Separating from the Mother of my children...

[Clifford S]

Hi

 

So first let me say I am checking with my Thai lawyer, just thought I'd like to hear from any members who've been what I'm about to go through ....

 

So I was with my ex for about 10 years. We were NEVER married. We do have 2 kids age 6 & 12. Sort of lived apart most of the time for the past few years with both of us taking care of the kids and me taking care of ALL the costs of everything. Now that I don't want to live in the same house anymore I've received a letter from her lawyer claiming part of my assets which are basically a few properties here in Thailand.

 

I haven't worked in 15 years and bought the properties with cash I brought in from the UK. Ps She hasn't worked either !

 

So 2 questions ...

 

What about UK assets ?

Anyone been in the same before here in LOS, did it go to court and if so what was the split ?

 

Cheers

Cliffy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[swissie]

Must be more specific:
- Not LEGALLY married (only Temple wedding or none at all)?
- Not having lived with her under the same roof for the last 5 years uninterrupted?
- What kind of "a few properties in Thailand" are you talking about? Is she involved in any way concerning those properties? (Property on her land, for example.)
Without those specifics, advice can not be given.
Cheers.

 

[Clifford S]

1 minute ago, swissie said:

Must be more specific:
- Not LEGALLY married (only Temple wedding or none at all)?
- Not having lived with her under the same roof for the last 5 years uninterrupted?
- What kind of "a few properties in Thailand" are you talking about? Is she involved in any way concerning those properties? (Property on her land, for example.)
Without those specifics, advice can not be given.
Cheers.

 

 

Hi Swissie,

 

No Wedding at all, not legal or Temple, hence no documentation etc.

 

Actually we have been under the same roof but not at the same time. ie for about the past 3 years we'd do a one month on one month off rota !

 

She hadnt even seen the kids for the past 6 months, just came back one month ago and decided she wanted to stay...

Properties incl one condo, one leasehold apartment, and a couple of properties held in Thai companies of which she is not on, and nothing to do with her with respect to any land of hers (she doesn't actually have any assets at all)....

 

Cheers

CLIFFY

 

 

 

 

[swissie]

20 minutes ago, Clifford S said:

 

Hi Swissie,

 

No Wedding at all, not legal or Temple, hence no documentation etc.

 

Actually we have been under the same roof but not at the same time. ie for about the past 3 years we'd do a one month on one month off rota !

 

She hadnt even seen the kids for the past 6 months, just came back one month ago and decided she wanted to stay...

Properties incl one condo, one leasehold apartment, and a couple of properties held in Thai companies of which she is not on, and nothing to do with her with respect to any land of hers (she doesn't actually have any assets at all)....

 

Cheers

CLIFFY

 

 

 

 

Under these circumstances: A Thai Man would just walk away and support the kids on a voluntary basis. Legally, she has no leg to stand on.
Caution: As long as your lawyer is Thai, he may be tempted to "partially satisfy the lady" (after all she is also Thai and you are only a rich Farang).
Be prepaired that your lawyer and her lawyer will co-operate and eventually present you with a "mutually satisfiying settlement". You can accept or decline. (Or accept part of it, up to you).
Cheers.

[Clifford S]

6 minutes ago, swissie said:

Under these circumstances: A Thai Man would just walk away and support the kids on a voluntary basis. Legally, she has no leg to stand on.
Caution: As long as your lawyer is Thai, he may be tempted to "partially satisfy the lady" (after all she is also Thai and you are only a rich Farang).
Be prepaired that your lawyer and her lawyer will co-operate and eventually present you with a "mutually satisfiying settlement". You can accept or decline. (Or accept part of it, up to you).
Cheers.

 

Thanks Swissie, actually I've known my Thai lawyer for 15 years, so I do believe he's on my side.

 

although in one of his emails he did state :

 

the court will consider that two of you as a non-registered partnership while two of you lived together

 

Which makes me a tad concerned !...

 

[swissie]

QUOTE: "the court will consider that two of you as a non-registered partnership while two of you lived together"

= Only if having lived together for the last 5 years under the same roof! (The 5 year clause, while not directly incorporated in the text, will serve as a guideline in a court of law, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL-THAILAND.)

That is the way this paragraph is implemented and interpreted when 2 Thai-Nationals are involved. But as I mentioned above, you are just a rich Farang, where the "Law of the Land" must be "adjusted" accordingly. You are a Farang and this is Thailand and I was therefore expecting a "creative and very broad interpretation" of this particular paragraph of the law in your case. (Greeings to your lawyer).

You can go an alternative route: The Thai-route

.
- Abandon contact with lawyer and patiently await what the other side will do after that. Do uphold financial support for the kids. As you write, the lady is financially not well established. It costs a lot of money to entertain an ongoing court-battle, that may last for 2 to 3 years.

Best way to go: Privately offer the lady ongoing support for the kids and possibly offer her some kind of "pension". As long as she sighns a contract, clearly indicating that she has no claim concerning your investements. (I suspect that the claim with regard to your "properties", originates from certain Family-Members and not necesserely from her).

Best way to go. Better than meeting some family members eventually, them eqipped with some machetes, wanting to discuss legal matters with you in some dark alley at 3 AM.

Remember: A Thai Male National, sensing that his marriage may eventually end up "on the rocks", will make damm sure that he will not live under the same roof with the lady for an uninterrupted period of 5 years. Especially not in Rural-Thailand.
Good luck, the stars and even the Thai-Laws are in your favour if you play your cards right.
Cheers.

[Clifford S]

Thanks Swissie,

 

although she's not financially well off I'm sure some of the family or other EX-wives will help financially....

Looks like I need to investigate this 5 years living together/or not more thoroughly....

 

Mind you she has declared on a Tabiian Baan she lived in one of the properties whilst my retirement visas have been listed as a different property for about  8 years. Will this help when it comes to "the same roof" discussions I wonder ....

 

B Regards

Cliffy

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, Clifford S said:

I've received a letter from her lawyer claiming part of my assets

Chuck letter in the bin.

If you haven't married her at the Amphur office, she's entitled to nothing.

No palimony or child support for unmarried women in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Clifford S said:

although in one of his emails he did state :

the court will consider that two of you as a non-registered partnership while two of you lived together

Which makes me a tad concerned !...

 

He's already trying to cheat you, you shouldn't be talking to this guy.

I'm with Swissie, no contact with any other party unless served with a court summons.

[Clifford S]

On 8/1/2018 at 7:00 AM, BritManToo said:

He's already trying to cheat you, you shouldn't be talking to this guy.

I'm with Swissie, no contact with any other party unless served with a court summons.

Thanks Swissie and BritManToo....

Still think the 5 years living together requires further research.

Some Farang must have faced this before here in LOS with an EX, if Not, I can relax perhaps !

 

Cheers

CLIFFY

  

[swissie]

1 hour ago, Clifford S said:

Thanks Swissie and BritManToo....

Still think the 5 years living together requires further research.

Some Farang must have faced this before here in LOS with an EX, if Not, I can relax perhaps !

 

Cheers

CLIFFY

  

This 5 year clause has found entry into courts of law more by taking "precedent cases" into the equasion. Going back for decades.

- 2 scenarios from personal experience.

During my stay in Rural-Thailand, I "witnessed" 3 divorces (Thai/Thai, no Farang involved). All 3 different judges were very much interested in the 5 year clause!
Also "witnessed" a Farang/Thai divorce in Bangkok. At first, the Legal-Eagles came up with "Only applicable to Thai-Nationals". But the Farang insisted on bringing this subject into the dealings (not his Thai-Lawyer). The Farang claiming "discrimination, unequal treatement before the law". Don't know the outcome, his e-mail address seems to have gone "inactive".

Nevermind, the 5 year clause can be disregarded in your case as all other relevant factors would indicate that she is most certainly not entiteled to any of your properties. You can choose to be a "nice guy" and offer further child-support and possibly even include a little "pension" for her.

As an other poster and I have suggested: For now, just lean back and await the actions of "the other side" before you do anything at all. Or pick up the phone and call her (not her lawyer) and explain to her that co-operation on her part would be more beneficial for her than confrontation.
Keep you upper lip stiff, Cliff!
Cheers.

[Clifford S]

7 hours ago, swissie said:

This 5 year clause has found entry into courts of law more by taking "precedent cases" into the equasion. Going back for decades.

- 2 scenarios from personal experience.

During my stay in Rural-Thailand, I "witnessed" 3 divorces (Thai/Thai, no Farang involved). All 3 different judges were very much interested in the 5 year clause!
Also "witnessed" a Farang/Thai divorce in Bangkok. At first, the Legal-Eagles came up with "Only applicable to Thai-Nationals". But the Farang insisted on bringing this subject into the dealings (not his Thai-Lawyer). The Farang claiming "discrimination, unequal treatement before the law". Don't know the outcome, his e-mail address seems to have gone "inactive".

Nevermind, the 5 year clause can be disregarded in your case as all other relevant factors would indicate that she is most certainly not entiteled to any of your properties. You can choose to be a "nice guy" and offer further child-support and possibly even include a little "pension" for her.

As an other poster and I have suggested: For now, just lean back and await the actions of "the other side" before you do anything at all. Or pick up the phone and call her (not her lawyer) and explain to her that co-operation on her part would be more beneficial for her than confrontation.
Keep you upper lip stiff, Cliff!
Cheers.

 

Once again many thanks for your background knowledge and thoughts Swissie ....

 

 

 

 

 

[blackcab]

Several troll posts by a member have been removed, as well as replies to those posts.

 

I would like to thank members for not feeding the troll and for keeping this thread on topic. Please do consider using the report button - it will help the moderating team to deal with this type of behaviour in a more timely manner.

 

The Marriage and Divorce forum is an excellent source of specialised and practical advice, and this type of behaviour will not be tolerated at all.

[Clifford S]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:02 PM, swissie said:

This 5 year clause has found entry into courts of law more by taking "precedent cases" into the equasion. Going back for decades.

- 2 scenarios from personal experience.

During my stay in Rural-Thailand, I "witnessed" 3 divorces (Thai/Thai, no Farang involved). All 3 different judges were very much interested in the 5 year clause!
Also "witnessed" a Farang/Thai divorce in Bangkok. At first, the Legal-Eagles came up with "Only applicable to Thai-Nationals". But the Farang insisted on bringing this subject into the dealings (not his Thai-Lawyer). The Farang claiming "discrimination, unequal treatement before the law". Don't know the outcome, his e-mail address seems to have gone "inactive".

 Nevermind, the 5 year clause can be disregarded in your case as all other relevant factors would indicate that she is most certainly not entiteled to any of your properties. You can choose to be a "nice guy" and offer further child-support and possibly even include a little "pension" for her.

As an other poster and I have suggested: For now, just lean back and await the actions of "the other side" before you do anything at all. Or pick up the phone and call her (not her lawyer) and explain to her that co-operation on her part would be more beneficial for her than confrontation.
Keep you upper lip stiff, Cliff!
Cheers.

 

Hi Swissie

 

In the above post you mentioned 3 divorces, where these REAL DIVORCES ie between a married couple of was it a separation from two people who had lived together more than the 5 years magic number ?

 

Cheers

Cliffy