Online teaching tax

[AlphaCanadian]

I may be starting to teach English online soon (Chinese students and a Chinese company).

 

I'm trying to do the legal and right thing.

 

I have explored the avenue of paying tax in Thailand.  It seems that that would involve many hoops to jump through and perhaps not even technically possible.

 

I am in Thailand on a tourist visa.

 

I am a Canadian citizen but I have not lived in Canada for many years (nor have I filed tax in Canada for many years).

 

I am not trying to commit tax fraud, but I do not want to pay tax that I am not required to pay.

 

How do digital nomads get their salary? I will be travelling to other countries while teaching online. It seems silly to try to file in many places.

 

Some would say just file in Canada but if I have not lived there for many years, am not working in Canada and will not be working in Canada nor returning to Canada anytime soon I do not see that that would necessarily be required.

 

This is likely one of those things that has no clear answer.

 

Of course I do not want my pay cheque to be deposited into my Canadian bank account (in case of an audit).

 

What is a good place to have my salary deposited? I've heard positive things about Payoneer.

 

Thanks in advance.

[DGS1244]

As far as I understand it, you cannot work on a tourist visa, on line or what ever without a  work permit. I am sure others will correct me if I am wrong.

[cms22]

I'm no expert but am sure the only way you can pay tax is by getting a work permit...

[Card]

35 minutes ago, DGS1244 said:

As far as I understand it, you cannot work on a tourist visa, on line or what ever without a  work permit. I am sure others will correct me if I am wrong.

Correct. It doesn't even matter if u do not get paid (charity work) or paid outside the country, it is where you are located when you do the work that counts. What is work should be obvious or the tax dept will decide and ignorance is no excuse. However, most online workers, condo renters and charity workers don't declare their work and the govt dont seem to care much, but there is always the risk of committing a tax or visa crime.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Card

[quandow]

I can't tell you to just work and ignore the taxes, that would be illegal. I CAN tell you involving any Thai government entity will only make your life miserable.

[theonetrueaussie]

Go see a good Immigration lawyer they can set you up with a work permit and if your income comes from outside the country you do not even have to pay tax here.

[duanebigsby]

There is a form you should have filed with Revenue Canada regarding residency status and the requirement to pay Canadian tax. You may be deemed still a resident of Canada and you might have many years of tax returns to fill.

 

Odd that you say you don't need to file Canadian tax but worried about an audit.

 

There is no visa/work permit for teaching online. So many will tell you it's illegal but it doesn't fall under Thai Labour rules.  

 

You can get a Thai tax number without a work permit if you really wanted to pay Thai tax. It's not complicated.

[duanebigsby]

2 hours ago, cms22 said:

I'm no expert but am sure the only way you can pay tax is by getting a work permit...

Not true.

 

[duanebigsby]

4 minutes ago, theonetrueaussie said:

Go see a good Immigration lawyer they can set you up with a work permit and if your income comes from outside the country you do not even have to pay tax here.

There's no work permit for online work.

[theonetrueaussie]

but there is a work permit for teaching and if he is teaching overseas then he most likely will not have to pay tax. Like I said go see a good immigration lawyer and explain your situation. I know of a few people who work online here and have work permits from immigration lawyers so better to go see them and discuss your situation.

[duanebigsby]

24 minutes ago, theonetrueaussie said:

but there is a work permit for teaching and if he is teaching overseas then he most likely will not have to pay tax. Like I said go see a good immigration lawyer and explain your situation. I know of a few people who work online here and have work permits from immigration lawyers so better to go see them and discuss your situation.

There's a work permit for teaching for a Thai school in Thailand. There is no work permit to teach Chinese kids for a Chinese company while in Thailand.

There is no way I believe you know people who have gotten work permits for online work.

[LivinLOS]

55 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

There's no work permit for online work.

and also non Thai sourced income is still taxable.. 

 

Basically as wrong a 2 part answer as its possible to give.. Makes you wonder why some people feel the need to comment when they clearly have no knowledge of the subject. 

[ExpatDraco]

but there is a work permit for teaching and if he is teaching overseas then he most likely will not have to pay tax. Like I said go see a good immigration lawyer and explain your situation. I know of a few people who work online here and have work permits from immigration lawyers so better to go see them and discuss your situation.

Do you, or someone else, know a good immigration lawyer in or near Pattaya? Thanks. :)

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[4MyEgo]

I do work online occasionally for clients in Australia, I am from Australia, I do not need a work permit to work online in Thailand regardless of visa's as far as I am concerned as it has nothing to do with the Thai government.

 

I do although have to pay tax back in Australia, as any income derived from within Australia by a non resident (me) is deemed taxable, i.e. 32.5c in every $, the money goes into my Australian bank account, although of late I have been getting paid in my wife's account who has a different name, she doesn't lodge a tax return, and if it hits the fan, well she will just have to explain where the $'s came from, in the even she is audited, but living in Thailand just makes it more fun...lol

Edited July 8, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[BigDaddy66]

If everything is made abroad, and you don't have activity with people living in Thailand, you are in a gray zone. Some immigration managers said in the past they tolerate people making consulting abroad from their Thai residency as long as nothing Thai is involved.

So, in your case, make an offshore company with bank account in Delaware or in England, close your window when you work on your computer, receive your money abroad, then go to the ATM or make bank transfers (there are as well some offshoring possibilities in Canada when you are a Canadian citizen). And everything will be fine as long as nobody in Thailand is involved.
 

Edited July 9, 2018 by BigDaddy66

[rwdrwdrwd]

1 hour ago, BigDaddy66 said:

If everything is made abroad, and you don't have activity with people living in Thailand, you are in a gray zone. Some immigration managers said in the past they tolerate people making consulting abroad from their Thai residency as long as nothing Thai is involved.

So, in your case, make an offshore company with bank account in Delaware or in England, close your window when you work on your computer, receive your money abroad, then go to the ATM or make bank transfers (there are as well some offshoring possibilities in Canada when you are a Canadian citizen). And everything will be fine as long as nobody in Thailand is involved.
 

Why incorporate an online business in the US or UK where there's corporate tax and expensive yearly accounting and bureaucracy required? Plenty of perfectly legal jurisdictions that are easier and far cheaper (in terms of both time and money) - Seychelles, Panama, and Belize for example.

In terms of Thai income tax, non Thai sourced income that is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned is subject to it.

Optimal solution is

1 - Incorporate in a jurisdiction that does not tax foreign derived income (for example the three I mentioned - Hong Kong is another but that requires yearly audited accounts to be filed).
2 - Open a personal bank account in another jurisdiction that does not tax foreign income of non residents (HK or Singapore). This can not be where you reside, where you are from, or where the company is incorporated, .
3 - Pay yourself in dividends from the company to your personal account.
4 - Only remit income from the offshore personal account into Thailand once the next January 1st is passed (new tax year)

Example:

- Company registered in Belize with bank account in Cyprus (plenty of online offshore incorporation services offer this for about $10000 USD)
- Personal offshore bank account in Hong Kong
- Invoice clients from Belize  - No corporation tax applied to non Belize derived income
- Pay yourself dividends to personal account in Hong Kong - No income tax applied to non HK sourced earnings
- Transfer to Thailand after January 1st  - No income tax applied to non Thai sourced income remitted in the next tax year to which it was earned.

Payoneer is good for payments, but would have it under the company name.

Edited July 9, 2018 by rwdrwdrwd

[Rhys]

What is the official version .. is on-line teaching, require a work permit?

[duanebigsby]

42 minutes ago, Rhys said:

What is the official version .. is on-line teaching, require a work permit?

How can online teaching require a work permit when none is obtainable?

There is NO work permit for online work!!!!!

It's tolerated.

[duanebigsby]

58 minutes ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

Why incorporate an online business in the US or UK where there's corporate tax and expensive yearly accounting and bureaucracy required? Plenty of perfectly legal jurisdictions that are easier and far cheaper (in terms of both time and money) - Seychelles, Panama, and Belize for example.

In terms of Thai income tax, non Thai sourced income that is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned is subject to it.

Optimal solution is

1 - Incorporate in a jurisdiction that does not tax foreign derived income (for example the three I mentioned - Hong Kong is another but that requires yearly audited accounts to be filed).
2 - Open a personal bank account in another jurisdiction that does not tax foreign income of non residents (HK or Singapore). This can not be where you reside, where you are from, or where the company is incorporated, .
3 - Pay yourself in dividends from the company to your personal account.
4 - Only remit income from the offshore personal account into Thailand once the next January 1st is passed (new tax year)

Example:

- Company registered in Belize with bank account in Cyprus (plenty of online offshore incorporation services offer this for about $10000 USD)
- Personal offshore bank account in Hong Kong
- Invoice clients from Belize  - No corporation tax applied to non Belize derived income
- Pay yourself dividends to personal account in Hong Kong - No income tax applied to non HK sourced earnings
- Transfer to Thailand after January 1st  - No income tax applied to non Thai sourced income remitted in the next tax year to which it was earned.

Payoneer is good for payments, but would have it under the company name.

Good grief both of you.

 

Teach online, have money sent to Paypal Canada, withdraw money.

[rwdrwdrwd]

8 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

Good grief both of you.

 

Teach online, have money sent to Paypal Canada, withdraw money.

Deal with the expensive and time consuming audits of your business accounts that you are required to have kept, and providing itemised proof that none of the payments are Canadian sourced, when the CRA detect you have undeclared personal income arriving to a Canada based financial entity every month and launch an investigation.

Just because it isn't going to a bank account doesn't mean it's not accessible by the Canadian tax authorities.

Canada - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-money/paypal-ordered-to-provide-cra-with-information-about-business-accounts/article36983946/

US - http://www.andra-cpa.com/blog.html?entry=selling-on-ebay-triggered-irs

 

UK - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/income-tax/ebay-and-paypal-users-face-huge-tax-crackdown/

I'd rather pay $1000 ($10000 was a typo) one time setup fee and $300 maintenance fees a year and not have to ever worry about doing any paperwork whatsoever. Recouped with the savings on PayPal fees anyway.

Edited July 9, 2018 by rwdrwdrwd

[BigDaddy66]

19 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

Why incorporate an online business in the US or UK where there's corporate tax and expensive yearly accounting and bureaucracy required?

 

    => They are the cheapest and easiest solutions once you know how to make it by yourself. My Delaware company cost me 120$ per year. No accountancy. No paperwork. 70$ to open.

 

 

 

19 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

Plenty of perfectly legal jurisdictions that are easier and far cheaper (in terms of both time and money) - Seychelles, Panama, and Belize for example.

 

 

    => These solutions are much more expansive and less reliable.

 

 

Anyway this doens't change anything to the original post's problem.

 

++

 

 

 

 

[duanebigsby]

He's online teaching. He'll get 12 income statements from the Chinese company. He'll deduct 12 internet monthly charges and claim a percentage of rent for his office. Maybe a few deductions for stuffed animals and webcam headset. How complicated can his self-employment earnings declaration be?

You guys are talking needing accounting, setting up a business etc. I think that's overthinking it for maybe $2500 bucks a month from home.

[BigDaddy66]

19 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

 I think that's overthinking it for maybe $2500 bucks a month from home.

 

Tax if received as salary in Thailand (80 000b / month)

(https://www.thaistartup.com/references/pitc.php)

Remaining income to be earned this year (80,000.00 x 12 months)

Taxable annual net income:     800,000.00฿

Total Tax Amount:    75,000.00
 

+ Thai company fees + Work permit fees + Thai paperwork + Thai lawyers fees etc...

 

Better to keep everything abroad, close the window, never do anything with anybody in Thailand, and bring back the funds later.

[duanebigsby]

3 hours ago, BigDaddy66 said:

 

Tax if received as salary in Thailand (80 000b / month)

(https://www.thaistartup.com/references/pitc.php)

Remaining income to be earned this year (80,000.00 x 12 months)

Taxable annual net income:     800,000.00฿

Total Tax Amount:    75,000.00
 

+ Thai company fees + Work permit fees + Thai paperwork + Thai lawyers fees etc...

 

Better to keep everything abroad, close the window, never do anything with anybody in Thailand, and bring back the funds later.

Absolutely none of that is relevant for a guy teaching English to Chinese kids online.

How can there be Work permit fees? You can't get a WP for this.

I agree Chinese company sends the pay to overseas account.

[LivinLOS]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:49 PM, Rhys said:

What is the official version .. is on-line teaching, require a work permit?

 

Yes.. As per labour department and employment offices statements over and over. 

 

One will not be easy to obtain, and there is little to no enforcement, but the official line is 100% online work, without any Thai clients or connections, is still work. 

[duanebigsby]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Yes.. As per labour department and employment offices statements over and over. 

 

One will not be easy to obtain, and there is little to no enforcement, but the official line is 100% online work, without any Thai clients or connections, is still work. 

Completely wrong. Debated over and over. People are working in community offices online all the time legally.

[metisdead]

A post in which the quoted content had been altered has been removed as well as a reply:

 

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[GOLDBUGGY]

It is obvious that you are a Non-Resident of Canada for Income Tax purposes so nothing to worry about having money deposited into your Canadian Bank Account. You are not breaking any laws or expected to pay Income Tax on that earned money. 

 

You are only subjected to Income Taxes on money earned in Canada. So on a Savings Account and if your money earns interest, than you would be technically subjected to paying taxes only on this interest. But with a high threshold before paying any taxes, you are likely to not have to pay any. Capital Gains on Stocks is tax free, and taxes on Dividends is only 15% and deduced from the source, so you never have to file. 

[strikingsunset]

Sorry to veer of the precise topic itself.

I am currently living in Shanghai ( UK citizen) I am looking to do some English teaching online.

Would appreciate a guide to  good company ( or companies) to work with and conditions

and pay rates involved.

many thanks