555555... Now all my kids must sound like a farang??!!

[puukao]

I need to vent somehow, but i'm not really upset.  I'm leaving at the end of next month, anyhow.  Today, the director and second-in-command told me that my students should not speak with a Thai accent, only like a farang.  My kids are six and seven years old.  P1.  They don't mean only proper pronunciation, they really mean proper farang accent as well.  555555...not one kid in 1000 has my accent, so i had to explain to them for hours about expectations, P6s inability to speak (which means years of "bad" teaching"), and how I can't change my kids' accent in three months (maybe really 2.5 already) and make them all fluent.  I'm not sure there are 10 kids in 1000 who could have a conversation for more than two minutes.  

 

Oh, I get it.....they tell the parents one thing, get the money, and then in a few months wonder why everyone isn't fluent.

 

We have chinese teachers from China, but the kids don't speak like they are from China.  5555

 

and i can't even force myself to have a Thai accent where someone might, for one second, think I'm Thai.

 

If this is common, I would like to hear other stories....

 

i'm super happy i'm leaving, and i'm super glad they didn't come to me last year with this non-sense...

 

Oh, and yes, they asked me if I could speak a little bit more like an American.  I'm serious!!  I laughed pretty hard at that one....and then asked why they have six Filipino teachers...

 

funny job

Edited August 6, 2018 by puukao

[55Jay]

You should have asked them what PART of America they wanted you to sound like, specifically.  Or England for that matter.  Then enjoy the dumb looks on their faces. 

 

Glad you are glad about leaving.  Good luck. 

[Scott]

Unhelpful troll posts removed.  

 

Best of luck with future endeavors.

 

I taught everything from Pre-KG through adult classes over the years.   Some of the very young ones do manage to learn a pretty clear, understandable English, but it is much more rare than common and it also occurred with those students exposed to a great deal of English from the same person, or those from the same area.  Those that could say words extremely well, still had to master the art of putting that together into sentences and that's a different matter altogether.  

 

Teaching clear enunciation and pronunciation is a lot more time consuming that what most schools are willing to pay for.   It also requires a bit more training than the average teacher has.  

 

In well over 20 years of teaching.   I had only 1 student who was 100% Thai with neither parent being fluent in English, who actually mastered the ability to sound like a native speaker.   I suspect it had more to do with her ability to acquire language than it did with mine or any of the other teachers' skill at teaching.   I had a lot of students who became very fluent, but she is the only one who can make a phone call (at her place of employment now), and have another native speaker not know that she was not a native English speaker.  

 

 

 

[My Thai Life]

Imagine you are learning a foreign language in your home country. The foreign language uses a different alphabet, writing system, phonic system, tonal system, and grammatical system from your mother tongue.

 

Imagine that you get no exposure to the language outside of 3-5 hours a week in an overcrowded classroom where the local teachers cannot speak the foreign language and the written materials are full of mistakes.

 

And the foreign teachers' knowledge of your language is even lower than your knowledge of theirs.

 

It would be impossible, right?

[puukao]

My kids live in a city with almost zero farangs, none of their parents have likely been to an English country (I've met them), and this week I will teach them English for about 3.5 hours.  I can't hear all 20 kids at once, some don't talk, some won't change how they speak, some try, some are good, some forget......and i'm happy that some can put together thoughts like, "four big pizzas and three small yellow bananas."  the kids are 6 and 7....if they aren't happy then they will end up like our grades 3,4,5, and 6.....defeatist with no motivation to learn my language.   so when the director wants them all to sound exactly like me after 2.5 months it's borderline ridiculous.  not borderline, it is...

 

today they told the Filipinos to speak with an English accent......  555555555555555555555555555555555

 

you pay 18,000 for a teacher, you won't get a good English accent.

 

then they yell at the Thai assistants for not 100% controlling the class, as if they will become fluent if every kids never moves, talks, or does anything.....

 

I feel bad for the teachers who don't have hundreds of thousands of baht in an account to take some time off...

 

in about two years, I've seen about 40 teachers come and go......we only have 50 teachers.  that's a crazy turnover.

 

lol

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

14 hours ago, 55Jay said:

You should have asked them what PART of America they wanted you to sound like, specifically.  Or England for that matter.  Then enjoy the dumb looks on their faces. 

 

Glad you are glad about leaving.  Good luck. 

'Oh, I get it.....they tell the parents one thing, get the money, and then in a few months wonder why everyone isn't fluent.'

 

A twist - family member of buddy started work at famous bi-lingual school, second day is tasked to teach some 200 kids to swim (large number because school had no swim classes for about 1 year). Many parents complaining. Teacher can barely swim himself and has never had a formal swim lesson, supposed to be teaching science.

 

At start of day 4 school director comes by and gets angry 'why can't the kids all swim yet?'

 

Teacher walks out never to return. 

 

 

[kingstonkid]

The kids that I teach are able to have small conversations.  I have some kids that are excellent in English. A p 2 that reads at a p 6 level and scored 80 on the p 6 onet. She hasn't developed an accent

 

Schools promise the world the blame the child not spending 6 hours a night on homework  as the problems

[cms22]

Crazy

Edited August 7, 2018 by cms22

[Pungdo]

I am an Aussie and my daughter will be 7 this Christmas and speaks fluent English, with no Thai accent even though she also speaks excellent Thai and Isaan and it has nothing to do with any English teacher she has had at school to date and everything to do with the English I have taught her.

 

The really odd thing is her last English teacher at her Kindergarten, an English guy, told me a while back that before he met me, he thought her father was an American, I put that down entirely to the amount of American videos she had been watching on Youtube.

[Chassa]

Don'cha know 'The Queens English' You all gotta talk HM.

[ChrisKC]

Thai Teachers of English and their students are not stupid and are not to blame! Students grow up making all the same mistakes as their Teachers. Why? Because the Teachers were taught wrongly and badly themselves. It's about time Thai Teachers of English were taught by English native Speakers and who understand what English speakers actually say in real life. Most text books (including nearly all dictionaries) of Thai to English are created by Thais and quite frankly, should never see the bookshelves!

 

And nothing has changed in the fifteen years I have been here! No shout out from me for the Education Service.

 

Among the plethora of mistakes most Thai people make is pronouncing "rice" as Lice". As an Englishman, I cant' think of anything more revolting than being invited to eat my lovely Thai curry with "lice"

And talking of rice, the Thai expression indicating I will eat: "gin kaow" should not be translated into English as I will "eat rice". It should be interpreted as, I "will eat".

Edited August 7, 2018 by ChrisKC
typo and added comment

[thecyclist]

Many of the Thai English teachers can't even really speak English.

TTypically Thai  question :Teacher, how long will it take me to be fluent in English?

As if you could inject language proficiency. Basically most of them are just too lazy to really work for it. 

[radiochaser]

17 hours ago, 55Jay said:

You should have asked them what PART of America they wanted you to sound like, specifically.  Or England for that matter.  Then enjoy the dumb looks on their faces. 

 

Glad you are glad about leaving.  Good luck. 

I met a young lady at Chulalongkorn University when I was attending Thai language classes.  

After speaking in English with her for a few minutes, I was unable to place her southern (United States) accent, so I asked her.  Where in the southern part of the U.S.  did you grow up in.  

She told me that she was Thai and had never been outside of Thailand.  But you have an accent from one of the southern states of the United States, I exclamed.  She responded, I got that from my English language teacher here at Chula.   He is from the south but I forget which state.  

Her American English was flawless and she sounded just like an American when she spoke.  

As a matter of fact, her English was better than some people that have never been outside of the United States.  

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by radiochaser

[Lucky mike]

The impossible dream ?

[thailand49]

This is Thailand just be glad you are leaving!  When you decide to return and visit you will find nothing has changed.

Here they expect miracles but not willing to make the real sacrifice to meet the goal plus they don't lead by example nor practice what they preach! 

Edited August 7, 2018 by thailand49

[My Thai Life]

Presumably there are a few teachers and/or linguists on this sub-forum.

 

Developing real conversational skills in an EFL context without any exposure outside of the classroom (as in Thailand or Japan for example) is almost impossible; I've already alluded to some of the reasons above.

 

But here's the thing, every Prathom student I've ever met can read English to some degree, same for 90% of adult students.

 

Putting the boot on the other foot, I wonder how many foreign teachers here can read any Thai at all, or have the slightest knowledge of Thai grammar; and most will have just a smattering of spoken Thai at best... despite the fact that they are surrounded by the Thai language every day.

Edited August 7, 2018 by My Thai Life

[connda]

When I taught English I always attempted to add pronunciation into the training, but that never meant trying to teach a foreign accent which is silly.  If your student's speech is clear and understandable then you've done a great job.

Leave it to an administrator to demand totally unrealistic goals. 

[My Thai Life]

Agreed Connda. 

 

The concept of English as a lingua franca renders obsolete the pursuit a "native" accent. And ELF is hardly a new concept. For anyone unfamiliar with the ELF Core, this is an interesting read.

 

https://www.britishcouncil.org/voices-magazine/how-teach-english-lingua-franca-elf

 

 

[Cuba]

4 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

Thai Teachers of English and their students are not stupid and are not to blame! Students grow up making all the same mistakes as their Teachers. Why? Because the Teachers were taught wrongly and badly themselves. It's about time Thai Teachers of English were taught by English native Speakers and who understand what English speakers actually say in real life. Most text books (including nearly all dictionaries) of Thai to English are created by Thais and quite frankly, should never see the bookshelves!

 

And nothing has changed in the fifteen years I have been here! No shout out from me for the Education Service.

 

Among the plethora of mistakes most Thai people make is pronouncing "rice" as Lice". As an Englishman, I cant' think of anything more revolting than being invited to eat my lovely Thai curry with "lice"

And talking of rice, the Thai expression indicating I will eat: "gin kaow" should not be translated into English as I will "eat rice". It should be interpreted as, I "will eat".

 

Hit the nail on the head here. The only thing I would add to this is that it's pretty much impossible for students to improve theur English skills in a government school. 1 class per week for around 35 weeks per year is nowhere near enough. Especially as after they have left class they will never speak English again until the following week.

 

[jenny2017]

20 hours ago, 55Jay said:

You should have asked them what PART of America they wanted you to sound like, specifically.  Or England for that matter.  Then enjoy the dumb looks on their faces. 

 

Glad you are glad about leaving.  Good luck. 

Pennsylvanian Dutch would cure the superiors. ?

[billmichael]

Such nonsense.  Personally, I ADORE the way Thai speak.  There is no need to tear them away from their heritage.  This reminds me of brainwashing Native American children to cleanse them of their history and culture.  Perhaps the "director" should be encouraged to return to their own country and stop mucking about with something that is already perfect.

Edited August 7, 2018 by billmichael
Clarify I meant the director who created this silly policy

[NetJunkie116]

10 hours ago, billmichael said:

Perhaps the "director" should be encouraged to return to their own country

 

Did you even read the opening post? 

[Elkski]

It's sad to hear this.   But if they are so cheap to only budget 18 k fir a English teacher I don't see much hope.   Who would take a job for 18 k?

[puukao]

I've been in Thailand a few years, took about four classes in Thai and can read much better than most.  I get lazy and forget some tones, and my Thai is maybe, maybe "Advanced Beginner" but I mainly enjoy saying some local dialects for the laughs.  One thing I don't have is the accent to sound Thai, as if someone will think I was born in this country.  I had a parent close her eyes and listen to two Thais and me, and we just laughed.  In fact, I'm PROUD of where I'm from and I don't want to change my accent.  I don't want these kids to try to speak differently than their parents, that just sounds crazy to me.  I'm not sure what my identity was when I was six, but I'm sure it wasn't trying to speak differently than my parents.  or my friends, for that matter....

 

It's funny, a few months ago it was all about getting more kids and their money.  we maxed out the class size.  now, after three months, the parents are finally realizing that the school promised some crazy things......lol.......and yesterday they told me to do some "marketing."   I told them to kick out half the class who can't write A to Z in a timely manner they never should have  been put in this "advanced" class.  Of course that's not going to happen.

 

It's a small class, and some kids have severe learning disabilities.  OK, no problem, they are safe and the parents are paying for this safety.  But let's remember I can't solve a kid who has tendencies to do some outburst, crying, and must sometimes run in the back of the room.  every kid seems pretty happy......

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by puukao

[unblocktheplanet]

My grad students are fluent in English by age 23 or so. But we talk too fast for them to hold a conversation. They watch English movies with English subtitles. (Try it! You'll like it, too!)

 

Bottom line: It's really hard to learn any language. If our kids get discouraged, they won't pick it up again.

 

Success story: 20-year old Thai daughter is entering third year university in Canada. While I am quite amazed at how incomplete her English is, it's way better than most native speakers.

[NanLaew]

My Scottish-born and educated sister, replete with teaching certificates, a couple of degree's and a Master's in English Literature was denied a teaching job in Hawaii because she "didn't sound English".

[connda]

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

My Scottish-born and educated sister, replete with teaching certificates, a couple of degree's and a Master's in English Literature was denied a teaching job in Hawaii because she "didn't sound English".

Well laddy, Scots have been telling those folks living to the south that we're really not English nor do we want to be.  <laugh>

[My Thai Life]

I did a short review of my changing accent recently as I wanted to explore this topic from personal experience. Well the review turned out to be quite long.

 

Celtic>south east English>hiso RP English>hippy>modern cockney>clipped corporate>mid-Atlantic drawl>perfect ?

 

oh, I forgot a good dose of the south London Brixton twang, but I've since grown out of that.

Edited August 8, 2018 by My Thai Life

[NetJunkie116]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:43 AM, puukao said:

It's funny, a few months ago it was all about getting more kids and their money.  we maxed out the class size.  now, after three months, the parents are finally realizing that the school promised some crazy things......lol.......and yesterday they told me to do some "marketing."   I told them to kick out half the class who can't write A to Z in a timely manner they never should have  been put in this "advanced" class.  Of course that's not going to happen.

 

It's a small class,

 

Make your mind up.

[falangjim]

First off, they are your students, not your kids, although I can appreciate your dedication.  Your title made it confusing; I thought this was a father bemoaning his own children not having a 100% foreign accent. 

 

As for experience in this matter, I have come across parents of students who want their children to develop a 100% foreign accent. (American, British, etc).  I find this mostly with the Chinese parents. It's a very unrealistic expectation.  Just my 2 cents.

Edited August 9, 2018 by falangjim