Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[grifbel]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

I've known 3 go this year and another 1 getting ready to go

Such drama!  Does he need help packing?

[brokenbone]

2 minutes ago, grifbel said:

Agree with the other guy, not you.  Lots of foreign economic free riders in Thailand.  They use all the infrastructure but contribute nothing economically nor pay taxes.  Drinking happy hour beer everyday at beer bars does not contribute anything to society other than bread crumbs, so it will be better once these free-rider types are gone.

you do not know what a free-rider is then,

a free-rider is someone who doesnt pay for himself

[grifbel]

38 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

you do not know what a free-rider is then,

a free-rider is someone who doesnt pay for himself

Time for a teaching moment....it has nothing to do with paying for yourself, more to do with taking out more than you are putting in.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/free_rider_problem.asp

What is the Free Rider Problem

The free rider problem is a situation where some individuals consume more than their fair share or pay less than their fair share of the cost of a shared resource. It is a market failure that occurs when people take advantage of being able to use a common resource, or collective good, without paying for it, as is the case when citizens of a country utilize public goods without paying their fair share in taxes.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

In the social sciences, the free-rider problem occurs when those who benefit from resources, public goods, or services do not pay for them, which results in an underprovision of those goods or services.

 

Next......

[brokenbone]

27 minutes ago, grifbel said:

the free-rider problem occurs when those who benefit from resources, public goods, or services do not pay for them

as i said, a freeloader is someone who doesnt feed himself,

like a backpacker that decides to fund his trip

through begging, or your typical thai that hands over his

bill to the foreigner next chair in a gesture of friendship & thai culture.

jai dee, sabai sabai etc etc

Edited March 31, 2019 by brokenbone

[grifbel]

2 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

as i said, a freeloader is someone who doesnt feed himself,

No you didn't, you used the term free-rider.  Nice try!  Go re-read it yourself.  Freeloader is not the same as free-rider.  I provided some homework links so you could educate yourself and impress your friends. 

 

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, grifbel said:

Agree with the other guy, not you.  Lots of foreign economic free riders in Thailand.  They use all the infrastructure but contribute nothing economically nor pay taxes.  Drinking happy hour beer everyday at beer bars does not contribute anything to society other than bread crumbs, so it will be better once these free-rider types are gone.

So when are you leaving?

[bkk6060]

The "visual" impression of Falang is negative I think.

Walk in any of the major tourist areas and it is 1000's of them fat, in tank tops gassing up at the bar.

In Pattaya walk past Beach road, Soi 7 and 8 or any bars around there drinking Falang.

Really, all the way up to third road.

The "visual impression" is they are a bunch of lazy alcoholics.

Yes, I think this place is sick and tired of what they think are problematic Falang.

They are much happier seeing buses full of tourists, then you...

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by bkk6060

[fforest1]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

The "visual" impression of Falang is negative I think.

Walk in any of the major tourist areas and it is 1000's of them fat, in tank tops gassing up at the bar.

On Pattaya walk past Beach road, Soi 7 and 8 or any bars around there drinking Falang.

Really, all the way up to third road.

The "visual impression" is they are a bunch of lazy alcoholics.

Yes, I think this place is sick and tired of what they think are problem atic Falang.

They are much happier seeing buses full of tourists, then you...

 

Farangs are not a problem at all....99% of Thailand hardly has any farangs.....So there are some alcoholics in a area with a lot of bars....Show me one place in the world that thats not true....Try getting off your bar stool and traveling around Thailand...You will not see many farangs... 

[brokenbone]

17 minutes ago, grifbel said:

No you didn't, you used the term free-rider.  Nice try!  Go re-read it yourself.  Freeloader is not the same as free-rider.  I provided some homework links so you could educate yourself and impress your friends. 

 

your own link confirm its the same cesspool,

trash wanting someone else to pay their bill,

almost exclusively woman & thais,

and on very rare occasions, millenials

wanting to assimilate in the culture

[grifbel]

6 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Show me one place in the world that thats not true....

How about Saudi Arabia......

Next...

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Farangs are not a problem at all....99% of Thailand hardly has any farangs.....So there are some alcoholics in a area with a lot of bars....Show me one place in the world that thats not true....Try getting off your bar stool and traveling around Thailand...You will not see many farangs... 

Seems you took it personally and you did not comprehend my post.

The "visual impression" in the major tourist areas is that of drinking Falang. I am not talking about some sub section in Khon Kean.

By the way, I do not go to bars, but I certainly recommend you take your own advise.

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Seems you took it personally and you did not comprehend my post.

The "visual impression" in the major tourist areas is that of drinking Falang. I am not talking about some sub section in Khon Kean.

By the way, I do not go to bars, but I certainly recommend you take your own advise.

I agree with you about the "visual impression" part and-given the fact that we look very different anyway-such an impression could be easily locked into the Thai psyche to emerge as anger or contempt.

[Kasane]

I don't think any country want washed up foreigners on their shores. Especially of the drunk, sexpats variety who then give a bad rap to the more genuine, respectful, adventurous foreign travelers/visitors/retirees.

[tlandtday]

22 hours ago, moontang said:

it would be a good candidate for riverboat gambling...

What most people don't realize is they think the Chinese are all hooked on gambling and don't understand how Casinos are used for money laundering.

[fforest1]

39 minutes ago, Kasane said:

I don't think any country want washed up foreigners on their shores. Especially of the drunk, sexpats variety who then give a bad rap to the more genuine, respectful, adventurous foreign travelers/visitors/retirees.

But if you have 800k in the bank then washed up over weight  Singha vest wearing balloon chasing drunk alcoholic bar fly  sexpats are more than welcome here..... 

[stanleycoin]

13 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

But if you have 800k in the bank then washed up over weight  Singha vest wearing balloon chasing drunk alcoholic bar fly  sexpats are more than welcome here..... 

I resemble that remark.

And i also  have a bald head. 

[bkk6060]

7 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

I resemble that remark.

And i also  have a bald head. 

If your Sing vest is yellow or orange then you are in! ????

[grifbel]

7 hours ago, brokenbone said:

your own link confirm its the same cesspool,

trash wanting someone else to pay their bill,

almost exclusively woman & thais,

and on very rare occasions, millenials

wanting to assimilate in the culture

Talk about a strawman argument.  YOU are the one who conflated the terms free-rider and free-loader, even though they are completely different.  Read the links I provided for you to educate yourself.  If you need me to simplify the explanation further, I am willing to spend about another minute on this.

[Kasane]

6 hours ago, fforest1 said:

But if you have 800k in the bank then washed up over weight  Singha vest wearing balloon chasing drunk alcoholic bar fly  sexpats are more than welcome here..... 

That's the occupational hazard of a relatively poor but generous country.  

[Sonhia]

No surprise at all!

 

Are Westerners finally starting to open their eyes to the greed, racism, ineqallity, immigration laws, lawlessness, double standard pricing and so on...

 

In my opinion a foreigner is viewed by a majority of Thai people as simply a walking ATM, to be extorted. My presence is tolerated but not wanted.

 

Land of smiles as long as money is present, otherwise, 'Cheap Charlie' get out!

[Duck J Butters]

On 8/2/2018 at 4:15 PM, impulse said:

As globalization hits, the differential between the cost of living in LOS and back home continues to shrink.  Thai goods that used to be consumed only in Thailand are getting more expensive as China, et. al. are bidding up the prices. 

 

Couple that with the stagnant wages for many foreigners who work for peanuts just to live in LOS, and I can see where lots of them are either going back home, or to countries with friendlier policies toward expats and their spending money. 

 

And for a lot of long stay retired guys, they didn't expect (and plan for) the cost of living well (above a subsistence level) to rise as quickly as it has, and now they need to locate somewhere they can supplement their pensions without risking a one-way ticket out of the country for working illegally- even if it's just trading in Beanie Babies on EBay.

 

Thailand is still a bargain, but not the bargain it used to be.  And the trade-offs are eroding by the year.

 

My heart goes out to the Thai folks who can't pull up stakes and move "back home".  They're seeing many of the same inflationary pressures, with no Plan B.

 

 

This article does not account for the new breed that is flocking to Thailand in droves. We are called digital nomads and earn mid six-figures USD ($280k to $500k avg ) and can live anywhere in the world. I am age 33 myself. Thailand is attractive for the obvious reasons but also because it’s lenient on tax laws. If you live in Thailand but work for companies outside of Thailand, you do not have to pay Thai taxes. And, if you’re an American, you do not have to pay federal taxes on your first $105k and if you establish a company in Singapore you can “legally” avoid US taxes all together.

 

This new breed of digital nomads are not only salary-rich but equity rich as well. I myself have earned equity / stock at Google, Facebook and Netflix before relocating to Phuket. I currently work for Netflix in Silicon Valley and they are completely fine with me working remotely from Thailand. My salary is identical to what is was when I lived in San Francisco, California where a dumpy 1 bedroom apartment will cost you $5000 usd/ month. I can rent a giant palace in Phuket for that rate.

 

So you can see the obvious attraction. The digital nomad crew is expanding rapidly in Thailand and it is expected that by 2030, 75% of all American jobs will be remote / freelance ( meaning Americans can live wherever they want in the world ). It has been factually proven that you get more out of your workers when you allow them to work from home and on their own hours. Their productivity actually increases. So anyways, this is the way things are going. Expect more and more digital nomads to Thailand.

 

Thailand may be losing some epxats but it’s gaining an entirely new type of expat that is wielding lots of cash. These expats are big spenders, naturally they will drive the cost of goods up in Thailand further. But they are also bringing loads of jobs and technical infrastructure to Thailand. I myself employ over 100 Thai software engineers and I pay them 100,000 baht / month, well over the 20,000 baht that Thai companies pay. So you can see there is a huge advantage to the Thai economy to keep the digital nomad crew happy. 

 

As more and more Americans relocate to Thailand on US salary, I imagine Thailand will become even more expensive. But it will still be far cheaper than the US, hence why people will continue to flock here. I’ve lived in Thailand for 4 years now and have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars due to no taxes and a much cheaper cost of living. Why on Earth would I leave this place that is basically paradise?

[dcnx]

7 hours ago, Kasane said:

I don't think any country want washed up foreigners on their shores. Especially of the drunk, sexpats variety who then give a bad rap to the more genuine, respectful, adventurous foreign travelers/visitors/retirees.

You fail to understand the meaning of xenophobia. We’re all the same to those are xenophobic. There isn’t good and bad, only foreigners who are untrustworthy and potentially damaging their culture.

 

I wish this were not the case, but that’s how it is.

[dcnx]

4 minutes ago, Duck J Butters said:

This article does not account for the new breed that is flocking to Thailand in droves. We are called digital nomads and earn mid six-figures USD ($280k to $500k avg ) and can live anywhere in the world. I am age 33 myself. Thailand is attractive for the obvious reasons but also because it’s lenient on tax laws. If you live in Thailand but work for companies outside of Thailand, you do not have to pay Thai taxes. And, if you’re an American, you do not have to pay federal taxes on your first $105k and if you establish a company in Singapore you can “legally” avoid US taxes all together.

 

This new breed of digital nomads are not only salary-rich but equity rich as well. I myself have earned equity / stock at Google, Facebook and Netflix before relocating to Phuket. I currently work for Netflix in Silicon Valley and they are completely fine with me working remotely from Thailand. My salary is identical to what is was when I lived in San Francisco, California where a dumpy 1 bedroom apartment will cost you $5000 usd/ month. I can rent a giant palace in Phuket for that rate.

 

So you can see the obvious attraction. The digital nomad crew is expanding rapidly in Thailand and it is expected that by 2030, 75% of all American jobs will be remote / freelance ( meaning Americans can live wherever they want in the world ). It has been factually proven that you get more out of your workers when you allow them to work from home and on their own hours. Their productivity actually increases. So anyways, this is the way things are going. Expect more and more digital nomads to Thailand.

 

Thailand may be losing some epxats but it’s gaining an entirely new type of expat that is wielding lots of cash. These expats are big spenders, naturally they will drive the cost of goods up in Thailand further. But they are also bringing loads of jobs and technical infrastructure to Thailand. I myself employ over 100 Thai software engineers and I pay them 100,000 baht / month, well over the 20,000 baht that Thai companies pay. So you can see there is a huge advantage to the Thai economy to keep the digital nomad crew happy. 

 

As more and more Americans relocate to Thailand on US salary, I imagine Thailand will become even more expensive. But it will still be far cheaper than the US, hence why people will continue to flock here. I’ve lived in Thailand for 4 years now and have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars due to no taxes and a much cheaper cost of living. Why on Earth would I leave this place that is basically paradise?

We have a lot of rental properties here and usually rent to digital nomads. We welcome them. Excellent tenants. However, most of them have left, relocated to other countries. More are leaving than coming. Now, most of our units are rented to Chinese female students (won’t rent to Chinese males) and short term stays by tourists passing through.

 

There are still plenty here but more and more are leaving as visa restrictions tighten and some get turned away with the METV visa so many are on. 

 

One good visa solution for people like you (not the Elite visa) would turn that all around. People want to stay here and work here but they are being forced out.

 

Thailand could be a thriving digital hub where new companies emerge and others train the locals in an attempt to bring Thailand up to speed. But that’s not where the elite want them to be. Keep them stupid and uneducated and they will kowtow and prostrate themselves for generations to come. It’s unfortunate.

 

Thailand hasn’t changed much in the 15 or so years I’ve been here. Better malls and cafes, the net is faster, but that’s about it. It’s still third world at heart and will be for many, many generations to come. One look at their road casualties and pollution problems and it’s easy to see where they stand. Moving backwards if anything.

 

 

[impulse]

40 minutes ago, dcnx said:

There are still plenty here but more and more are leaving as visa restrictions tighten and some get turned away with the METV visa so many are on. 

 

Or because their blog is being de-funded by YouTube.  For every digital nomad making the dosh that Dick Butters mentions ($280K-$500K), there's a dozen barely scraping by. 

 

Mr Butters also mentions living here for 4 years and saving hundreds of thousands of USD by paying no taxes.  Assuming he's American (as he keeps alluding to USD, American salaries, etc) that means he's violating tax laws on both sides of the Pond.

 

And lastly, any expat who's living in Thailand and making that kind of money, who cannot find a visa solution, should be pretty embarrassed.  Or, just admit that they want to game the tax and visa system to contribute as little as they possibly can.  

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by impulse

[lamyai3]

10 hours ago, grifbel said:

Freeloader is not the same as free-rider.

I'll settle for freewheeler. 

[fforest1]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Or because their blog is being de-funded by YouTube.  For every digital nomad making the dosh that Dick Butters mentions ($280K-$500K), there's a dozen barely scraping by. 

 

Mr Butters also mentions living here for 4 years and saving hundreds of thousands of USD by paying no taxes.  Assuming he's American (as he keeps alluding to USD, American salaries, etc) that means he's violating tax laws on both sides of the Pond.

 

And lastly, any expat who's living in Thailand and making that kind of money, who cannot find a visa solution, should be pretty embarrassed.  Or, just admit that they want to game the tax and visa system to contribute as little as they possibly can.  

 

Most big companies dont let their workers work remotely even though they could....Digital nomads are like any other business a few do very well most just get by......

The number of digital nomads in Thailand should continue shrinking every year for the foreseeable future as long as they continue to make staying here long term damm near impossible for any one under 50..... 

[impulse]

48 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Most big companies dont let their workers work remotely even though they could....Digital nomads are like any other business a few do very well most just get by......

The number of digital nomads in Thailand should continue shrinking every year for the foreseeable future as long as they continue to make staying here long term damm near impossible for any one under 50..... 

 

I was probably harsher than I should have been.  My point was that digital nomadism doesn't suspend the rules of creating and operating businesses around the world.  There are still taxes to be paid, protections required for stakeholders like investors, suppliers, employees and customers, and other rules to be followed. 

 

Lots of expats have come in, created a huge mess for their stakeholders, and then simply disappeared when things went tits up- leaving bills unpaid, employees with no severance or other social benefits benefits that they've earned, and investors wondering where their money went. 

 

There's a reason Thailand would prefer that people doing business in country register their businesses and meet certain requirements that digital nomads see as quaint throwbacks to the age of dinosaurs.  That is, until they're the one being shafted when a fly-by-night leaves them in the lurch and runs for the border.

 

[spidermike007]

19 hours ago, Bournville said:

No true. Albeit it's very easy.. Income requirement... Stay 4 years as a residente temporal... Then automatically get residente permanente... They even let me go through the passport lines for Mexicans!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

I was not referring to the legality of one's state, as much as the open minded nature of the locals. If you live there long enough, and speak the language well, which is infinitely easier to learn than Thai, they embrace you. Not so here.

[LomSak27]

9 hours ago, Duck J Butters said:

This new breed of digital nomads are not only salary-rich but equity rich as well

For every one who is making money there are 8 who are not and gone in 3 months. It's sad really. 

[JimmyJ]

11 hours ago, Duck J Butters said:

This article does not account for the new breed that is flocking to Thailand in droves. We are called digital nomads and earn mid six-figures USD ($280k to $500k avg ) and can live anywhere in the world. I am age 33 myself. Thailand is attractive for the obvious reasons but also because it’s lenient on tax laws. If you live in Thailand but work for companies outside of Thailand, you do not have to pay Thai taxes. And, if you’re an American, you do not have to pay federal taxes on your first $105k and if you establish a company in Singapore you can “legally” avoid US taxes all together.

 

This new breed of digital nomads are not only salary-rich but equity rich as well. I myself have earned equity / stock at Google, Facebook and Netflix before relocating to Phuket. I currently work for Netflix in Silicon Valley and they are completely fine with me working remotely from Thailand. My salary is identical to what is was when I lived in San Francisco, California where a dumpy 1 bedroom apartment will cost you $5000 usd/ month. I can rent a giant palace in Phuket for that rate.

 

So you can see the obvious attraction. The digital nomad crew is expanding rapidly in Thailand and it is expected that by 2030, 75% of all American jobs will be remote / freelance ( meaning Americans can live wherever they want in the world ). It has been factually proven that you get more out of your workers when you allow them to work from home and on their own hours. Their productivity actually increases. So anyways, this is the way things are going. Expect more and more digital nomads to Thailand.

 

Thailand may be losing some epxats but it’s gaining an entirely new type of expat that is wielding lots of cash. These expats are big spenders, naturally they will drive the cost of goods up in Thailand further. But they are also bringing loads of jobs and technical infrastructure to Thailand. I myself employ over 100 Thai software engineers and I pay them 100,000 baht / month, well over the 20,000 baht that Thai companies pay. So you can see there is a huge advantage to the Thai economy to keep the digital nomad crew happy. 

 

As more and more Americans relocate to Thailand on US salary, I imagine Thailand will become even more expensive. But it will still be far cheaper than the US, hence why people will continue to flock here. I’ve lived in Thailand for 4 years now and have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars due to no taxes and a much cheaper cost of living. Why on Earth would I leave this place that is basically paradise?

"We are called digital nomads...

 

I currently work for Netflix in Silicon Valley and they are completely fine with me working remotely from Thailand"

 

Previously I've only seen "digital nomads" applied to people who are self employed and usually involved in finding a commodity for which there is or they create a demand, and then list on Amazon/Ebay etc., or, Youtubers/bloggers/vloggers, etc.

 

I.e., self employed people who travel and are able to earn income thru using their computer/telecommunications.

 

I've never before seen it applied to someone employed by a major corporation who has over 100 people working for him and who is allowed to work from whereever.

I see that Wiki calls what you are doing "telework" and perhaps they are considering it a branch of digital nomadism - hard for me to interpret their article.

 

 

"We are called digital nomads and earn mid six-figures USD ($280k to $500k avg )...".

This is total bullsh*t.

Are you listing a cumulative 10 year income?

Even then that has to be way above a 10 year cumulative average for all who consider themselves "digital nomads" and fit the description I gave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by JimmyJ