Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[Stargeezr]

I have 3 friends that live in Thailand for 5 to 6 months per year. One owns a house and

wishes he did not, and if his wife leaves him or dies, he will sell and not come back to

Thailand again. One has been to Thailand for many years and rents each year and

is happy with that arrangement. The last one is a relative that hates Canadian Winters

so he is happy to live in Thailand for the weather for 6 months.

I will never buy a place as I feel like my one friend who does not go to Thailand every

Winter and likes the freedom to rent so he has no place to worry about when he

is not in the country.

Geezer

[RT555]

The Government should really bite down on Western tourists... Kick all of them out, Cancel VISAS, raise retirement VISAS, Tax them coming into Los, 

Give them only 15 day Visa Exempts.... That will teach the westerner that THIS IS THAILAND. 

 

And then wonder why and how their economy collapsed. 

Scratching their Bums. 

[stanleycoin]

10 minutes ago, Netease said:

I'm with you two

That's an impressive Spirit house in your garden.

bet your wife like s that, reckon it will cost a bit for the fairy lights. 

[Straight8]

15 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

now,

let us assume that what you say is reasonably in line with reality

then, how come,

so many farangs are still settling here for retirement?

 

the stream of settlers is quite big

The weather and culture of course!!!!!

 

I mean, why else ?????

[moe666]

17 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

The facts you state would be enough to put off most successful people. For example in Europe you can work in any 28 countries so if you like snow to the hot beach it's all there, you can own your own business not have to have strangers having shares, stay forever and even become a citizen no stress of Visa Runs, Applications etc Thailand is 50 years behind and with Asean will eventually have to open up. Yes and then if you say something debatable about a company have the threat of jail under the Computer Crimes Act like Alan at PhuketWan went through. Then you might get wacked if you upset the wrong people...................I am done with Thailand.........

 People with a brain do their research before moving here, they know the rules and what they have to do to live here. Lots of complainers about the rules always after the fact

[kwilco]

At least some of  this reduction must be accounted for by the dramatic shrinkage in the TEFL market largely due to Brexit.

Less customers, shrinking schools, wage stagnation make Thailand a less and less popular destination for language teachers.

 

[dragula]

33 minutes ago, Disco738 said:

Many factors at work here such as the aging dying baby boomers .  Millenials and gen Xers have other places to go.   Cambodia and Viet Nam attracting more visitors.

 

Thailands numbers are up well thanks to the chinese , who by their pack traveling style , often offend westerners not used to them. I lived in Shenzhen and have no issues with any chinese .  Theyre also learning about western habits . 

The answer is no and no. What he did may have been immoral, unethical or reprehensible. Or for all we know it was indeed artistic.  But it was not illegal.

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[twig]

I tried a year on a retirement visa, as an unusually young retiree, and definitely leaving this month.

I'll come back to visit, maybe even marry a Thai, IF I can find a compatible one, but I wouldn't live here for long, NOR would I want to raise my children in this society for sure.

 

Too many reasons, but the main ones include:

• If you're gonna tolerate being treated the way falangs are in Thailand, there are far more cost-effective places than the "Land of Smiles"
• Being routinely overcharged for goods and services, just because falang
• Punctuality? What's that? :)
• "That's how we've always done it."
• Myriad of preposterous laws, some of which are obviously made to disadvantage and fleece falangs
• Being expected to follow the laws and customs applicable only to falangs, but selectively also some customs that should apply only to Thais
• Generally medieval mindset among the population, including the educated elite
  • For example, having to buy your Thai wife from her parents, or at least prove your ability and willingness to become her parents' and extended family's bank account
  • Pathological inability, even among modern young professionals to speak directly in personal or business matters
  • A kind of an unspoken caste system
  • Definitely not a society that places any value on liberty or independent thought (chaos and corruption are not liberty or even anarchy...)
• Prejudice toward falangs, including among the educated elite
  • For example, automatically being assumed to be a sex tourist or international playboy
  • Or worse a pedo, if you're single without a girlfriend
• Being charged kleptocratic, developed-world tax rates, which don't even provide a smooth sidewalk(if any) or working crosswalk signals in major cities
  • So many other examples...
  • Police are basically just another organized crime group, and incompetent one at that...
  • Taxi companies run by mafia, routinely cheating and ripping off falangs, and warring against better services like Grab...
• Did I mention a Myriad of preposterous laws, some of which are specifically made to disadvantage and fleece falangs?
• Very low level of social consciousness among the population, despite the sheeple mentality and all kinds of fake, hypocritical, ritual displays of respect for each other
• After so many decades of falang influx, few are willing to learn any international language well, including English,  especially compared to places like Europe, and other parts of Asia even.
  • That, while naturally expecting aging falangs to invest time in learning Thai, which is more difficult and useless even a few hundred kliks East or West of Bangkok.
  • Even among those who think they speak even English and get plenty of practice with falangs or married to them, I've encountered few percent-wise who are fluent, or even exhibit much desire to be.
• And of course: there is the myriad of preposterous laws and new ones being enacted, some of which are specifically made to disadvantage, inconvenience and fleece falangs?
• My experience is that Thailand continues to be a kind of hermit state, which tolerates falangs only as bags of money.

That's all that comes to mind, right off the top. For sure much of that exists anywhere, and even back on our planets.

Certainly some or much of it some falangs brought upon all of us, but we can't change them or the past...

Conceding that though, no sense in dropping anchor in Thailand then either, especially at current cost of living here.

 

Especially after living in Thailand, I plan to live by the motto "Go where you're treated best!"

Thailand is certainly not that place in my experience.

 

[Netease]

1 hour ago, johnarth said:

NO thank the Turnbull Government for selling and allowing to sell Australia out to the Chinese

Its been happening long before him, I was Liberal member but cancelled it when he got in

[rumak]

5 hours ago, kannot said:

It's harder finding Farang tenants for rental properties now,

10 years ago relatively easy,now its Chinese (only as a last

resort) and Thais (never again),not racist ,just good business

practice.

regards worgeordie

yep,  same thing for me .   not so easy to find a decent renter.   pretty much have to choose between

retired folks ( some ok, some a pain).....and Christian workers (generally pretty good).

Not many younger singles as before, due to immig policies.   I do not rent, rather than go the last resort

route  ?

[HAKAPALITA]

I tried a year on a retirement visa, as an unusually young retiree, and definitely leaving this month.
I'll come back to visit, maybe even marry a Thai, IF I can find a compatible one, but I wouldn't live here for long, NOR would I want to raise my children in this society for sure.
 
Too many reasons, but the main ones include:

• If you're gonna tolerate being treated the way falangs are in Thailand, there are far more cost-effective places than the "Land of Smiles"
• Being routinely overcharged for goods and services, just because falang
• Punctuality? What's that? :)
• "That's how we've always done it."
• Myriad of preposterous laws, some of which are obviously made to disadvantage and fleece falangs
• Being expected to follow the laws and customs applicable only to falangs, but selectively also some customs that should apply only to Thais
• Generally medieval mindset among the population, including the educated elite
  • For example, having to buy your Thai wife from her parents, or at least prove your ability and willingness to become her parents' and extended family's bank account
  • Pathological inability, even among modern young professionals to speak directly in personal or business matters
  • A kind of an unspoken caste system
  • Definitely not a society that places any value on liberty or independent thought (chaos and corruption are not liberty or even anarchy...)
• Prejudice toward falangs, including among the educated elite
  • For example, automatically being assumed to be a sex tourist or international playboy
  • Or worse a pedo, if you're single without a girlfriend
• Being charged kleptocratic, developed-world tax rates, which don't even provide a smooth sidewalk(if any) or working crosswalk signals in major cities
  • So many other examples...
  • Police are basically just another organized crime group, and incompetent one at that...
  • Taxi companies run by mafia, routinely cheating and ripping off falangs, and warring against better services like Grab...
• Did I mention a Myriad of preposterous laws, some of which are specifically made to disadvantage and fleece falangs?
• Very low level of social consciousness among the population, despite the sheeple mentality and all kinds of fake, hypocritical, ritual displays of respect for each other
• After so many decades of falang influx, few are willing to learn any international language well, including English,  especially compared to places like Europe, and other parts of Asia even.
  • That, while naturally expecting aging falangs to invest time in learning Thai, which is more difficult and useless even a few hundred kliks East or West of Bangkok.
  • Even among those who think they speak even English and get plenty of practice with falangs or married to them, I've encountered few percent-wise who are fluent, or even exhibit much desire to be.
• And of course: there is the myriad of preposterous laws and new ones being enacted, some of which are specifically made to disadvantage, inconvenience and fleece falangs?
• My experience is that Thailand continues to be a kind of hermit state, which tolerates falangs only as bags of money.

That's all that comes to mind, right off the top. For sure much of that exists anywhere, and even back on our planets.
Certainly some or much of it some falangs brought upon all of us, but we can't change them or the past...
Conceding that though, no sense in dropping anchor in Thailand then either, especially at current cost of living here.
 
Especially after living in Thailand, I plan to live by the motto "Go where you're treated best!"
Thailand is certainly not that place in my experience.
 

No loss to Thailand, they have enough Mommies Boys without You.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[scottiejohn]

58 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

I've encountered quite a few farangs in Chaing Mai who wear their poverty as a badge of honor.  I don't see why people who brag about living on $500 per month would be reluctant to say so in an survey.

Bar bragging and putting things in writing/doing surveys etc are somewhat different. 

I also suspect that the "I have no money brigade" are not the types who would be contributing/signing up to Forums such as TV.

Another factor is what percentage is the number of respondents to the survey compared to the number of individuals who regularly either sign in or contribute or do both on TV.  i.e.  How representative of the total TV family is the survey?

[KhunFred]

The Thai government has already provided a solution. Once they start requiring expats to wear GPS devices, they can simply expand this to tourists. That should have them lining up at Suvarnaphumi in droves.

[Cranky]

15 hours ago, Lake Palmer said:

interested to know who wrote that article, good stats but difficult to read

Which bit is difficult exactly.  

 

Just remember that it is carried out by TV readers; not serious business expats that thrive in Bangkok and generally don't 'do surveys', whine all the time and spend hours on facebook and other mindless forums so not to be taken too seriously

[natway09]

Surprise, Surprise !!

Could have told them the trend 5 years ago.

Many parts of Thailand will end up like Sanokville (sp) where all the local expat community are desparate

to get out if they haven't already as taken over by Chinese tourists & Chinese developments.

Just not a pleasant place to be anymore

[kjun12]

17 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

The way they treat expats here with the hoop jumping and can't be a citizen or own anything even if have Thai Family is atrocious. Even if the expat wants his own business then they have to have a certain amount of Thai.  90 day reporting and virtually being considered a 3rd rate person here is just how it is. 

You are 100% correct on this.  Could not agree with you more.

17 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Saladin said:

The Thai government has finally done something right. With their unfathomable maze of confusing visa requirements and restrictive work permits they have been working diligently at discouraging foreigners from living here, and it seems that they have been very successful.

 

It seems to me that retirees are a 'Golden Goose' source of foreign currency for Thailand. Every baht of the incoming pensions gets spent in Thailand and the country doesn't even need to lift a finger to get it, unlike from tourism or exports.

 

Logically, the Thai government should scrap the 800,000 baht p.a. requirement for a Retirement Visa and embark on a pro-active campaign to encourage foreigners to retire here, with the conditions that their pensions are paid directly into a Thai bank account by their social security departments, and that they take out mandatory health cover. Thailand could quickly double or triple the expat numbers. This is a win-win proposal with no downside that I can see.

 

terrible ideas you come up with

I'll be out of here fast as double <deleted> if something like that surfaces

 

 

[lvr181]

16 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Thais are more and more anti-foreigner and nobody feels this more than expats who actually work among elite Thais. They simply don't want them here. Period

And so the Kingdom will, likely, forever remain 3rd world country. They do not want to learn from those coming from a more prosperous culture.

 

As long as the elite or powerful or rich families are ok, sadly, then that is all that counts. 

[wealthychef]

19 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

stickman led the exodus and we all know why ..thai forums have less and less posters nowadays

 

I don't know why, I guess I should go look it up but can you throw out a sentence to say why he left?  

 

[mommysboy]

12 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

I don't know why.

 

I live on the outskirts of bkk. Call me crazy but seven years ago there was hardly a farang. I could go a week and see one. Now they are everywhere. I suppose they aren't western or something, but the numbers surely aren't dwindling. 

Or call you someone that lives near a couple of big schools that employs South African teachers?. 

[Oziex1]

3 hours ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

i am 54, on a retirement visa and have noticed in the last 18 months more girlies seem to want me-show interest than before. Must be the exodus mentioned in the article. Money must be short. 555

Hello Welcome, Hansum Man?

[Thaidream]

Some very interesting and truthful impressions of the real Thailand.  The way to limit irritations that works for me-

-I have given up trying to change or alter the way any Thai thinks or acts-  it is impossible unless they live abroad for some years, so I accept the 'loss of face'; selfishness; poor driving as part of Thai culture that I  now ignore but inwardly laugh about as being ridiculous.

 

-I try and limit my exposure to any Thai official or Government office.

 

-I keep my bank accounts and all monies offshore to avoid having to deal with Thai banks and officials

 

-I refuse to join the Thai rat race while on the highways of speeding; changing lanes erratically etc.  When a  Thai vehicle flashes their lights and is one foot behind me- I simply ignore it.  If the police stop me at a checkpoint- I smile and pretend never to understand them  even though I can speak Thai.

 

-If I am somewhere such as a market or place of business and the Thai clerk makes remarks about me or about foreigners in general- I makes sure that I speak Thai well enough to let them know  I understand what they said- simply smile and move on.

 

-I refuse to become selfish; cut in front of people and  not hold the door open for a person behind me.  Maybe a few people will notice and change their behavior.

 

-I smile all the time in various situations just like the Thais do but they can't understand my body language and what I really feel.

 

-I ignore what the Thai news says and what the Thai Government also says- no one knows if any of it is true or if it is- it can change again next week.

 

-I never get into discussion with a Thai about Thai systems; criticize the Thai way or say anything that can be construed as a threat to them.  If they don't care about reforms, corruption or their way of life- why should I?

 

These are just some examples that I use in Thailand to keep my sanity .

 

[keith89]

I have just left Thailand after 8 years been here.

My plan is to go back to the Uk for 6 months and see how i feel about returning. As i have been thinking about it for a long time. I felt that i was just getting used. as my personal experience is thais just think about money and see what they can get out of you doesnt matter how much you help them they have got very short memories.

Where i lived in nakhon nowhere it was very lonely no one could speak english and i could only speak a little bit of thai.

I am married to a thai teacher she has 2 sons from her previous husband and expects me to pay for there university and i have taken care of them all.  her ex husband pays nothing felt im just an atm.

And they forget that i have a son and daughter in the uk and its like f... your family

 

[Vacuum]

16 hours ago, Canuckabroad said:

Drivers would often speed up when they saw me crossing the street, like I was somehow challenging them.

I've never seen this behaviour in  Thailand,  Penang on the other hand.......

[hanuman2543]

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

No farang "owns" a house in Thailand ha ha

That's not true. A foreigner can own a house without problems. What he can't own is land .

[Netease]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Nice house and nice vistas, but if those are coconut trees, you're gonna be picking coconuts and fronds up off your driveway every time you leave the house. Only mention this because the trees look fairly recently planted.

To me that's part of being here, you have to have something to do to get yourself off the computer for a few hours, may need a work permit to pick them up, living on a large block I doubt I will have a problem though. I wanted to put a snooker table in, but was told I would have to register it with the police, not sure what to do there

[JayBird]

I wonder if the choice to stay or move to Thailand is less about the aspects of Thailand and more a reflection of the rest of the world.

 

It's not that Thailand has issues, it's that everywhere else has issues too.

 

It becomes a question of which issues one can put up with the best.

[Netease]

1 hour ago, stanleycoin said:

That's an impressive Spirit house in your garden.

bet your wife like s that, reckon it will cost a bit for the fairy lights. 

She wanted a timber house, concrete would have been half the price, but we feel Timber is more peaceful. don't talk to me about lights, that's the next saga

[mommysboy]

58 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

So wrong.

I did the numbers a couple years ago when people (on this forum) were crowing about how much they were contributing to the Thai economy and the truth was, the "expat" community in Thailand (as a whole, married/single/working/legal/whatever) contributes a tiny percentage of just the tourism portion of the GDP.  Literally, we are just a drop in the bucket. Against the Thai economy as a whole - we don't even appear on the radar.

And there is a very good reason why they have that financial requirement for retirees and that is because many of them already can't afford to be here as it is ! Thailand doesn't want 5,000,000 more broke, homeless beggars flooding into the country.
It used to be that if you wanted to fly to Hawaii you had to prove you had a return ticket to the mainland as well, for the exact same reasons. People thought they could just fly there, live on a tropical beach, eat coconuts off of the trees or (whatever) and basically live for free.

Never works out that way. You just end up with a bunch of filthy, homeless bums begging on the streets and committing crimes (and filling the hospitals, jails, etc).

Thailand already has enough poor people of it's own, it certainly doesn't need to start importing them from the rest of the world. There are stories all the time already about all the broke, homeless expats living on the beaches (or wherever) in Thailand. I seriously doubt they want to make the problem worse .
And even if Thailand dropped the financial requirements and managed to double or triple (or even quintuple) the number of expat "retirees" here and those "retirees" spent all their money here, it would still be a drop in the overall bucket. Especially considering how many of those "retirees" probably don't even have any social security or other pensions, or any other funds to live on and thus would not be contributing at all to the overall GDP (but would create a massive drain on the healthcare system).

People also seem to think that it would only be people "like them" that would move here. Got a surprise for you. There's a lot of really poor people in a lot of poor countries that would also love to "retire" here with little or no money. (Mainly the ones that don't have relatives in Canada who could bring them over long enough to get them on the Old Age Pension system and then fire them back to the home country). 
Remember, if the grass is "green" for you, it is a whole lot "greener" for a whole lot of people that are even poorer than you are.

 

 

Yes ok, but that still leaves us with the basic point that retirees import monthly amounts of money way north of what the average Thai earns, and quite often make significant investments in property.  It's pure gain for Thailand.

[KiChakayan]

Not a great loss for Thailand, as one can see here that a majority of the expats are penny pinchers, spending evidently less than the average local urban professional.