Coach Faces Charges For Leading Boys Into Tham Luang Cave

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

I'd love to see it, as would many people who've been riveted to their screens worldwide. Even if Russia visas were waived though, I think some (including the English speaking boy) are from hilltribes, and effectively stateless and paperless. It could highlight some very awkward issues.

You haven't been keeping up, Vlad does pretty much what he wants to. Lands the jet, they get in, watch the game, fly back. Do you think Thai immigration is going to refuse entry to a national hero. Good luck with that.

[Damrongsak]

Years ago, my friend and I were Boy Scouts in grade school.  Went to a weekend camp-out at the USMC headquarters base at Quantico, Virginia, USA.  We wandered off and found some cool shit on one of the firing  ranges nearby, apparently.  A live bazooka round or whatnot.  Scoutmasters called the EOD people.  The round was supposedly live, but that was over 50 years ago and I call B.S. Meanwhile, back at camp, we threw cans of applesauce into the campfire along with .22 blank cartridges.  Boom!  A great time was had by all.  Except for the guy whose tent had a hole in it.

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

Years ago, my friend and I were Boy Scouts in grade school.  Went to a weekend camp-out at the USMC headquarters base at Quantico, Virginia, USA.  We wandered off and found some cool shit on one of the firing  ranges nearby, apparently.  A live bazooka round or whatnot.  Scoutmasters called the EOD people.  The round was supposedly live, but that was over 50 years ago and I call B.S. Meanwhile, back at camp, we threw cans of applesauce into the campfire along with .22 blank cartridges.  Boom!  A great time was had by all.  Except for the guy whose tent had a hole in it.

Don't get me started. Growing up in South Florida in the 60-70s I was about as far from being a Monk as one could imagine. Great times and I don't remember making the same mistake more than ten or fifteen times, lol

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The media reporting has been very consistent saying he led them in. I thought that writing the apology letter gave weight to that as well. Let him and the rest of the boys be rescued first and worry later about finding out any further details about how this group got into that awful mess in the first place.

I have seen quite a few reports claiming he went in after them when the parents called him, him giving up his food for the kids, bit of a sob story about his dead parents and how he was a monk. Looks more like he just did not think, which is the cause of so many deaths here, but he got away with causing just the one death so far. He will have to be made out to be a hero as the world is watching, so him irresponsibly taking them in there in the rainy season with rain forecast will just get glossed over.

[JAZZDOG]

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

I have seen quite a few reports claiming he went in after them when the parents called him, him giving up his food for the kids, bit of a sob story about his dead parents and how he was a monk. Looks more like he just did not think, which is the cause of so many deaths here, but he got away with causing just the one death so far. He will have to be made out to be a hero as the world is watching, so him irresponsibly taking them in there in the rainy season with rain forecast will just get glossed over.

Making allot of assumptions and we all know where that leads. Only thing we can assume with a high degree of confidence is the kids were better served with him being there. I also believe it is fair to assume it was the kids idea to go in the cave and he went along to watch over and keep them together. The one certainty is the coach broke no laws. So debating the likelihood of charges being brought against someone that obviously broke no law unless you intend to charge him with kidnapping is a non-starter.

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

I have seen quite a few reports claiming he went in after them when the parents called him, him giving up his food for the kids, bit of a sob story about his dead parents and how he was a monk. Looks more like he just did not think, which is the cause of so many deaths here, but he got away with causing just the one death so far. He will have to be made out to be a hero as the world is watching, so him irresponsibly taking them in there in the rainy season with rain forecast will just get glossed over.

 

And it's already been mentioned that the parents knew they were going to the cave after the football attempt.

 

His parents and whole family, most of his village, died of a disease, he was basically an orphan at 14. Very unfair and lacking in any compassion to label it a sob story.

 

Way too many people trying to blame the coach, very unfair and to specifically blame the coach for the demise of the navy seal is just beyond belief. 

 

 

[ZeVonderBearz]

Why? Surely the local authorities should ensure that the caves are out of bounds during rainy season. Country needs to take responsibility for once. 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Absolutely wrong, public safety was broken, some entity or individual in charge of that property should be found liable and made an example. In developed countries you fail to put a wall/fence around your pool and a kid drowns you got serious problems. If DOT screws up signage on a freeway resulting in death the government pays millions in damages. The problem here is too few are held accountable, enforcement is a joke and many die needlessly. Your attitude insures the status quo.

We are not talking about swimming pools though .

We are talking about in the wild , caves , cliffs , rivers etc

And you just cannot put a wall or fence around everything or have people standing there telling not to go in .

   Life is full of danger , people need to be self aware and realise the dangers

[JAZZDOG]

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

We are not talking about swimming pools though .

We are talking about in the wild , caves , cliffs , rivers etc

And you just cannot put a wall or fence around everything or have people standing there telling not to go in .

   Life is full of danger , people need to be self aware and realise the dangers

But you can put a gate on a cave that killed one soldier and put 13 more in extreme danger five of which are still in danger. You have a firm grasp on the obvious that rivers and cliffs present a problem as far as protecting the public. Very naïve to think caves cant be made off limits.

[Hummin]

Im so happy I grow up in a country you still allowd to challenge nature, and no one will be charged for trespaading, shot or prosecuted! A true free country!

 

However if serious laws, guidelines and warnings have been ignored, a investigation is necessery, but I can not see how the coach have done anything wrong here! 

 

Update the guidelines and warnings for the future, so it does not happen again. 

 

The coach is a human being who need love and help when he comes out. Hopefully alive and he already paid the ultimate price for parttaking in the boys ritualnto become men. 

 

Some of you seems manic about the coach, and need help!

[lamyai3]

54 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

I also believe it is fair to assume it was the kids idea to go in the cave and he went along to watch over and keep them together.

Anyone who's ever been a kid must surely realise this is the most likely story. As their coach, aside from developing their football skills he was also tasked with taking responsibility for them, and keeping them motivated and letting them have fun. It's more than likely that the kids wanted to do something a bit dangerous and go on an adventure, and he reluctantly tagged along to try and keep them in order.

Yesterday's article in the Independent about these kids' classmates speaks volumes. The comments of one of their friends makes clear that the most dangerous influence on youngsters by far is that of their own peer groups:

 

“When they come home, those kids will be able to teach us something – about how to survive, about how to stay safe in the caves.”

Gan declared that, armed with the wisdom of the survivors, he would still be willing now to head into the caves that have threatened to claim the lives of his fellow students.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-cave-rescue-boys-class-explore-trapped-football-team-a8438181.html

Edited July 10, 2018 by lamyai3

[JAZZDOG]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Im so happy I grow up in a country you still allowd to challenge nature, and no one will be charged for trespaading, shot or prosecuted! A true free country!

 

However if serious laws, guidelines and warnings have been ignored, a investigation is necessery, but I can not see how the coach have done anything wrong here! 

 

Update the guidelines and warnings for the future, so it does not happen again. 

 

The coach is a human being who need love and help when he comes out. Hopefully alive and he already paid the ultimate price for parttaking in the boys ritualnto become men. 

 

Some of you seems manic about the coach, and need help!

Coach will be greeted as a hero in his community and with rights to his story likely to be a very wealthy man. Once he walks out of that cave coach is good to go. All that judge him need to look in the mirror and ask how many lives they saved in the 

last two weeks.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

But you can put a gate on a cave that killed one soldier and put 13 more in extreme danger five of which are still in danger. You have a firm grasp on the obvious that rivers and cliffs present a problem as far as protecting the public. Very naïve to think caves cant be made off limits.

How many caves are there in Thailand that need to be fenced off ?

How many Thais die in the sea and rivers compared to in caves ?

Need to fence off all the seas , rivers and cliffs , before they think about fencing caves off

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

I have seen quite a few reports claiming he went in after them when the parents called him, him giving up his food for the kids, bit of a sob story about his dead parents and how he was a monk. Looks more like he just did not think, which is the cause of so many deaths here, but he got away with causing just the one death so far. He will have to be made out to be a hero as the world is watching, so him irresponsibly taking them in there in the rainy season with rain forecast will just get glossed over.

Quote

bit of a sob story about his dead parents

 

You are right, and also the team captain and his sob story, the press are trying to manipulate you into feeling sorry for them just because they got stuck in a cave, thankfully some people see through that and don't  give up their sympathy, glad to see you take a stand where it matters! ?

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

I have seen quite a few reports claiming he went in after them when the parents called him, him giving up his food for the kids, bit of a sob story about his dead parents and how he was a monk. 

How can you accuse him of giving a sob story ?

He hasnt spoken to anyone since it happened .

He has said nothing to anyone (due to being in a cave)

How can you suggest that he gave a "sob story" ?

[yrag]

8 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Agree, the argument could equally be levelled at the forestry department for posting inaccurate warnings. If a road becomes deadly at 73mph, the speed limit warnings would be set at around 50, not at 70. In normal circumstances flooding becomes increasingly risky as the season progresses (perhaps this is untrue in mountain caves) but one would assume a margin of error would be factored in. Common sense or not, if an official sign says it's unsafe from July, the implication is that it's still safe in June and that they would have taken this into account in posting the sign. It's easy to say he made an error of judgement in hindsight, but the only ones who really have a right to make that call are the kids' parents. If the authorities try and take action against him they'll score a huge own goal, and I doubt they'd have a legal leg to stand on. 

None of parents want to do anything against the coach...quite the opposite... I understand they be thousands of Thai families who want to adopt him....

[yrag]

On 7/3/2018 at 11:15 AM, darksidedog said:

I suspect he may well turn out to be the hero who kept a level head and made sure the boys kept theirs too. When they were stuck, he took them to higher ground and they are all alive. On their own, the boys might have tried something foolish. They had been there before without incident, so I feel, especially since they are not even out yet, that such talk is absolutely uncalled for. The Press should stop such rot.

...The  sign at entrance says July not enter ( Warning ) , they went in June 23rd...why crucify the coach . Maybe coach was a  little  stupid for taking in there in the first place, ..Their were NO intent of harm….But He saved them...( Meditation) was a monk for 10 years..Just think what if he had not been there? ? He is presently the one in  the worse condition, gave all food and water to the boys. He saved those boys lives, , further more officials should have Gated the entrance  knowing the risk long ago…They be the ones should be held accountable...Coach parents died at very young age....None of parents want to do anything against the coach.. thousands of families here in Thailand want to adopt him...

 

[steve73]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

How many caves are there in Thailand that need to be fenced off ?

How many Thais die in the sea and rivers compared to in caves ?

Need to fence off all the seas , rivers and cliffs , before they think about fencing caves off

I prepared this reply to a much earlier post..  but decide to quote you since you asked about numbers... 

Thailand has over 1000 known caves - impossibe to barricade them all?

This cave is the 4th longest, but there are many others; some that are probably dry and safe all year round, and others (or sections of) that could flood at any time.

There are almost certainly many more still to be discovered, either due to their remote location, or simply that a small hole in ground or rockface could, (with just a little digging) reveal a major cave system just beyond the entrance. This is the drive that keeps the exploration caving community going.

The mountain above Tham Luang has now been well scoured looking for a possible chimneys down to the streamway as a possible escape route. Some of these shafts were reported to go down over 100's of m in total.

I would hazard a guess that over time more will be found, and some of them will be found to connect to the streamway somewhere, making a round trip possible... (or making a future rescue much easier and safer).

But these shafts, and many hundreds (perhaps even thousands) like them throughout the country, can be fatal if trying to climb down without the necessary electron (rope) ladders or abseiling gear. How do you suggest barricading a pothole that hasn't been found yet?

Thailand is not a Nanny state - nor would I want it to be in many respects (OK - please sort out the driving standards as a first priority).

I think this rescue will have brought Thaland to the attention of many cavers worldwide, who may now look to visit and explore looking for the next monster cave system, and it's important that access be provided for them to attempt.

But I do agree, that warning signs need to be improved for known dangerous caves, and perhaps use a key entry barricade like many in the UK.

[JaiLai]

But you can put a gate on a cave that killed one soldier and put 13 more in extreme danger five of which are still in danger. You have a firm grasp on the obvious that rivers and cliffs present a problem as far as protecting the public. Very naïve to think caves cant be made off limits.

Have they started to put gates on all other similar like caves here yet?

Will they??

I think we might know the answers to that...


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[cardinalblue]

He is not giving a sob story; the media is the one creating and  projecting him as the main character of this story...

 

The truth is not yet known as to whether he lead them into the cave on a team building activity or he was called by parents to go in after them. Little bit hard to believe the the latter b/c  1. if they couldn't get out, he wouldn't have been able to get in let alone locate them and 2. some forest ranger who found the bikes is the one who brought the initial public attention that there might be a problem...3. he doesn't notify the authorities prior to foolishly going in (which responsible authorities would advise him not to go in until assessment/proper support) 

 

The problem could be the media shapes/fabricates the story  (avoiding the truth/getting at the root cause) in the name of saving  face on multiple levels....happens all the time here...Saving face will be the driving force on how this story unfolds and presented to the public which might or might not be the actual truth..... just think how the gov/media creates the "7 dangerous days of the year" propaganda event every year (basically counting bodies and recording drunks) to avert serious/real attention and focus on the root cause of the problem (day-to-day driving behaviors and habits and the lack of an effective comprehensive enforcement program).....   

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

How can you accuse him of giving a sob story ?

He hasnt spoken to anyone since it happened .

He has said nothing to anyone (due to being in a cave)

How can you suggest that he gave a "sob story" ?

 

To be fair, it could be said that the press having the sob story, and if I was in their situation I would do the same, he is at risk of being lynched by an angry mob of sexpats.

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

To be fair, it could be said that the press having the sob story, and if I was in their situation I would do the same, he is at risk of being lynched by an angry mob of sexpats.

Angry mob with mania. Please prescribe lithium and valium, they really need it, they see and hear stories that have not been told yet. 

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

To be fair, it could be said that the press having the sob story, and if I was in their situation I would do the same, he is at risk of being lynched by an angry mob of sexpats.

 

Your just trying to make trouble for a young man who is being unfairly treated by the media who want a story that sells big.

 

- No photos or videos have appeared showing him 'leading' the team into cave.

- There is no evidence, so far,  that he was even there at the time the first of the boys went into the cave.

- None of the team have yet been interviewed - so none of them has stated that their coach actually 'led' them into the cave.

 

 

[BangkokSausage]

I believe he gave his sandwich to the 11 boys after getting them trapped.
Leave him be [emoji16]

[Kieran00001]

19 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Your just trying to make trouble for a young man who is being unfairly treated by the media who want a story that sells big.

 

- No photos or videos have appeared showing him 'leading' the team into cave.

- There is no evidence, so far,  that he was even there at the time the first of the boys went into the cave.

- None of the team have yet been interviewed - so none of them has stated that their coach actually 'led' them into the cave.

 

 

 

In what way is making people feel sorry for the man trying to make trouble for him?  Surely it is the opposite to try to give him some protection from the baying lynch mob?

[wayned]

If this had happened in the US, 10 people would already be writing books blaming each other and filing civil lawsuits!

[cardinalblue]

Yes, if happened in the US and if an organized activity, he could/would be charged with child endangerment. The benefit from that is it teaches accountability at an early age and the consequences from lack of/poor decision-making...

[wabothai]

The 'circus' is complete.

[wgdanson]

On 7/3/2018 at 10:28 AM, Eric Loh said:

Charge the Forest Department for not putting sufficient warning signs.

There are warning signs on the Thai roads, but who takes any notice of them?

[Bangkok Barry]

In his letter, Ake apologised to the parents for taking the boys into the cave network. He didn't 'follow them in'.

 

It wasn't officially the rainy season yet when they went in, but the weather doesn't know the date and checking whether rain was due before going deep into a cave might have been a good idea. You know, showing a bit of common sense, leadership and responsibility. Because he didn't someone has died.

 

An article in the London Times describes the cave as the most dangerous in the world, yet the party went in with no preparation at all and no safety equipment. Caving isn't just an afternoon stroll through the woods. It is fraught with danger and their so-called leader demonstrated no awareness and took no precautions. Now the kids are probably scarred for life, being trapped in a dark, wet cave for nearly two weeks, most of it not knowing whether they would ever be found and rescued.