Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, rumak said:

in reference to blaming myself :  this is not just a reference to relationships.  could be a plumbing error, a planning error, or whatever.   i blame myself in cases where i should have known better,  or did not do something well ( maybe rushed or careless).   in relationships i think that once i see the red flag(s) i should

get out !  i have enough experience to know that they will not go away.   So if i make the mistake of ignoring them ......well, how can i blame the other person ?   

Somchais must like you, they'll blame you for everything they mess up, too. I guess somebody must carry the burden. Your own fault ????

[DrTuner]

5 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Wimmins is only for breedin'. Go MGTW and you become

the most sought after Alpha male... Feel the fun.

Take back control of you life. If you are married,

be the Boss, nothing less.

Seems to be the best advice for men these days. For those that don't know what MGT(o)W is, it's men going their own way. Basically showing the middle finger to expectations and doing whatever the hell they want. The result will be a part reason of the collapse of the western cultures, but hey, even Rome fell. That time it was nepotism with Commodus, this time feminists destroying the family unit.

 

The apocalypse is also coming to Thailand, which seems to lag ~25 years behind west. That would be in the mid 90's then, the last time white man reigned supreme. Been downhill since and now the slide down is starting here, in the last refuge of the white middle aged meat eating straight man. We're all doomed. 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Been downhill since and now the slide down is starting here, in the last refuge of the white middle aged meat eating straight man. We're all doomed. 

There's still Cambodia, Vietnam and the Philippines.

(and you forgot beer-swilling)

Edited December 14, 2018 by BritManToo

[rumak]

52 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Somchais must like you, they'll blame you for everything they mess up, too. I guess somebody must carry the burden. Your own fault ????

don't know what your getting at.   but i don't carry any burdens.  when i mess up i try to fix it.  and when

i have a relationship that does not keep me happy i get out.    you talking about Somchais  pretty much shows your attitude towards thais.....or is it only somchai thais ?

[spidermike007]

Thailand is failing on many levels, and this completely incompetent administration has accelerated that. Hopefully, with a new administration, things will improve. Assuming the Army does not steal the election. Visa policy, the lack of public safety, and traffic safety, no law enforcement, difficult work visa policies, difficult visa policies, making the acquisition of marriage visas harder, and not simpler, a substantial amount of inflation, ridiculous policies when it comes to owning land, houses, and businesses, and many other problems contribute to plague this nation. And that just relates to ex-pats. When it comes to tourists, I totally agree Western tourism numbers are shrinking dramatically.

 

Again, this is a situation where nobody is attempting to get to the root of the problem. Of course, in Thai society, it is not particularly popular to look within for the source of the problem.

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $3,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Zero baht tourists are perhaps the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese are not visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here. 

 

I was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartiercomplex. It was Bella Rocca Restaurant. I asked about a 2011 Chianti they had on the list. I was told they were out of stock. I asked about a Barbaresco, at 2,600 baht. Again, out of stock. How about this Nebbiolo? Do you have the 2010, as stated on the list? No, we only have the 2015. OK, what is that wine like? Is it drinking well now? I do not know. Is there anyone here that is familiar with this wine list? No. Sorry sir. Wait a minute. You have 100 bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out. We realized the restaurant was a pretender. And more than likely the food was marginal at best. It was all dressed up to look like a very nice Italian restaurant. But, it appeared to be only window dressing. High end tourists have little patience for that lack of quality and lack of service. 

 

But again, the lack of vision, combined with a naive, surly, silly, churlish, and ignorant sense of nationalism, bites the country in the butt. And again, who is the loser? The Thai people. The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. For a hundred valid reasons. The real solution is about encouraging tourists, and ex-pats, from countries that spend real money, to come here and visit. That message seems to have gotten lost, in the fervor to court the Chinese tourists, many of whom do not spend much money at all here. So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $3,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused.

It's very easy to visit Thailand as a tourist, 30 days waiver on entry.

The people being discouraged are foreigners trying to live here.

Once you're here for more than 30 days in a year, you aren't a tourist.

Their country, up to them.

 

You want to drink wine, I would suggest France or Spain (maybe Portugal).

Edited December 14, 2018 by BritManToo

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartiercomplex. It was Bella Rocca Restaurant. I asked about a 2011 Chianti they had on the list. I was told they were out of stock. I asked about a Barbaresco, at 2,600 baht. Again, out of stock. How about this Nebbiolo? Do you have the 2010, as stated on the list? No, we only have the 2015. OK, what is that wine like? Is it drinking well now? I do not know. Is there anyone here that is familiar with this wine list? No. Sorry sir. Wait a minute. You have 100 bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out. We realized the restaurant was a pretender. And more than likely the food was marginal at best. It was all dressed up to look like a very nice Italian restaurant. But, it appeared to be only window dressing. High end tourists have little patience for that lack of quality and lack of service. 

If I was a Wine Poseur (which, thankfully I am not nor ever was) Thailand wouldn't be my choice of destinations.

 

How would they pronounce  Chateau Lafitte? KahTooh Raphih? You asked for a Nebo-roh? Did he understand you? Oh my god, I wanted the 2010, how dare you offer me a 2009!

 

Sorry mate, I don't know the difference between a Morgan Davis 2016 and a Barbarella 2012. I thought that a Nebbiola was the Italian translation of the Yiddish word Nebbish. The only wines around me are what I read on this Forum.

 

So please excuse me if I dont sympathise or find your post anywhere compelling. Its like raising my glass, swirling some murky grape juice, taking a guzzle, spitting it back in the glass, missing and splattering the Sommelurp,  and saying "Hmmmm, I say old boy, its presumptuous with just a hit of arrogance and condescension, wot wot"

[roo860]

If I was a Wine Poseur (which, thankfully I am not nor ever was) Thailand wouldn't be my choice of destinations.
 
How would they pronounce  Chateau Lafitte? KahTooh Raphih? You asked for a Nebo-roh? Did he understand you? Oh my god, I wanted the 2010, how dare you offer me a 2009!
 
Sorry mate, I don't know the difference between a Morgan Davis 2016 and a Barbarella 2012. I thought that a Nebbiola was the Italian translation of the Yiddish word Nebbish. The only wines around me are what I read on this Forum.
 
So please excuse me if I dont sympathise or find your post anywhere compelling. Its like raising my glass, swirling some murky grape juice, taking a guzzle, spitting it back in the glass, missing and splattering the Sommelurp,  and saying "Hmmmm, I say old boy, its presumptuous with just a hit of arrogance and condescension, wot wot"

[emoji23] [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[fruitman]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartiercomplex

Stop here please, i've read that story at least 3 times last months....????

 

Except the Philipino's working in EM-quartier there's no staff who can speak english...

 

Also they even can't serve a dinner for 2 in a steakhouse at the same time, i finished my steaks already and my wife still had to get hers.

 

Yes i know, shouldn't complain too much here cause the countryboys can't stand it.

Edited December 14, 2018 by fruitman

[kwilco]

lets face it, who wants to employ a bigoted misogynist, anyway?

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

 Its like raising my glass, swirling some murky grape juice, taking a guzzle, spitting it back in the glass, missing and splattering the Sommelurp,  and saying "Hmmmm, I say old boy, its presumptuous with just a hit of arrogance and condescension, wot wot"

I do the same with laukhao. The subtle hints of field rat crap in the NongKhai 2011 batch are excellent.

[DrTuner]

25 minutes ago, kwilco said:

lets face it, who wants to employ a bigoted misogynist, anyway?

Give me all of them. Tend to be the hardest working ones.

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

I do the same with laukhao. The subtle hints of field rat crap in the NongKhai 2011 batch are excellent.

Thanks, I just spewed Sai Grok on my screen.

 

Post of the Year

Edited December 14, 2018 by Nyezhov

[talahtnut]

I say you chaps, I must be so posh, I dont look at the price list,

in the Dogs Bo^^ocks Bar, I just order the most expensive Leo

the establishment has to offer, insisting only the 2018, from

the south side, not shaken,

On polishing the lot off, I slam the mug down on table exclaiming

'Churn Jai, ahhhh',  as pompously as possible, wot wot eh.

Then orf to the Point to Point in Soi Buakouw.

[spidermike007]

5 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

If I was a Wine Poseur (which, thankfully I am not nor ever was) Thailand wouldn't be my choice of destinations.

 

How would they pronounce  Chateau Lafitte? KahTooh Raphih? You asked for a Nebo-roh? Did he understand you? Oh my god, I wanted the 2010, how dare you offer me a 2009!

 

Sorry mate, I don't know the difference between a Morgan Davis 2016 and a Barbarella 2012. I thought that a Nebbiola was the Italian translation of the Yiddish word Nebbish. The only wines around me are what I read on this Forum.

 

So please excuse me if I dont sympathise or find your post anywhere compelling. Its like raising my glass, swirling some murky grape juice, taking a guzzle, spitting it back in the glass, missing and splattering the Sommelurp,  and saying "Hmmmm, I say old boy, its presumptuous with just a hit of arrogance and condescension, wot wot"

 

Sorry your lack of sophistication in the area of wine prevents you from enjoying one of life's great pleasures. No need to knock another man for his passions. Just fess up. You don't get it. It is all grape juice for you. That is ok. No issues with that. Zero arrogance and condescension here. Just passion and joy that a great bottle of wine brings those that have the ability and taste to appreciate it.

 

Really no need to use terms like poseur. You are making a rather huge, callous and uneducated assumption, without being armed with any facts. 

 

The dictionary defines poser as: a person who pretends to be what he or she is not. An affected or insincere person.  

 

No need to be intimidated by someone who knows his wine. I have been enjoying, collecting and studying wine for 35 years. Hardly makes me someone pretending to know good wine. I know alot less than most on many topics. I deal with it, rather than insulting a man who knows more than I do.  

Edited December 14, 2018 by spidermike007

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, fruitman said:

Stop here please, i've read that story at least 3 times last months....????

 

Except the Philipino's working in EM-quartier there's no staff who can speak english...

 

Also they even can't serve a dinner for 2 in a steakhouse at the same time, i finished my steaks already and my wife still had to get hers.

 

Yes i know, shouldn't complain too much here cause the countryboys can't stand it.

 

Seems like half the time I complain here, someone who has not bothered to take three minutes to process some thought, and articulate a reply, says something inane like "if you don't like it here, why don't you go back to your own country?" What can one even say? How do you respond to such vapidity?

[rott]

On 12/13/2018 at 1:58 AM, Benroon said:

To make it relevant ? You're new to forums right ?

Obviously not seeing that I am referring to at least ten years ago.

[rott]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

I say you chaps, I must be so posh, I dont look at the price list,

in the Dogs Bo^^ocks Bar, I just order the most expensive Leo

the establishment has to offer, insisting only the 2018, from

the south side, not shaken,

On polishing the lot off, I slam the mug down on table exclaiming

'Churn Jai, ahhhh',  as pompously as possible, wot wot eh.

Then orf to the Point to Point in Soi Buakouw.

You sound like the sort of git who has never had a drink in the Dog's.

[Nyezhov]

50 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Sorry your lack of sophistication in the area of wine prevents you from enjoying one of life's great pleasures. No need to knock another man for his passions. Just fess up. You don't get it. It is all grape juice for you. That is ok. No issues with that. Zero arrogance and condescension here. Just passion and joy that a great bottle of wine brings those that have the ability and taste to appreciate it.

 

Really no need to use terms like poseur. You are making a rather huge, callous and uneducated assumption, without being armed with any facts. 

 

The dictionary defines poser as: a person who pretends to be what he or she is not. An affected or insincere person.  

 

No need to be intimidated by someone who knows his wine. I have been enjoying, collecting and studying wine for 35 years. Hardly makes me someone pretending to know good wine. I know alot less than most on many topics. I deal with it, rather than insulting a man who knows more than I do.  

Lighten up Francis and reread my post. I used the word poseur in reference to me. Feeling a bit defensive about your hobby?

 

And yep it's all grape juice to my unsophisticated, uneducated, and lumpenproletariat palate and sour to boot...except Chateau D'yquem of course but I refuse to drink something for $100 that I'll piss out 10 minutes later.

 

My point is if you are going to be a pinky pointer, why do it in a country where the norm is toilet paper for napkins? They can't even pronounce what you drink.

 

Now excuse me I'm going to be a poseur at Levels or Insanity. I'll have my Leo shaken not stirred.

[melvinmelvin]

54 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Sorry your lack of sophistication in the area of wine prevents you from enjoying one of life's great pleasures. No need to knock another man for his passions. Just fess up. You don't get it. It is all grape juice for you. That is ok. No issues with that. Zero arrogance and condescension here. Just passion and joy that a great bottle of wine brings those that have the ability and taste to appreciate it.

 

Really no need to use terms like poseur. You are making a rather huge, callous and uneducated assumption, without being armed with any facts. 

 

The dictionary defines poser as: a person who pretends to be what he or she is not. An affected or insincere person.  

 

No need to be intimidated by someone who knows his wine. I have been enjoying, collecting and studying wine for 35 years. Hardly makes me someone pretending to know good wine. I know alot less than most on many topics. I deal with it, rather than insulting a man who knows more than I do.  

I guess it's not about to what extent N enjoys wine but more about your big mouth and how you choose to go about enjoying wine in LoS

no reason to intimidate restaurant staff because they know zilch about wine

 

there is plenty of very good wine for sale in LoS

 

you choose to go to a canteen eatery in a shopping centre, what the f do you expect?

 

if your preference is not to choose proper restaurants that is fine,

since you and your friends seemingly are what you call quality tourists,

you probably have ample amounts of satang

just buy 10-15-20 bottles of very good wine in a shop

 

bring some bottles with you to the shopping centre eatery of your choice - pay the cork fee - enjoy

 

 

 

 

[swissie]

I too come here for the wine and the temples only.

Back on topic:
As long as I can remember, Thailand was never famous for offering young Farangs viable career opportunities (unless working for an international company.) Young Farang English teachers will soon find out that their salary will not go far when it comes to "Wine, Women and Song".

I have always associated Thailand with "retirement paradise". But as the Visa-situation, increasingly unfavourable exchange-rates and other factors make it increasingly hard for long-term residents here, no wonder that some are starting to look for alternative "retirement-paradises".

Chances are that neighboring countries will also thighten Visa-requirements. (See thread "Thinking about leaving Thailand for the Philippines" in the Pub sub-forum). = The new Philippine Immigration-Rules must take this country off the list of possible alternative retirement-heavens. Under these new Immi-Rules, anyone still considering the Philippines must be mad.

A harbinger of things to come in S/E Asia? I am afraid so.

Finally: If unlimited funds are available, one can retire EVERYWHERE. It's for folks living on a limited retirement budget that may soon find themselves in a "difficult" situation.
"Acts of God" = overnight Governement Regulations having screwed-up their retirement plans (for the most part).

[HalfLight]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Sorry your lack of sophistication in the area of wine prevents you from enjoying one of life's great pleasures. No need to knock another man for his passions. Just fess up. You don't get it. It is all grape juice for you. That is ok. No issues with that. Zero arrogance and condescension here. Just passion and joy that a great bottle of wine brings those that have the ability and taste to appreciate it.

 

Really no need to use terms like poseur. You are making a rather huge, callous and uneducated assumption, without being armed with any facts. 

 

The dictionary defines poser as: a person who pretends to be what he or she is not. An affected or insincere person.  

 

No need to be intimidated by someone who knows his wine. I have been enjoying, collecting and studying wine for 35 years. Hardly makes me someone pretending to know good wine. I know alot less than most on many topics. I deal with it, rather than insulting a man who knows more than I do.  

 

'Really no need to use terms like poseur. You are making a rather huge, callous and uneducated assumption, without being armed with any facts.'

 

Ah yes.

[kwilco]

21 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

So many recent posts are so sad, but typical.

Too many with WWWM syndrome.

Weak

White

Western

Male

Syndrome

 

You can hear and see it in their posts. 

Yes, most of these situations are a you problem.

Blah blah..women control me, Thailand and the world!!  A bunch of scared weak babies.

Wake up males ( you mostly are not men) and try growing a pair!!

 

V my post.... QED

 

I think a large number of posts show why many people would be totally put off if offered a job in Thailand........

 

Why would any qualified professional with family want to work in a place that is populated by rejects from  19th century Dodge City?

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

I too come here for the wine and the temples only.

Back on topic:
As long as I can remember, Thailand was never famous for offering young Farangs viable career opportunities (unless working for an international company.) Young Farang English teachers will soon find out that their salary will not go far when it comes to "Wine, Women and Song".

I have always associated Thailand with "retirement paradise". But as the Visa-situation, increasingly unfavourable exchange-rates and other factors make it increasingly hard for long-term residents here, no wonder that some are starting to look for alternative "retirement-paradises".

Chances are that neighboring countries will also thighten Visa-requirements. (See thread "Thinking about leaving Thailand for the Philippines" in the Pub sub-forum). = The new Philippine Immigration-Rules must take this country off the list of possible alternative retirement-heavens. Under these new Immi-Rules, anyone still considering the Philippines must be mad.

A harbinger of things to come in S/E Asia? I am afraid so.

Finally: If unlimited funds are available, one can retire EVERYWHERE. It's for folks living on a limited retirement budget that may soon find themselves in a "difficult" situation.
"Acts of God" = overnight Governement Regulations having screwed-up their retirement plans (for the most part).

So why do none retire to Thailand?

[Odysseus123]

4 hours ago, swissie said:

I too come here for the wine and the temples only.

Back on topic:
As long as I can remember, Thailand was never famous for offering young Farangs viable career opportunities (unless working for an international company.) Young Farang English teachers will soon find out that their salary will not go far when it comes to "Wine, Women and Song".

I have always associated Thailand with "retirement paradise". But as the Visa-situation, increasingly unfavourable exchange-rates and other factors make it increasingly hard for long-term residents here, no wonder that some are starting to look for alternative "retirement-paradises".

Chances are that neighboring countries will also thighten Visa-requirements. (See thread "Thinking about leaving Thailand for the Philippines" in the Pub sub-forum). = The new Philippine Immigration-Rules must take this country off the list of possible alternative retirement-heavens. Under these new Immi-Rules, anyone still considering the Philippines must be mad.

A harbinger of things to come in S/E Asia? I am afraid so.

Finally: If unlimited funds are available, one can retire EVERYWHERE. It's for folks living on a limited retirement budget that may soon find themselves in a "difficult" situation.
"Acts of God" = overnight Governement Regulations having screwed-up their retirement plans (for the most part).

Very good post.

 

I only disagree with one point-wealth merely grants you the opportunity to get out in a safe and timely manner.

 

Should be read with close attention by those who may think that a sideways shuffle (Myanmar,Laos,Cambodia,Malaysia,Philippines etc) will lengthen the odds.

[BurgerGung]

Well, my last 2 VISA runs were unsuccessful. Stuff to do with the criminal background checks in both, Thailand and my home country. The latter one was  o r i g i n a l, but they wanted it apostilled and translated?!

 

Enough is enough.

 

You see, the consulate collected 300 MYR and then decided not to grant the VISA. None of my colleagues has such a home country clearance.

 

Am warning against working in Thailand. Seems some officials enjoy showing farangs their limits, making them fight windmills.

[fruitman]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Seems like half the time I complain here, someone who has not bothered to take three minutes to process some thought, and articulate a reply, says something inane like "if you don't like it here, why don't you go back to your own country?" What can one even say? How do you respond to such vapidity?

We are not allowed to complain about stupid personell....they come from the countryside where many farang live as well....So that stupid staff belongs to Thailand and won't leave, never ever...even frying an egg or pumping a tyre is too hard for them....be proud with that Thailand!

[kelboy]

Just went too chang mai and there was not to many white tourist but a lot of Chinese and thais but that was do to the long weekend I think.still can't drink in the afternoon and couldn't even get beer in my favourite mums and pop's store. Then we flew down to krabi which was the firsttime in 18 years that I've been here. A few more tourist but more Chinese and yes a lot of Indians and Malaysia people. You could drink all day but not buy in 7 11 as I found out at 0900 before I went on a boat trip. So you save up your life time holiday money come to thailand and can't get a beer when you want, no wonder they are not coming. All the girls were complaining to me that business was bad,I told them that they are charging too much for everything. 

[MyTHaiMyKe]

Rising COSTS of living in Thailand to the influx of Chinese and Indian tourists changing the dynamics.

Says it all!

[bkk6060]

14 minutes ago, MyTHaiMyKe said:

Rising COSTS of living in Thailand to the influx of Chinese and Indian tourists changing the dynamics.

Says it all!

Compared to what? Haiti?

So, a bowl of soup went up from 35 to 40 b?

It is still in the top 10 in most publications as one of the least expensive places to live or retire.

And housing is still inexpensive here compared worldwide.

It means nothing really.  Costs are rising everywhere it is called a fact of life....

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by bkk6060