Some thoughts after the Chiang Rai rescue

[toofarnorth]

15 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

For me it was not apples and hammer, but cherries and dogs...those were the good old days...

As far as I know, it was not the bikes that revealed their location, but one of their friends who knew that they were in the cave.

You could be right thanks , I don't remember reading that.

[Brunolem]

8 minutes ago, toofarnorth said:

You could be right thanks , I don't remember reading that.

This was in the article about the coach, which I posted yesterday in the thread dedicated to him...

[HooHaa]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Yes, in the UK.

Neither do you have any say regarding the coach, or what I say' thank heaven.

to clarify, as you seem to have had difficulty understanding, thailand is not the UK.

they are radically different places.

but i appreciate you went to alot of trouble writing a post on how things are in the uk, so i suppose your cutting and pasting it into every thread you can is understandable.

[Antonymous]

Top thought for me now is how the media and junta are going to play the fact that some of the kids (six?) are 'stateless'. Media exploration of the reasons why these kids born in Thailand receive none of the benefits of Thai citizenship, like freedom of travel within the kingdom, a full state education, chance of getting a passport and traveling to another country, for example, could reopen this can of worms.

 

Many on here don't seem to realise that without Thai citizenship they cannot receive any of the gifts that have been bandied around, such as being funded for a higher education, or traveling to Russia or the UK to watch a football match.

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Antonymous said:

Top thought for me now is how the media and junta are going to play the fact that some of the kids (six?) are 'stateless'. Media exploration of the reasons why these kids born in Thailand receive none of the benefits of Thai citizenship, like freedom of travel within the kingdom, a full state education, chance of getting a passport and traveling to another country, for example, could reopen this can of worms.

 

Many on here don't seem to realise that without Thai citizenship they cannot receive any of the gifts that have been bandied around, such as being funded for a higher education, or traveling to Russia or the UK to watch a football match.

Hmmm...

[Searat7]

One thing I don’t understand is how the ex Seal diver ran out of air and died.   Only some of the cave areas were under water and they had placed scuba tanks around the cave. Most experienced divers monitor their air supply so I really don’t understand how this happened. (Not looking for a sarcastic TV response- just genuinely curious)

[Badrabbit]

Top thought for me now is how the media and junta are going to play the fact that some of the kids (six?) are 'stateless'. Media exploration of the reasons why these kids born in Thailand receive none of the benefits of Thai citizenship, like freedom of travel within the kingdom, a full state education, chance of getting a passport and traveling to another country, for example, could reopen this can of worms.

 

Many on here don't seem to realise that without Thai citizenship they cannot receive any of the gifts that have been bandied around, such as being funded for a higher education, or traveling to Russia or the UK to watch a football match.

What do you mean "stateless" they are Thai children, what have I missed? can you explain please? are they Burmese?

 

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[Brunolem]

4 minutes ago, Searat7 said:

One thing I don’t understand is how the ex Seal diver ran out of air and died.   Only some of the cave areas were under water and they had placed scuba tanks around the cave. Most experienced divers monitor their air supply so I really don’t understand how this happened. (Not looking for a sarcastic TV response- just genuinely curious)

It seems that he took a canister that hadn't been filled up...

[Brunolem]

9 minutes ago, Antonymous said:

Top thought for me now is how the media and junta are going to play the fact that some of the kids (six?) are 'stateless'. Media exploration of the reasons why these kids born in Thailand receive none of the benefits of Thai citizenship, like freedom of travel within the kingdom, a full state education, chance of getting a passport and traveling to another country, for example, could reopen this can of worms.

 

Many on here don't seem to realise that without Thai citizenship they cannot receive any of the gifts that have been bandied around, such as being funded for a higher education, or traveling to Russia or the UK to watch a football match.

I didn't know that...could you elaborate, or provide a useful link?

[BangkokSausage]

Chiang Rai and that cave will get a boost in tourism. Now that the drama is over I would love to see that cave and surrounding area. looks quite nice , very lush and green. Hopefully a statue will be a erected of the fallen diver so people can pay respect and a plaque with a brief description of the events so future generations can learn about it

[Badrabbit]

It seems that he took a canister that hadn't been filled up...

How could anyone know that other then the deceased when he went to use it?

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[DanaDeLuxe]

Some of them seem to be Hilltribe people. I do hope this helps to get them proper papers for themselves and their families. Best would be full Thai citizenship.

[Cake Monster]

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

In the UK, all pots (caves) that may be hazardous (Tham Luang certainly falls into this category) have their entrances gated and locked. Some just appear as a small hole, barely large enough for a man to squeeze through but open out into much larger cave systems. These are secured by the local speleological societies and to gain access you must apply, in advance, to them and prove your capability as a potholer to enter said cave. Also, the party is logged in and out by the keyholder. Larger caves that are open to the public generally have their access controlled by the cave owner. Before entering any cave system it's normal practice to check the weather forecast for the time you plan to be in there from a reliable source (normally the Met Office). Had these basic precautions been followed, none of this would have happened. As for the coach, I can understand him not following any basic safety precautions as this isn't normal practice in Thailand. What really baffles me is why he led them 4km into the cave system, barefoot with no hard hats. If he had only gone as far as the first large cave and had his picnic there he would have easily led the party out when the water started to rise. The route they took was the same as the route used to rescue them, a route difficult enough that, even when dry, should only be attempted by experienced cavers with the appropriate equipment.

Guy was irresponsible and unthinking and seriously endangered the lives of the children in his charge. Personally, I wouldn't want to see him prosecuted as he knew no better but would ensure that he was never put in charge of children again.

Hopefully, the Thai authorities will restrict the access to all caves in Thailand (not just Tham Luang, which is what is currently proposed) but I won't hold my breath.

 

A well worded and factually correct post as far as the Pots /Caves go in the UK.

However, the Assistance Coach fellow had no training in caving, probably as non is available.

Its OK for us to criticize his actions of the 23 rd July, but this is Thailand, where people pretty much do as they please, when they want to.

These kids had entered the cave to write their names on the walls inside !. A practice that is completely taboo in the UK.

The Coach only went along as some kind of adult to look after the kids, not as an experienced cave guide, and there you have the issue or problem.

Complete ignorance by all involved that led to this incident in the first place.

Until the Caves of Thailand are secured in the same manner as the UK caves, there will continue to be incidents such as this in the future.

[natway09]

It did not take Idman to show his true thoughts on anything Thai did it ?

[pgrahmm]

28 minutes ago, Searat7 said:

One thing I don’t understand is how the ex Seal diver ran out of air and died.   Only some of the cave areas were under water and they had placed scuba tanks around the cave. Most experienced divers monitor their air supply so I really don’t understand how this happened. (Not looking for a sarcastic TV response- just genuinely curious)

Last that I saw they attributed it to a "medical condition".....

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The UK is certainly not an example for the rest of the world and should better focus on its multiple internal problems!

 

What baffles you isn't baffling at all!

They were found deep inside the cave because they were forced to move that far by the incoming flood!

 

What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the TV membership...

 

People who know better, give lessons and of course consider themselves way above the riff raff...

People who follow all the rules and regulations to the letter, who never make mistakes...

People with absolutely no compassion, even for a poor guy who lost both his parents and his brother when he was 10, and that they would like to see sanctioned...

In other words abject people!!!

"The UK is certainly not an example for the rest of the world".

How right you are, but it is not for this topic.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The UK is certainly not an example for the rest of the world and should better focus on its multiple internal problems!

 

What baffles you isn't baffling at all!

They were found deep inside the cave because they were forced to move that far by the incoming flood!

 

What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the TV membership...

 

People who know better, give lessons and of course consider themselves way above the riff raff...

People who follow all the rules and regulations to the letter, who never make mistakes...

People with absolutely no compassion, even for a poor guy who lost both his parents and his brother when he was 10, and that they would like to see sanctioned...

In other words abject people!!!

"What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the 'TV membership". That's very true, but they are still very much in the minority.

[Badrabbit]

"What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the 'TV membership". That's very true, but they are still very much in the minority.

There are nasty characters everywhere but they are in the minority thank god!

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[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Poor old Cecil...

Fat,unheroic, manipulative and...dead.

 

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Poor old Cecil...

Fat,unheroic, manipulative and...dead.

 

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Poor old Cecil...

Fat,unheroic, manipulative and...dead.

I am trying to reply to a post, there are three posts here, but it is not any of them. What's happened?

[NoshowJones]

35 minutes ago, BangkokSausage said:

Chiang Rai and that cave will get a boost in tourism. Now that the drama is over I would love to see that cave and surrounding area. looks quite nice , very lush and green. Hopefully a statue will be a erected of the fallen diver so people can pay respect and a plaque with a brief description of the events so future generations can learn about it

Yes, I agree, as long as it is not used for a money making exercise in any way.

[Rhys]

...comparision.. Flags of our fathers,  what happened to the flag bearers...   Wish them the best to get on with their lives... hope they can follow directions better both in Thai and English.  

 

Anyway to all the volunteers... and the synchronicity of the event...kudos.... time to move on and learn from this...

 

[Brunolem]

26 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the 'TV membership". That's very true, but they are still very much in the minority.

Thank God for small favors...

[Brunolem]

12 minutes ago, Rhys said:

what happened to the flag bearers...   

 

They are all in Walking Street, Pattaya, followed by herds of Chinese tourists...

[Rori ban khun fang]

For me without considering the good end I also have same with my Thai wife and her friends some questions on the total.

 

As we have seen sketches and movies from inside the cave we are wondered and have a lot of questions in this.

 

1. Why when shelter for the rain go inside the cave almost 4 km. Considering:

In the cave there are very narrow passages where you have to climb up a slope and crawl through narrow slits to get to the far end.

When shelter for rain normally you would stay near the entrance and not wander deep inside.

They did pass at least 5 chambers and did pass throught almost impossible slits inside the cave.

 

Also as they missed:

a. Climbing gear.

b. Warm clothing

c. No lights or lamps with them etc.

 

When they were found the clothes from the kids were in a state like comming from the cabinet at home. They did not change clothing almost 2 weeks and were in a muddy surroundings.

When in a wet surroundigs your clothes will never dry when wash them.

 

2. Whe we take this event towards a global issue while at the same time.

a. In thai traffic in at about 18 days almost 1200 people did die as there are at about 26000 deadly casualties a year

b. In Sea of Andaman the boat with chinese touriste capsized with as for now 44 dead and 16 still missing.

c. Why the governor immediately claims to make the cave a tourist hot spot.

d. Why from Hollyshit they are already thinking to make a movie on this event

e. How many people in Japan have to die more than the 140 up till now before the news channels shows us.

f. With the rescue one thai diver died. Why and how and why we not hear on this anymore. It seems like it is???

g. In Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Irak etc kids are being killed by suicide attacks by any kind of bombing. This is no more on the news.

 

A lot more news can be written here with more cassualties than the maximum of 12 people in the cave. Also the age difference at 11 to 16 makes me wonder. In the whole world as we discuss football or soccer teams are set up in age levels.

I am wondering the age mix and set up of the group.

 

As far as I know and this is the old "European" system we have groups devided in age ranges. Oh same in Thailand or it might differ slightly but this is just an indication.

 

5 - 6 mini's

7-8 F teams

9-10 E teams

11-12 D teams

13 - 14 C teams

15 - 16 B teams

17 - 18 A teams

 

With good players they can be upgraded never downgraded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

I thought the events at Tham Luang Cave where a welcome distraction from a world that seems increasingly nationalistic and downright nasty ... the World came together in Thailand and achieved something amazing, demonstrating the better angels of our nature. 

 

If only it could stay that way?

[Brunolem]

33 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"The UK is certainly not an example for the rest of the world".

How right you are, but it is not for this topic.

Right!

And I didn't bring the issue, just answered to a poster who dropped a mouthful of British greatness...

 

I tried to open the thread with a nice/zen like post, and the first four or five posters apparently took pleasure to trash it, so I got a little pissed...

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, Brunolem said:

Right!

And I didn't bring the issue, just answered to a poster who dropped a mouthful of British greatness...

 

I tried to open the thread with a nice/zen like post, and the first four or five posters apparently took pleasure to trash it, so I got a little pissed...

Yes. I know what you mean, but not to worry.

[ChidlomDweller]

A Thai colleague told me it's common knowledge in Chiang Rai that this cave is prone to flash flooding and dangerous to enter even in May or June.  That coach definitely can't blame ignorance, misleading signage, etc.  He just thought caution is for fuddy-duddies.

[Spidey]

 

3 hours ago, HooHaa said:

to clarify, as you seem to have had difficulty understanding, thailand is not the UK.

they are radically different places.

but i appreciate you went to alot of trouble writing a post on how things are in the uk, so i suppose your cutting and pasting it into every thread you can is understandable.

 

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Right!

And I didn't bring the issue, just answered to a poster who dropped a mouthful of British greatness...

 

I tried to open the thread with a nice/zen like post, and the first four or five posters apparently took pleasure to trash it, so I got a little pissed...

 

I realise that Thailand is not the UK but I made the post as an illustration of how easy and cost effective it would be to prevent such an incident from happening again, in Thailand.

 

The Thais willingly accepted our help in rescuing the children (admittedly a surprise to me) maybe they would accept our help in ensuring it doesn't happen again. Remember, prevention is better than cure.

 

I reposted it in a second thread (not every thread) as, at the time, this thread didn't seem to have any legs, probably due to the rambling and incoherent OP.

 

Not a mouthful of British greatness, just trying to help.

[DavidAlexander]

I can only assume the Thia Immigration gestapo will now swoop in and ask for proper visas and work permits from the foreign experts who came to help. Sorry guys, but rules are rules....