Ragu Rustic Italiano, Promenada

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

A cheeseburger as McD costs what, 99 baht or so I would guess, yet a cheeseburger at a specialty burger restaurant in CM can set you back around 350 baht, there would be no comparison between the two products other than the name is the same. Yet oddly, some people actually like 99 baht McD cheeseburgers over any alternatives, is that pallet, pricing, or whatever, who knows. But I do know that trying to compare a 50 baht homemade pizza to a pizza made at somewhere such as the Dukes, and concluding the homemade pizza is better, is fantasy.

I can assure you the Duke's pizzas (medium) don't contain more than 50bht of ingredients.

The expensive item being 20bht of mozzarella cheese. (unless they are wildly overpaying their suppliers).

 

One of the many problems I have with posters on this forum is their extreme ignorance.

They usually only shop in places like Rimping, and pay 2x to 3x the price for everything that can be sourced locally.

Even Tesco Lotus charges nearly 2x the price for bread flour that is sold in Thai cooking supply shops (4x the price for butter).

Edited July 26, 2018 by BritManToo

[simoh1490]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I can assure you the Duke's pizzas (medium) don't contain more than 50bht of ingredients.

The expensive item being 20bht of mozzarella cheese. (unless they are wildly overpaying their suppliers).

 

One of the many problems I have with posters on this forum is their extreme ignorance.

They usually only shop in places like Rimping, and pay 2x to 3x the price for everything that can be sourced locally.

Even Tesco Lotus charges nearly 2x the price for bread flour that is sold in Thai cooking supply shops (4x the price for butter).

Again that's nonsense! I've lived here for 16 years and we shop mostly at local markets, not that where people shop has anything whatsoever to do with what's being discussed.

[Trujillo]

Quote

 

I can assure you the Duke's pizzas (medium) don't contain more than 50bht of ingredients.

The expensive item being 20bht of mozzarella cheese. (unless they are wildly overpaying their suppliers).

 

Well, go buy some sausage and pepperoni and find out how much that costs. My guess it's more than the cheese. 

And of course, the main cost of the food for an owner is not the food. It's the rent, the utilities and the salaries of the workers (oh, and insurance as well). Then there is the cost of the equipment and all the fittings (decor as well as cutlery and so on).  

 

If Duke's or Ragu were pop-ups on the street illegally, then they could charge less. 

 

Quote

One of the many problems I have with posters on this forum is their extreme ignorance.

Eh, yep.... ? I see what you mean....

[junglechef]

On 7/25/2018 at 2:30 PM, elektrified said:

Actually, according to a relative who works at the Prom, farang customers (both those that are there for Immigration and those not), only account for less than 10% of the overall business there. So I doubt that Immigration leaving will have any effect on business at Promenada at all.

 

19 hours ago, elektrified said:

The businesses that do very well are Dukes, Rimping, Chi Chang, the sporting goods shop, the Japanese sushi? restaurant, the Japanese ramen shop, KFC, the Korean coffee shop, the Thai food shop, and the cinema as well as the outdoor evening event. This according to a relative who is working there about 3-4 days per week. Of all the businesses she says that it's mostly Rimping and Dukes that get the falang customers.

What are we talking about here again?

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Well, go buy some sausage and pepperoni and find out how much that costs. My guess it's more than the cheese. 

No need to guess, it's a big pizza that has an entire sausage (10Bht, 20 at most).

The base and tomato cost almost nothing.

 

Last pizza (325bht) I had at Duke's had around 5bht of chicken on top (if that).

Couldn't have cost more than 30bht for ingredients, which was why it was my last pizza there.

Edited July 26, 2018 by BritManToo

[junglechef]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No need to guess, it's a big pizza that has an entire sausage (10Bht, 20 at most).

The base and tomato cost almost nothing.

 

Last pizza (325bht) I had at Duke's had around 5bht of chicken on top (if that).

Couldn't have cost more than 30bht for ingredients, which was why it was my last pizza there.

No idea of said restaurant you are speaking of but many places of that size with multiple locations make many things themselves and the last time I checked wholesale pork suitable for grinding was under 100 bht/kg. 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, VIBE said:

Example, my wife sells natural latex mattresses on line, and they go for thousands of baht.  Does that mean there is that much latex in them?  

I can't make a latex mattress myself from raw latex.

I can make a pizza myself (flour, tomato, yeast, mozzarella cheese + toppings).

Edited July 28, 2018 by BritManToo

[moontang]

A friend insisted I try a slice of his Dukes pizza.  It would hardly make the median for pizzas I have eaten over the last fifty+ years, and that would include quite a few school lunch program slices, and Chefboyrdee pizza kits.  Crust was soggy, sauce tasted like tha i ketchup with some crushed red pepper thrown in..fresh veggies made the crust soggy....4.8/10...

[rumak]

I am sorry to admit that i have not made a pizza.   BUT,  my significant other  does.  Makes the dough,

fresh tomatoes for sauce,  mozzarella and cheddar cheese,  fresh vegies,  and some meat sometimes.

For me it is much more delicious than at the places mentioned..  As for the great social atmosphere that

some seem to appreciate...... sorry,  not for me.  I get all i can handle on TV  ?

Total approx. cost:   about 40 baht

[sfokevin]

We regularly eat The Dukes pizza (small one for ~300baht with a salad)  and regularly make my own pizza at home... I end up spending more for ingredients (that are far less tasty) and my pizza while good  would not come close to putting The Dukes out of business! 

 

As for price has anyone tried eating for less at Pizza Company or Pizza Hut?... It is more expensive, thier definition of large is Thai and the only thing they have going for them taste wise is they seem to serve copious amounts of ketchup with thier pizzas... 

 

Btw I will chide The Dukes on the river for one thing... In the past 8 years I have been going there the clock has never had a battery change... Still at 9:50... 

Edited July 28, 2018 by sfokevin

[sfokevin]

17 minutes ago, rumak said:

I am sorry to admit that i have not made a pizza.   BUT,  my significant other  does.  Makes the dough,

fresh tomatoes for sauce,  mozzarella and cheddar cheese,  fresh vegies,  and some meat sometimes.

For me it is much more delicious than at the places mentioned..  As for the great social atmosphere that

some seem to appreciate...... sorry,  not for me.  I get all i can handle on TV  ?

Total approx. cost:   about 40 baht

Can you give us a breakdown of where ingredients such as cheese, meats like sausage & pepperoni can be purchased for less than 40 baht in total?

Edited July 28, 2018 by sfokevin

[rumak]

18 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Btw I will chide The Dukes on the river for one thing... In the past 8 years I have been going there the clock has never had a battery change... Still at 9:50... 

 

15 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Can you give us a breakdown of where ingredients such as cheese, meats like sausage & pepperoni can be purchased for less than 40 baht in total?

sorry , i don't do consulting work.     oh, and can you tell me what comparing a chain restaurants pizza has to do with anything?    Also, since you want breakdowns,  could you tell me the exact price of a dukes pizza from  10 years ago up to the present.   please be precise .  BTW:  i don't get into silly arguments here on TV,   so if you don't believe my estimate.....no need to get worked up about it.  Note:  i do not eat sausage or pepperoni,  but do add some fresh pork on occasion. So do add another 10 baht for when we do    ?

Edited July 28, 2018 by rumak

[sfokevin]

7 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

sorry , i don't do consulting work.     oh, and can you tell me what comparing a chain restaurants pizza has to do with anything?    Also, since you want breakdowns,  could you tell me the exact price of a dukes pizza from  10 years ago up to the present.   please be precise .  BTW:  i don't get into silly arguments here on TV,   so if you don't believe my estimate.....no need to get worked up about it.  Note:  i do not eat sausage or pepperoni,  but do add some fresh pork on occasion.

No but you don’t mind making silly statement about making pizza compatible to Dukes for 40 baht... 

[rumak]

1 minute ago, sfokevin said:

No but you don’t mind making silly statement about making pizza compatible to Dukes for 40 baht... 

wrong again  kevvie......BETTER than dukes !    read my lips    FRESH !

[moontang]

my mom makes crusts with a Panasonic bread machine..says it is pennies per pizza.  Cheese is high here, and you can bet they are measuring it carefully..100 grams on a medium?  maybe...seen almost as many hot dogs on pizzas here as in American Breakfasts..does not belong in either.  But some high qual Gallo salami would be dear here, but what 50 grams per pie, sliced thin enough to see through.  Tax man makes the most on immitation western food.  A sustainable restaurant will know how to use local replacements...you could probably do a good and cheap pepperoni, here.  

Edited July 28, 2018 by moontang

[BritManToo]

56 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Can you give us a breakdown of where ingredients such as cheese, meats like sausage & pepperoni can be purchased for less than 40 baht in total?

Well, I get my shredded Mozerrella cheese from Makro, in the freezer section about 200bht/Kg, bread flour from YoK 32bht/Kg, tomatoes fresh from the market 20bht/Kg, chicken breasts from Tesco Lotus 33bht/350gm, minced pork from Tesco Lotus 60bht/400gm. Nurnberg Sausages from Rimping 120bht/200gm.

 

 

Medium pizza

Mozzarella Cheese costs the most, 30gm/pizza 15bht, the base costs almost nothing 50gm flour 1.6bht/pizza, chicken topping 30gm 3bht, sausage topping 30gm 18bht (although I usually only have 1 topping). = 38bht (2 toppings)

 

I quite like 'Nam prik ong' as a topping, Northern Thai chilli, 50/50 minced beef & tomato cooked with burnt chillis and garlic in a wok. 

 

I keep the unused items in the freezer until next time (I suspect Duke's does the same).

Edited July 28, 2018 by BritManToo

[sfokevin]

^^^ Frozen cheese from Makro... Yummy... 

[Trujillo]

I'm not sure what the point is here after all this is about the food at Ragu. 

 

And BritManToo, you never mention that, as I first pointed out and was joined by others, the basic cost of the ingredients in the meals is not the sole determining factor in pricing a meal. 

 

I said in my earlier post:  "It's the rent, the utilities and the salaries of the workers (oh, and insurance as well). Then there is the cost of the equipment and all the fittings (decor as well as cutlery and so on)."

 

So if you are trying to argue that you can make food at home more cheaply than in a restaurant -- according to food ingredients only -- then fine. No one will argue that. 

If you are arguing that Ragu or Duke's should sell their pizzas at 50 baht each ("cost" as you see it without profit), then you need to give me the recipe for the Kool Aid you are drinking -- sounds marvelous. 

 

So what is your point, exactly? 

 

 

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

^^^ Frozen cheese from Makro... Yummy... 

You think restaurants don't use frozen cheese? and probably frozen pizza base? and frozen everything else?

(or any other pizza place in Thailand) Hint; it takes 2hrs to make a pizza base from fresh ingredients.

Edited July 28, 2018 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

So if you are trying to argue that you can make food at home more cheaply than in a restaurant

 

Stoke asked a question, I answered it.

Apparently, he didn't like the answer as he wants everything in his pizza to be fresh and unfrozen, I'm guessing he isn't happy eating at restaurants in Thailand if he's expecting everything to be freshly made.

 

I never understand the bickering and nitpicking.

Someone thinks you can't make good pizza at home, someone thinks the ingredients are expensive, then they want all fresh, then all homemade, it just goes on and on.

 

Pizza is a cheap filling common man's food, as is almost every version of bread, you want to pay a premium price for cheap food, easily made at home, because the modern world has removed your ability to cook, go ahead. (same for spaghetti dishes, cost almost nothing to make)

Edited July 28, 2018 by BritManToo

[tingtongtourist]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Stoke asked a question, I answered it.

Apparently, he didn't like the answer as he wants everything in his pizza to be fresh and unfrozen, I'm guessing he isn't happy eating at restaurants in Thailand if he's expecting everything to be freshly made.

 

I never understand the bickering and nitpicking.

Someone thinks you can't make good pizza at home, someone thinks the ingredients are expensive, then they want all fresh, then all homemade, it just goes on and on.

 

Pizza is a cheap filling common man's food, as is almost every version of bread, you want to pay a premium price for cheap food, easily made at home, because the modern world has removed your ability to cook, go ahead. (same for spaghetti dishes, cost almost nothing to make)

Its not like our own country where you can make for next to nothing although i found Western food supplies are cheaper in Chiang Mai than Bangkok.

Flour,  real yeast (to make a base that actually rises) cheese, pepperoni. 

tomato paste that should be cooked off, 

oregano added and supplied on the side (not cheap) 

 

If you think you can do under 100-150baht. your dreaming.

 

Even pepperoni you paying over 1000baht/kg for an edible one

 

 

[Trujillo]

BritManToo wrote, "I can make a nice pizza at home for under 50bht, once a restaurant exceeds my 100% extra rule, I consider it 'overpriced'."

...and:

"Last pizza (325bht) I had at Duke's had around 5bht of chicken on top (if that).

Couldn't have cost more than 30bht for ingredients, which was why it was my last pizza there."

 

First, there is no pizza at The Duke's that costs 325 baht: The Duke's Menu

 

Second, do you really think you can get a pizza anywhere at a restaurant for 100 baht? 

Where did you get this arbitrary 100% "rule"?

 

Or are you saying that you never eat at restaurants, and only at food stalls or supermarket food courts?

 

What is this fixation with the price of a meal in a restaurant being solely based on the cost of the individual ingredients?

 

"Profitable restaurants usually keep food costs within 28 to 35 percent of gross income. This applies to the cost of food and waste, employee meals and theft. When you cost food, you analyze how much it costs to make each item on your menu. When you determine overall food cost percentages, you have to include waste.

You can add all your expenses and subtract your inventory to determine total food costs, but pricing foods is a bit trickier. Once you’ve analyzed all the ingredient costs that go into a dish, you can divide the total by 0.35 to get the minimum cost that you need to charge. For example, a filet mignon might cost $6.00. The ingredients for the salad, baked potato and vegetable might total an additional $3.00 for a total cost of $9.00.

When you divide $9.00 by 0.35, you get a minimum cost of $25.71. You might charge $25.99 for a filet mignon entrée or more if similar restaurants get higher prices for a comparable meal."

https://www.gourmetmarketing.net/costing-pricing-food-regular-menus-catering-services-special-events/

 

But I like the line from the WSJ the best: "To be fair, focusing on the cost of a restaurant meal's raw ingredients is like calculating the value of a Picasso based on the cost of the paint."

[moontang]

comparing dead weight THAI workers with Picasso?  Even more of a stretch.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Stoke asked a question, I answered it.

Apparently, he didn't like the answer as he wants everything in his pizza to be fresh and unfrozen, I'm guessing he isn't happy eating at restaurants in Thailand if he's expecting everything to be freshly made.

 

I never understand the bickering and nitpicking.

Someone thinks you can't make good pizza at home, someone thinks the ingredients are expensive, then they want all fresh, then all homemade, it just goes on and on.

 

Pizza is a cheap filling common man's food, as is almost every version of bread, you want to pay a premium price for cheap food, easily made at home, because the modern world has removed your ability to cook, go ahead. (same for spaghetti dishes, cost almost nothing to make)

BritMan.....you see that i dropped out of this fight...uh, i mean thread,  long ago.  There is the gang that

loves to be confrontational....read the names on the posts here and it becomes evident.  Same thing over and over:   I am smart,  I am right.....You ain't never going to win,  as they don't care.  Now they will go back to attacking me   haha    glad i can give them some fodder for their plate  

VOICE OF REASON :   different people have different tastes.  when you voice your tastes on TV,  the sharks will surface.  

Edited July 28, 2018 by rumak

[rumak]

46 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

BritManToo wrote, "I can make a nice pizza at home for under 50bht, once a restaurant exceeds my 100% extra rule, I consider it 'overpriced'."

...and:

"Last pizza (325bht) I had at Duke's had around 5bht of chicken on top (if that).

Couldn't have cost more than 30bht for ingredients, which was why it was my last pizza there."

 

First, there is no pizza at The Duke's that costs 325 baht: The Duke's Menu

 

Second, do you really think you can get a pizza anywhere at a restaurant for 100 baht? 

Where did you get this arbitrary 100% "rule"?

 

Or are you saying that you never eat at restaurants, and only at food stalls or supermarket food courts?

 

What is this fixation with the price of a meal in a restaurant being solely based on the cost of the individual ingredients?

 

"Profitable restaurants usually keep food costs within 28 to 35 percent of gross income. This applies to the cost of food and waste, employee meals and theft. When you cost food, you analyze how much it costs to make each item on your menu. When you determine overall food cost percentages, you have to include waste.

You can add all your expenses and subtract your inventory to determine total food costs, but pricing foods is a bit trickier. Once you’ve analyzed all the ingredient costs that go into a dish, you can divide the total by 0.35 to get the minimum cost that you need to charge. For example, a filet mignon might cost $6.00. The ingredients for the salad, baked potato and vegetable might total an additional $3.00 for a total cost of $9.00.

When you divide $9.00 by 0.35, you get a minimum cost of $25.71. You might charge $25.99 for a filet mignon entrée or more if similar restaurants get higher prices for a comparable meal."

https://www.gourmetmarketing.net/costing-pricing-food-regular-menus-catering-services-special-events/

 

But I like the line from the WSJ the best: "To be fair, focusing on the cost of a restaurant meal's raw ingredients is like calculating the value of a Picasso based on the cost of the paint."

Now here is a man that i can honestly say:    Google is his friend !

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

Or are you saying that you never eat at restaurants, and only at food stalls or supermarket food courts?

I generally eat at home.

But do confess to the occasional 70bht red chicken curry & rice at Khualek Cafe on the river next to the Iron Bridge.

A way better setting than the Duke's, with tables right on the riverside, and you can shop in Rimping across the road after.

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

Last pizza (325bht) I had at Duke's had around 5bht of chicken on top (if that).

Couldn't have cost more than 30bht for ingredients, which was why it was my last pizza there."

 

First, there is no pizza at The Duke's that costs 325 baht: The Duke's Menu

 

There was 3 years ago, when I stopped going.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, tingtongtourist said:

Its not like our own country where you can make for next to nothing although i found Western food supplies are cheaper n Chiang  Mai.

2

Apart from cheese, almost all western ingredients are cheaper in Thailand.

Did have a problem sourcing Malt extract and Black treacle for my Malt loaf last week, had to use substitutions of Ovaltine (62% malt extract) 28bht cheaper than UK, and Caramelized Organic dark syrup (can't taste or see the difference) 106bht double UK price, both from Rimping.

Edited July 28, 2018 by BritManToo

[Trujillo]

Quote

But do confess to the occasional 70bht red chicken curry & rice at Khualek Cafe on the river next to the Iron Bridge.

Okay, I get it. 

You're one of those foreigners who lives a meagre existence here and a 70 baht meal is a splurge. And that's fine. I know some people like that. 

But there are people who have money here and don't need to scrimp all round. 

I would suggest you brew your own beer, though. Much cheaper. And if you get it right, quite drinkable. 

 

I am a bit surprised you shop at Rimping. Other than speciality items, which are overpriced and therefore, by your reasoning, should not be purchased, you can get good quality foodstuffs at the fresh markets or in Makro or Tesco. 

[moontang]

51 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Apart from cheese, almost all western ingredients are cheaper in Thailand.

Did have a problem sourcing Malt extract and Black treacle for my Malt loaf last week, had to use substitutions of Ovaltine (62% malt extract) 28bht cheaper than UK, and Caramelized Organic dark syrup (can't taste or see the difference) 106bht double UK price, both from Rimping.

a farmer friend gets a little over 2 THB per Kg of italian cooking tomatoes in California...I doubt they can do that here.  Olives?  much less in US.