both his legal team and the state legal team. Even if he admits guilt he would be entitled to a hearing with a jury of 12 people that would look at all of the evidence together with the judge and multiple lawyers. After that he would sit in a prison for many years, where there would be numerous hearings to determine if the state is justified in killing a human being. these hearings would also include members of the victims family. Finally, before the switch is pulled there must be approval going all the way to the governor of the state. 

In Thailand this 19 year old had about 3 day trial .the evidence was 1 witness and a knife. The case is not even finished. And correct me if I'm wrong, the prison warden makes the call to execute. 

I'm on the fence about the death penalty. 

But the state can't just go around killing people on a whim. 

[greenchair]

9 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

If you're for the death penalty, you should accept the execution of the two Burmese kids from Koh Tao. Anyone with any understanding of the case would realize that it would be a mistake.

That's a matter of opinion. 

They got more than most people. They had multiple lawyers from around the world assisting them. 

They had millions of baht in donations to assist them. They had forensic evaluation from England and the British police helping them. In the end they just couldn't explain possession of that phone. 

This 26 year old  (19 at the time ). Had none of that. So in his instance it wasn't fair. 

Can't say the same for those other 2. 

[EyeOfRa]

 

 

Concluding "So in his instance it wasn't fair "

 

on the basis of "This 26 year old  (19 at the time ). Had none of that." (* "millions of baht in donations to assist them. They had forensic evaluation from England and the British police helping them." ? ❓ )

 

and 

 

"In the end they just couldn't explain possession of that phone." ?‍♂️ ?‍♀️

 

is a failure of logic, not "a matter of opinion".

 

If justification as tenuous as the above is considered sufficient for implementation of the death penalty, the justice system in Thailand is in even more perilous a state than previously thought.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by EyeOfRa

[kannot]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Oh well, if that’s all you can do...

"fraid so" can almost hear the disappointing screams emanating from you...

[kannot]

1 hour ago, newatthis said:

People only want this man executed because he "chopped her into pieces." But, she was already dead when this happened. What is so sacred about a dead body that cutting it up is considered more horrendous than carving a dead turkey? All human life is precious but once that life is extinguished we are no different to a dead animal.

Id  disagree  all human life is precious

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, kannot said:

Id  disagree  all human life is precious

 

On what basis is 'all human life is precious'? Many of us think that a scums life 'is not precious' when he rapes and murders a child (for example). I have no idea where this 'human life is precious' thing comes from and we should not protect scum who takes a life violently. 

[kannot]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

On what basis is 'all human life is precious'? Many of us think that a scums life 'is not precious' when he rapes and murders a child (for example). I have no idea where this 'human life is precious' thing comes from and we should not protect scum who takes a life violently. 

id dint say it was ........Bob

[Bluespunk]

29 minutes ago, kannot said:

"fraid so" can almost hear the disappointing screams emanating from you...

What you can hear is contempt.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Tony125]

On 6/24/2018 at 8:55 AM, Cadbury said:

Generally speaking I am against the death penalty. The thing that concerns me with "no death penalty" is that those murderers and/or rapists who are released back into the community prematurely just to do the same again. Probably get released because of overcrowding and one less mouth to feed. 

At least if they are put down like a rabid dog they don't get to kill other innocent people again.

Many say the death penalty doesn't deter others from committing murder. I don't care if it deters others from committing murder I simply know that the worthless scum who do kill will never harm anyone else ever again. Don't see the need to feed ,house , educate them so some bleeding heart liberal says they are rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society so should be set free. BS our job is not to rehabilitate a murderer but to execute him for his crime.

[graemeaylward]

Many say the death penalty doesn't deter others from committing murder. I don't care if it deters others from committing murder I simply know that the worthless scum who do kill will never harm anyone else ever again. Don't see the need to feed ,house , educate them so some bleeding heart liberal says they are rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society so should be set free. BS our job is not to rehabilitate a murderer but to execute him for his crime.

No wonder the world is in such a terrible state! Where has all the compassion gone in this fractured society. Nobody has the right to take someone else's life, especially not the state! Retribution serves no useful purpose, and violence breeds more violence. I'm so sorry that there are so many bitter and twisted people in the world.

Sent from my X98 Plus II (C2D6) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ncc1701d]

It obviously has to be unquestionable guilt. 

 

and this sitting around on death row ad infinitum is pointless. 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, ncc1701d said:

It obviously has to be unquestionable guilt. 

 

and this sitting around on death row ad infinitum is pointless. 

"It obviously has to be unquestionable guilt."

 

Agree 100%, but would add -  'and only for mass/serial/sadistic murderers'.

 

A 'life' term should also mean 'life' IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:26 AM, mikebell said:

I admit I am prejudiced about people who butcher other people.  The murderer has confessed; his motive was jealousy as the woman was about to re-unite with her former husband.  Your heart-rending claptrap above does nothing to mitigate against this rejected male.  He should face the needle ASAP.

I presume most people want evil criminals to be punished. Lethal injection is denying punishment. Life in jail is punishment.

[LennyW]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I presume most people want evil criminals to be punished. Lethal injection is denying punishment. Life in jail is punishment.

Yeah, a punishment to the taxpayers who fund their incarceration!! 

[monkfish]

31 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Yeah, a punishment to the taxpayers who fund their incarceration!! 

Of course prisoners should be made to work to pay for their keep.

[monkfish]

People aren't born as murderers it's society which forms them.