UK experts arriving to help rescue mission in Chiang Rai

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, jenny2017 said:

Great news! But who's finally commanding all these people from different parts of the world? Too many cooks do not necessarily make the best food, though.

IMO, one of the most insightful comments in the entire thread.

 

What is the order of command and who is controlling and coordinating all the different groups? It is really great to have experts assisting from around the world, but if their point of view isn't listened to or acted upon then there is little point being there.

 

Who prioritizes the advice given, stops one action to try another, etc?

 

This is not criticism BTW, just being hopeful that a trusted organization has been established to coordinate the rescue attempts.

 

As important (if not more-so) as the guys on the frontline doing the dangerous stuff.

Edited June 28, 2018 by chrisinth

[mindfulness]

19 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Would be nice to have some info from The Nation about who they are and what is their expertise.

There’re more than likely to be Pot-Hole Rescueers. 

 

If you read again it clearly states their expertise is in Cave Rescuing ... probably also expert rescuers in Pot Holing ). 

[Cranky]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

It would be a bit hard to get lost in a cave , as theres only one way to go

How many caves have you been in exactly?

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, b17 said:

3 hours ago, atyclb said:

the coach decision to take the boys into the cave during rainy season despite the posted warnings was exceptionally poor.

This is NOT the time to place blame. If you have nothing positive to say, say NOTHING. 

 

rich comment liked by the same members that liked the post making light of the cave named pattaya beach with posted pattaya beach map.

 

i am not blaming , just stating a highly relevant fact imo.  nice to know the etiquette police are on duty.

 

of course i hope they are all alive and well and get rescued.

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

17 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

IMO, one of the most insightful comments in the entire thread.

 

What is the order of command and who is controlling and coordinating all the different groups? It is really great to have experts assisting from around the world, but if their point of view isn't listened to or acted upon then there is little point being there.

 

Who prioritizes the advice given, stops one action to try another, etc?

 

This is not criticism BTW, just being hopeful that a trusted organization has been established to coordinate the rescue attempts.

 

As important (if not more-so) as the guys on the frontline doing the dangerous stuff.

I think the Thais would stay in charge (people might not like that but its their country their show). They would of course have to listen to te experts. I doubt the Thais will let the Brits run the show but I am sure they will value their input and help.

[VocalNeal]

19 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

and what equipment they brought

Apparently some radio communication devices that work through rock. Called Heyphones.  Relayed from Derbyshire to Heathrow by police, probably not at the speed limit! 

 

I'm sure they have more stuff with them. They are volunteer cave rescue guys. 

 

Youtube videos of them diving in caves. f anyone is bothered...

 

I find is amusing that as soon as foreign "experts" are mentioned all the "be the best that you can be" /"SemperFi " bullshit starts. I believe the French/Italians/Swiss et al might be quite good as cave diving as well? But they didn't volunteer to come? 

Edited June 28, 2018 by VocalNeal

[Kieran00001]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

Why is that though ?

Why the need for some air between the water surface and the cave ceiling ?

 

Its extremely dangerous otherwise as divers become disorientated as they have little way of telling up from down.

[watcharacters]

11 minutes ago, Robbess said:

Three fat farangs join the skinny Thais to squeeze about in the tight corners of a cave system. 

 

It could work.

 

There are so many bothersome and  insensitive posts in this thread I could only get to page 4 and then jumped to 9 and saw the above.

 

I hope the lads are found  but I'm  sad to read the attitude of so many on TVF. 

 

[pegman]

I read people can live with water and no food for up to 8 weeks. Gandhi fasted for 21days while in his 70's. Bobby Sands lasted 66 days. They could be filtering the water in the cave the best they can with their clothes.

It seems the group knew they were in trouble within a couple of hours of the trek beginning. They likely had a number flash lights for a group that size. Logically they would only sparingly use one light  at a time to preserve battery power. 

This has a good chance of working out as long as the rescuers can get enough water pumped out. . Let's stay positive out there people. 

[steve73]

Bit more background on the Brit guys..  here they are diving 8.8km into a cave system.

 

https://metro.co.uk/2010/09/14/british-led-dive-team-ventures-5-5miles-underwater-to-explore-pozo-azul-cave-system-512397/

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I think the Thais would stay in charge (people might not like that but its their country their show). They would of course have to listen to te experts. I doubt the Thais will let the Brits run the show but I am sure they will value their input and help.

For sure, the Thais should certainly stay in charge, we are day 5 into the emergency. The point I was trying to make was asking the question about their current operational awareness and the process of incorporating the expertise of the teams joining the search. How flexible they are willing to be to adapt to new ideas/techniques?

 

Too many times the answer (or break through) is there, but can't be seen because of the complexity of the situation. That has been my previous experience, albeit not for cave rescue. It is sometimes difficult to see the tree because of the forest..................

[pegman]

Seems the Yank's military are sending a team too. One thing about the American military is that there is likely no organization on earth with more resources.

 

 

"The US military was preparing to assist. The US Indo-Pacific Command, which is based in Hawaii, is sending a special operations team to Thailand in response to a request for help with the rescue effort, according to one US official. It wasn’t immediately clear when the team would arrive."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/28/thailand-cave-rescue-fresh-flooding-halts-search-for-missing-boys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chickenslegs]

1 hour ago, mindfulness said:

There’re more than likely to be Pot-Hole Rescueers. 

 

If you read again it clearly states their expertise is in Cave Rescuing ... probably also expert rescuers in Pot Holing ). 

Thanks. But originally the Nation article didn't contain that information - it has since been amended.

[Cranky]

33 minutes ago, Robbess said:

Three fat farangs join the skinny Thais to squeeze about in the tight corners of a cave system. 

 

It could work.

Why anyone would take the time to express such a warped comment beggars belief.  I think is one of the very few occasions that pisstaking and Thai-bashing are off limits.

[chickenslegs]

3 hours ago, Tongjaw said:

Why not try a quick google search. I’m sure you’ll find as I did that they are highly experienced cave divers and have surveyed this cave before.

Thanks. You have seen the updated version. The original The Nation article had no names or other information.

[0815]

5 hours ago, jossthaifarang said:

Am I the only one who does not understand how Pattaya beach is inside a cave in Chiang Rai? Anyway, I hope they find the them all alive..

Why is a "Franz Joseph Glacier" in New Zealand, but not in Austria ?
No other thoughts following this topic ?

[dunroaming]

13 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

The Nation article has now been updated with the following information ...

 

"They are identifeid as Robert Charlie Harper, John Volamthen, Richard William Stanton. In addition to their cave diving skills, they have also surveyed Tham Luang Cave, whereby the victims go missing, before."

 

Encouraging  news. 

Wonder if any of our very own TV "diving experts" are currently at the caves offering their advice and assistance?

 

This has turned into an international rescue effort and a real potential disaster.  Let's hope they can bring this to a successful conclusion as soon as they can!

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

international rescue effort

5  - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 

[NanLaew]

I found this from the linked article in The Guardian a bit more reassuring.

 

"They noted that tourists trapped there by past floods have been rescued after the waters receded."

 

 

[Gandtee]

6 hours ago, greenchair said:

It's been long now. 

It would truly be a miracle to find them alive. I don't think they had time to walk 10 kilometres into the safe pattaya beach. That's a long walk, about 3 hours for an 11 year old. 

The best we can hope for is to at least retrieve their bodies so the families can lay their children to rest. 

Kudos to all the rescue workers that are risking their own lives to bring these kids and their coach home to their parents. 

You're being a bit pessimistic. These are young fit boys. One can survive for a long time without food. Water is not a problem. I would think hyperthermia is their biggest worry. But with the coach there to get them heated up with exercise and then huddled together to preserve their warmth I'm sure their chances of survival are pretty good. I sincerely hope so.  Kodos to the rescuers.

[VocalNeal]

They are a team. Mixed ages. They have a leader who they know.  They will all emerge as better young men and rather than being reprimanded the coach should be praised for keeping them alive.

[KiwiKiwi]

57 minutes ago, Cranky said:

Why anyone would take the time to express such a warped comment beggars belief.  I think is one of the very few occasions that pisstaking and Thai-bashing are off limits.

 

 

Hmmm. Remain calm. Were the UK guys fat? Were the Thai guys skinny? If so then the comment wasn't warped, it was correct, and your outrage is the thing that's out of place.

[Alphy]

As a Brit I am pleased we are doing the right thing and helping with their expertise.

Let's just hope and pray they will be found. Hope is a wonderful thing!

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

You're being a bit pessimistic. These are young fit boys. One can survive for a long time without food. Water is not a problem. I would think hyperthermia is their biggest worry. But with the coach there to get them heated up with exercise and then huddled together to preserve their warmth I'm sure their chances of survival are pretty good. I sincerely hope so.  Kodos to the rescuers.

Exercise when they have no food and no prospect of food? That's daft.

I've said if before, aside from the obvious physical threats to their survival, the PSYCHOLOGY of the situation is critical. Yes, they need some amazing leadership. It may not necessarily be only from the adult though. The flip side of that is the very real possibility that fear and panic rules the day and group cohesion fell apart.

A hopeful sign nobody has mentioned yet. They have found nothing. That includes that they haven't found any bodies. Yes, that gives some hope. 

[greenchair]

11 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I found this from the linked article in The Guardian a bit more reassuring.

 

"They noted that tourists trapped there by past floods have been rescued after the waters receded."

 

 

Well, it's very upbeat. But they must be very cold by now. 

Bless them all. 

[BobbyL]

12 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

But with the coach there to get them heated up with exercise and then huddled together to preserve their warmth

Sadly you're living in a dream world if you think they are deep inside a dark, dangerous and flooded cave system doing a few shuttle runs to warm up. 

[Gandtee]

1 minute ago, BobbyL said:

Sadly you're living in a dream world if you think they are deep inside a dark, dangerous and flooded cave system doing a few shuttle runs to warm up. 

Shuttle runs? Do as I and the rest of my countrymen do when cold. Flap your arms open then to your body to pat yourself on the back. It warms you up very quickly. Of course the lack of food is the problem, but difficult situations call for difficult measures. I wish them well.

[Rimmer]

A troll post and a reply have been removed

[Jingthing]

Just now, Gandtee said:

Shuttle runs? Do as I and the rest of my countrymen do when cold. Flap your arms open then to your body to pat yourself on the back. It warms you up very quickly. Of course the lack of food is the problem, but difficult situations call for difficult measures. I wish them well.

Basic survival in cold -- use each other's body heat.

 

Next ... 

[VocalNeal]

One has to laugh. Two of the three Brits hold the world record for the longest cave dive 8.5kms yet are described apparently by the Thai authorities/Media as "Diving instructors"  Lets hope they can/are allowed   to contribute.

Edited June 28, 2018 by VocalNeal