Tham Luang cave: As water levels recede, rescuers inclined to evacuate stranded 13 before rains aggravate floods

[webfact]

Survivors get diving lessons

By THE NATION

 

 

As water levels recede, rescuers inclined to evacuate stranded 13 before rains aggravate floods.

 

RESCUE TEAMS plan to take a risk, if manageable, in escorting 13 survivors out of the flooded Tham Luang cave as they believe staying inside longer may prove even riskier in the rainy season. 

 

 

Although four rescue options have been discussed, it is now quite clear that decision-makers will go with the option of evacuating the 12 boys and their football coach through a 5km stretch that will require both diving and trekking. For each of them, this journey could take many hours. Even with all their training, it takes the Royal Thai Navy SEALs about five hours to move from Noen Nom Sao to the third chamber of the cave.

 

Noen Nom Sao is where the 13 members of the Mu Pa Academy Mae Sai, a local football team, have been stranded since June 23. The third chamber, which now serves as the forward command for rescue operations, is about a few kilometres from the mouth of the cave. 

 

The diving-and-trekking evacuation is considered dangerous, given that the 13 trapped victims have had no swimming or diving experience, but this method is considered the quickest way to evacuate them.

 

“Our major concern is the weather because, despite our best efforts to drain the water, we cannot beat the rising floodwater level if there’s heavy rain,” Narongsak Osotanakorn said yesterday in his capacity as the chief of the rescue operations.

 

Flash floods hit the Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai province on June 23, leaving the 12 footballers aged 11 to 16 and their coach stranded inside.

 

Narongsak has since headed the rescue operations, which involve more than 1,000 officials and volunteers.

 

 

Experts from many countries have also helped in the life-saving mission, which has become big news across the world. 

 

“The SEALs are able to go back and forth and the stranded children are at a safe location, but a higher water level would make the rescue operation even harder,” he explained. 

 

In the absence of heavy rain, powerful pumps have significantly lowered the floodwater level inside the cave this week. 

 

For the first time since rescue operations started, it was possible yesterday for rescue teams to walk into the third chamber of the cave without the need to dive at all. The first two-km stretch of the cave, from its mouth, is now flooded with no more than knee-deep water. 

 

The third chamber functions as the forward command for the rescue efforts. It stores oxygen tanks, goods, necessary supplies and communication devices. 

 

The lower the water level, the greater the prospects of evacuating the trapped boys and their coach through the main entrance of the cave. 

 

As rescue planners work hard on draining out the floodwater, the SEALs are familiarising the 13 survivors with diving gear and skills that will help them during their evacuation. 

 

“We have not yet decided when they will be evacuated,” Narongsak said. “We need to consider several factors including weather conditions.”

 

He said it would be best for them to move out when floodwater levels hit the lowest possible. 

 

“But we also need to consider their physical condition. Medics will decide on that. Physical rehabilitation is now going on at Noen Nom Sao,” he said.

 

According to him, 13 sets of diving gears and escort teams have already been prepared. 

 

“If physical examination shows the survivors may not be 100 per cent ready but all risks involved are within manageable levels, we will go ahead with the evacuation immediately,” Narongsak said. “Doctors and SEALs will make the evaluation.”

 

Diving experts have said that it will be really hard for the trapped boys and their coach to make the journey by diving through cold and muddy waters.

 

Rescue planners, however, have assured that there will be two SEALs escorting each of the survivors.

 

Rod lines and oxygen tanks have already been installed at the diving sections too. 

 

Narongsak said at the same time, many rescue teams continued to explore areas above the Tham Luang in the hope of finding a better way to evacuate the 13 survivors. 

 

Three other possible options to evacuate the 13 survivors are: to drill into the cave and get them out; to find a natural shaft that can connect to the cave naturally or with a drilling solution; and to have the 13 survivors stay inside the cave with necessary supplies until the rainy season ends. 

 

All three options carry some risks. Therefore, rescue planners have decided to try to teach the 13 survivors how to swim and dive so that they can brave their way out. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30349416

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-07-06

[AlexRich]

I hope these guys have consulted the international teams with cave rescue experience and they are not flying solo. Good luck to all involved, I hope everyone gets out safe and well.

[greenchair]

No easy option. 

But is it necessary to wait for every last one to be fit. 

There must be a couple of strong ones in there that could pioneer the first journey. They don't all need to come out on the same day. 

Good luck everyone. 

[balo]

This is not sounding good , whatever option they choose their lives is in great danger. 

 

[webfact]

Governor says extraction plan may be executed if risks are acceptable

By Thai PBS

 

 

Chief of the Tham Luang rescue operation Narongsak Osotthanakorn said this morning that he might order the extraction of the survivors if the risks are acceptable even though they are not 100 percent physically fit.

 

Speaking at a daily press briefing, the former governor of Chiang Rai admitted there are major  challenges in extracting the 13 survivors out of the flooded cave, saying that rescuers have to spend six hours to get to them and another five hours to extract them out one after another.

 

He expressed serious concern with rains which might bring more water into the cave, but he said he could not afford to let water level in the cave to rise again and might choose to execute the extraction plan if the risks are acceptable even though the 12 boys and their coach are not 100 percent physically fit.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/governor-says-extraction-plan-may-executed-risks-acceptable/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-07-06

[holy cow cm]

Sounds negative, but the words THAI Navy and Seal I have a continuos hard time biting down on. Just leaves me thinking it is all just a game name making notoriety. Should be using another label, like barracuda or something. I just hope they are 1/2 as good as the moniker suggests and no preventable foul ups getting the kids out. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by holy cow cm

[stevenl]

Looking at the forecasts I have said all along: get them out Friday or Saturday.

 

I don't foresee any problems with them diving and trekking.

[Prairieboy]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Looking at the forecasts I have said all along: get them out Friday or Saturday.

 

I don't foresee any problems with them diving and trekking.

Do you have any amulets for sale?

[LennyW]

With two navy seals escorting each individual all the way this should be doable.

 

Get it done, take care and stay safe!

[BobbyL]

20 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

 

I don't foresee any problems with them diving and trekking.

?

 

Are you serious? 

[ThreeEyedRaven]

It has been a long journey for them already. I hope that they are only pulled out through diving, if absolutely necessary. It will be a massive ordeal for the kids after what they have already been through. Please do not let something go wrong now.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

?

 

Are you serious? 

I have been saying this for a few days now, why wouldn't I be serious.

 

I have not much cave diving experience, but have taught many kids diving. What is your experience?

[Nigeone]

There definately going for it..The 5 extra Brit cave divers with equipment should be there anytime . They wouldn't have made the trip unless there expertise was needed . . By Saturday evening we will no the results of there efforts . Fingers crossed for a great end to this ordeal

[jossthaifarang]

Children are pretty resilient when faced with danger, I recon they will get through the dive. Reports are now saying the water is considerably lower in many parts of the once flooded sections. It will minimize the amount of dive time at least, I just hope they have the right size masks for the kids, as one of the experts pointed out they will panic when water ingresses due to their lack of swimming experience.

 

I really hope they get them out of there safely, and soon without any problems. The rain is coming and as Iv'e said before, I'm going to have an heart attack soon, my ticker cant take this shit..

[smutcakes]

26 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I have been saying this for a few days now, why wouldn't I be serious.

 

I have not much cave diving experience, but have taught many kids diving. What is your experience?

I think you have 0 experience cave diving, not not much.

 

Its like pot holing in murky sometimes blind conditions, with current, with kids with zero experience and some who allegedly cannot swim. It takes Navy Seals 5 hours to dive and trek there and the conditions the world leaders said were 'gnarly' apparently meaning their were complications and difficulties. And you think there are no problems trying to guide these kids through that? If one panicked in a tight area, ripped off their mask, tossed up silt into the passage etc etc they could all be screwed. I have been caving a number of times and even in water less conditions, on known routes it is pretty terrifying and dangerous squeezing through and around these shafts

[utalkin2me]

It may take a long time for each extraction via diving, but they have time right now. It would seriously be difficult for a nimble young, rubber boned thai to die while scuba diving in there as he would habe insurance divers on either side of him in case anything happens. They are not diving 30k leagues under the sea here where decompression comes i to play. 

 

To me it is obvious it is way more dangerous to stay in there... if any sudden change i weather happens, which as we all know it can rain cats and dogs from nowhere, now you have no moves left. No time. 

 

I think there is someone at the top afraid to pull the trigger for fear of making a mistake. This would be like not getting a hostage or two out of a hostage situation while you have the chance. You just don't wait for the time to be perfect in cases like this. 

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I think you have 0 experience cave diving, not not much.

 

Its like pot holing in murky sometimes blind conditions, with current, with kids with zero experience and some who allegedly cannot swim. It takes Navy Seals 5 hours to dive and trek there and the conditions the world leaders said were 'gnarly' apparently meaning their were complications and difficulties. And you think there are no problems trying to guide these kids through that? If one panicked in a tight area, ripped off their mask, tossed up silt into the passage etc etc they could all be screwed. I have been caving a number of times and even in water less conditions, on known routes it is pretty terrifying and dangerous squeezing through and around these shafts

You're wrong, I have done some cave diving in Yucatan.

And I trust children diving, they are resilient and have especially now the will power. Silt will hardly matter, visibility is zilch anyway. With one in front, one in the back per kid, breathing from long hose from one of the others, regular breaks, diving with the current, they'll be ok.

[webfact]

Rescuers consider 'alternative' routes to save Thailand's trapped boys

By Panu Wongcha-um

 

Rescue workers are seen in front of Tham Luang cave complex, as members of an under-16 soccer team and their coach have been found alive according to local media in the northern province of Chiang Rai, Thailand, July 5, 2018. REUTERS/Athit Perawongmetha

 

CHIANG RAI (Reuters) - Rescuers in Thailand are trying to find alternative ways to rescue 12 boys and their soccer coach trapped inside a cave complex for 13 days, as teams brace for heavy rain which could further delay the operation.

 

"We are trying to find alternative techniques to reach the 13," Chiang Rai Governor Narongsak Osottanakorn told reporters late on Thursday.

 

"We have considered many alternatives to find the most feasible ones," he added.

 

Rescue alternatives include teaching the boys to dive and then swim out, a highly risky venture, remaining in the cave for months until the wet season ends and flood waters recede, or drilling a shaft into the cave from the forest above.

 

The boys, aged between 11 and 16, and their assistant coach were found inside the Tham Luang cave in northern Chiang Rai province on Monday, after nine days underground, hungry but in good spirits. They went missing after they set out to explore the cave on June 23.

 

Rescuers are now deciding how to remove the group but have been slowed down by logistical issues including high water levels inside the cave and narrow, flooded passages which would require the boys to dive alone.

The Thai navy is now teaching the boys the basics of diving, with a view to guiding them out through flood waters.

 

But getting them out won't be easy. The boys will have to be taught how to use scuba diving gear and how to navigate a cave that has frustrated even the most expert divers.

 

"Regarding the plan for the 13 to swim or dive, there is only one critical point which it is risky: It is where every boy has to dive alone. The point is very narrow ... It is very deep water. The distance is pretty long," said Narongsak.

 

Some of the boys cannot swim.

But rescuers are also considering other options including keeping the 13 inside the Tham Luang cave until the flood waters recede, at the end of the rainy season in about four months.

 

Others say the boys could be out in days if the weather is on their side and enough water can be pumped out of the cave to enable the boys to get out the same way they got in, on foot, perhaps with some swimming.

 

Another possibility would be to find an alternative way into their chamber, such as drilling a shaft into the cave from the forested mountain above.

 

Narongsak said rescuers were preparing a five km (three miles) "oxygen pipeline" as part of preparations for the group's extraction but added that the boys would not be coming out soon.

 

"You see we are increasing the number of people going inside the cave. So we have to fill it up with oxygen," he said.

 

Heavy monsoon rains are forecast for next week in most of the north, according to Thailand's meteorological department.

 

Graphic: Lost boys in Thailand cave -

 

(Additional reporting and writing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre; Editing by Michael Perry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-06

[Muzarella]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I hope these guys have consulted the international teams with cave rescue experience and they are not flying solo. Good luck to all involved, I hope everyone gets out safe and well.

You said exactly wath it was on my mind. I hope they will bring the team from UK that found the boys. I believe that they went back to the UK because they knew that it is not possible get the kids out by diving. On international channels, experts are saying also that doing it it is very dangerous.....and may be fatal.... even to diving professionals. 

[Muzarella]

3 hours ago, balo said:

This is not sounding good , whatever option they choose their lives is in great danger. 

 

The cove have to be dry enough to avoid any diving by the kids. If just one fatality happens this may be a tragedy to never forgive. I may be wrong, but I believe that there are more powerful pumps on the world that the ones used now to dry the cove.

[jossthaifarang]

32 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You're wrong, I have done some cave diving in Yucatan.

And I trust children diving, they are resilient and have especially now the will power. Silt will hardly matter, visibility is zilch anyway. With one in front, one in the back per kid, breathing from long hose from one of the others, regular breaks, diving with the current, they'll be ok.

Fully agreed, No I have no experience cave diving, but do have experience using BA. Anyway since both of you are here now, which do have experience.

 

The most obvious problem as Alex has pointed out is panic and rip off mask, why not just bind or wrap them so they cant? With air supply from the diver 1 and diver 2 behind to help, this would be more like moving equipment right?

 

I'm asking because you have experience with this.. Not taking the piss either.

[jossthaifarang]

1 minute ago, Muzarella said:

The cove have to be dry enough to avoid any diving by the kids. If just one fatality happens this may be a tragedy to never forgive. I may be wrong, but I believe that there are more powerful pumps on the world that the ones used now to dry the cove.

Cant get the pumps in far enough, so they can only pump from outside and let it drain naturally, too much time. The rain is coming and it could flood the cave completely. Nobody knows, as no one has ever been in there during a major monsoon, at least no one who lived to tell the tail...

[chrisinth]

39 minutes ago, Muzarella said:

You said exactly wath it was on my mind. I hope they will bring the team from UK that found the boys. I believe that they went back to the UK because they knew that it is not possible get the kids out by diving. On international channels, experts are saying also that doing it it is very dangerous.....and may be fatal.... even to diving professionals. 

One member of the British team has returned to the UK. He is 70 yo and was going back for a medical. The remaining two divers (who I believe are with the kids at the minute) have pledged to remain on site until the kids have been successfully extracted.

 

Shouldn't be spreading false news like that above that they returned to UK because they knew it wasn't possible to walk/dive the kids out.

[dave moir]

2 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Sounds negative, but the words THAI Navy and Seal I have a continuos hard time biting down on. Just leaves me thinking it is all just a game name making notoriety. Should be using another label, like barracuda or something. I just hope they are 1/2 as good as the moniker suggests and no preventable foul ups getting the kids out. 

Why do you knock Thai navy seals? Just think how good Gurkha's are!!!! Asian people who are world renowned!!!! It's a very difficult job to get those kids out, would you have the balls to do it? ???

[robblok]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I have been saying this for a few days now, why wouldn't I be serious.

 

I have not much cave diving experience, but have taught many kids diving. What is your experience?

I disagree with you about the risks, you have taught many kids to dive but have not much cave diving experience and the experience you have was probably not in a dive so hard it required international experts to complete. The kids don't have much time to prepare and not all kids are equally good in the water. The kids you taught wanted to dive probably had some previous water experience. That is not sure for these kids.

 

I think the risk is quite high, I wonder how high the risk is of the cave flooding completely. Waiting it out might be safer.  The drilling option is dangerous too but maybe more safe. 

 

Anyway the experts are at odds with each-other, I am not going to say what the best way is.. just going to say the diving exit will be quite risky. 

[robblok]

28 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

Fully agreed, No I have no experience cave diving, but do have experience using BA. Anyway since both of you are here now, which do have experience.

 

The most obvious problem as Alex has pointed out is panic and rip off mask, why not just bind or wrap them so they cant? With air supply from the diver 1 and diver 2 behind to help, this would be more like moving equipment right?

 

I'm asking because you have experience with this.. Not taking the piss either.

Your lack of experience is showing.. there is no way you can secure a mask that it cant be ripped of. Just moving it will flood it. 

 

The way i see it is that the most risky part is where the kids have to dive alone as stated in the article. 

 

"Regarding the plan for the 13 to swim or dive, there is only one critical point which it is risky: It is where every boy has to dive alone. The point is very narrow ... It is very deep water. The distance is pretty long," said Narongsak.

 

I am not saying that getting them out with diving is not an option, I am saying it has big risks but still might be the best option. But it certainly is not without risks.

[Eric Loh]

Most countries will only allow certify cave divers above the age of 18 for obvious reasons. Big risk to teach the young kids aged 11-14 to cave dive in few days. Reports that few of the kids are also in poor health condition. The only safer way is to pump as much water out and to widen some of the narrow passageway by mechanical means and reducing the time in water if diving is the only option. Hopefully they can find another dry shaft to evacuate all safely before the rain kicks in. 

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, Muzarella said:

You said exactly wath it was on my mind. I hope they will bring the team from UK that found the boys. I believe that they went back to the UK because they knew that it is not possible get the kids out by diving. On international channels, experts are saying also that doing it it is very dangerous.....and may be fatal.... even to diving professionals. 

Harper, the oldest guy at 70, went back to the UK for medical reasons.  I believe the other two are still here and reported to be joined by other UK divers.

[webfact]

Thai authorities say navy SEAL working to rescue boys trapped in cave has died from lack of oxygen. /AP

[wadsy]

My Thai wife just said that on the Thai media they are just reporting one of the Thai SEAL team has met with tragedy. Anyone know if this is actually the case? Hopefully not.