How safe is touring Thailand by motorbike?

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Look at the statistics for road accidents and deaths, then see what proportion involve motorcycles. Then consider your future.

[stephenterry]

Yeah, it's a lottery - I would go by train.

[maximillian]

1 hour ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Could you give some specifics on why you think that based on your motorcycle touring experience in Thailand?

 

1 hour ago, Farangwithaplan said:

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

Great idea so long as you keep off the roads!

Could you give some specifics on why you think that based on your motorcycle touring experience in Thailand?

 

How about accident statistics and the fact that about 75% of all killed are mc riders.

[Gecko123]

27 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

<deleted> me buttercup, you're as well locking yourself in the house, away from sharp objects!!

 

I'd hate to go through life worry as much as you, before you know it you'll be on your death bed thinking 'what if'.

 

But, as they say up to you....

Whatever, tiger. Knowing the risks doesn't make someone a scaredy cat. I doubt the OP fully appreciated the concerns I enumerated, and I doubt you do either. At least four foreign guys in my immediate area have either died or had serious injuries on bikes. The learning curve for driving here is longer and steeper than in the West. Efforts to make the OP and others aware of the risks shouldn't be poo-pooed just so you can bolster your self-image as a fearless free-spirited midnight cowboy.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Gecko123

[pgrahmm]

Nobody has yet mentioned pot holes that are big enough to damage a light cars suspension let alone toss a motorbike..... Especially with small diameter tires...Invisible in the rain & worse at night.....

 

A friend of mine rides with big bike groups....These guys have been riding many, many years.....They lose about one a year to m/c crashes.....

 

I rode for many years, owned/rode everything from small bikes to Ducati's & Goldwings......

 

I won't/don't ride here.....

Edited August 13, 2018 by pgrahmm

[fxe1200]

Besides protective gear it is essential to have a real loud horn. Always be able to stop within the distance you can overlook. Avoid motorcycle lanes, use the center of the left lane. Last not least: Whatever is way behind of you cannot become dangerous.

Edited August 13, 2018 by fxe1200

[Jimbo2014]

Check the stats - Thailand is officially only behind Libya in road deaths per capita.  The vast majority involve motorbikes.  My friend just got his bike and 2 weeks later a 17 year old girl wearing no helmet did a sudden blind turn onto the main road.  He hit her at about 80 KM, shaved half his bike off - fortunately he was in full protective and didnt get run over by a bus - she nearly died and spent a month in hospital.  As a car driver here I live in constant fear and see the most insane things on the road I have seen outside of a stint I did in Abuja.  Sudden multi-lane blind changes no indicator are common.  I felt safer riding a motorbike in Hanoi - at least there everyone else was on a motorbike.  Here noone looks out any more as most drive cars like they are all high on coke.

[colinneil]

38 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

I am sure you feel a lot emotions over what happened to you and I hope your quality of life continues to improve.

 

With respect, I did however ask for specifics relating to touring motorcycles around the country as was noted by the OP.

I rode a motorbike around Mae Hong Son/ Pai for 15 months in around the mountains, never a problem, came back home to Issan and in only 4 months got totalled by an idiot.

[maximillian]

1 hour ago, colinneil said:

You want some specifics?

Well almost every Thai is a loveable kind decent person, until they get behind the wheel, or on a motorbike.

Then they become wild/ crazed idiots.

How do i know? A crazed idiot here made me paraplegic, thats how i know, and that happened only 1 kilometer from my home.

 

Neil, you should have asked TVF members before sitting on a bike...

Sorry, I know it's not a joking matter. Sorry again.

 

[pgrahmm]

7 minutes ago, maximillian said:

 

 

How about accident statistics and the fact that about 75% of all killed are mc riders.

The last I saw showed 94 out of every 100 road fatalities here were on motorcycles......

[Kerryd]

Thailand ranks #1 (or 2 depending on whose stats you use) in the number of traffic accidents and fatalities per capita - in - the - world.

There is a reason for that.

I've ridden a fair bit around the country, as far north as Chiang Mai a couple times, up to Khon Kaen a few times, as far east as Sakon Nakhon, down to Koh Chang, over to Sa Kaeo and Buriram/Surin/Sisaket and a few other places on my Harley. Sometimes in a group, often on my own.

I used to be a Driver Instructor in the military as well as a Defensive Driving Instructor. I used to teach people what to look for (and be prepared for) so they could try and avoid accidents.

In Thailand I try to anticipate what could happen every second I'm on the bike. It helps but, "This is Thailand" (TiT). Sh** is going to happen no matter what you do.

 

You didn't say what type of bike you will be riding. In most cases you will still face the same dangers.

 

ALWAYS make sure you have PROPER insurance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not "Travel" Insurance unless it specifically covers motorcycles/scooters. Most don't. 

Make sure you have the proper license !! In many cases, if you have an accident and you don't have a license to operate that type of vehicle, your insurance could be voided. Note: Some countries will issue an International Driver's Permit (IDP) and note that you can drive "scooters up to 125 cc" even if you don't have Motorcycles on your native driving license. That IDP does NOT overrule an Insurance Company's policy (as far as riding motorcycles is concerned) and if you are on anything bigger than a 125cc scooter you could be screwed as well (and not in a good way).

Also keep in mind that even if you have Healthcare coverage in your home country, it may NOT apply if you are out of the country !
For example, I'm from Canada and used to have BC Medical Coverage. I found out, by actually checking on it, that even if I left the province of BC for more than a day, I wouldn't be covered by my Insurance (even if I was just in the next province over, as each province manages their own Healthcare system and have different policies and such). I was told that if I was going to be out of the province (or out of the country) I should contact them first, so that they could tell me I wouldn't be covered and that I should find a 3rd party Insurer to cover me for the time I would be gone.

 

Too many people (tourists) in Thailand get into accidents on scooters/motorcycles and then find out that they aren't covered, by anyone !

While riding, you will mostly be in the left lane, or along the left shoulder of the road (if there is one). (Technically it is illegal to drive in the right lane(s) unless you are passing someone.)

Things to watch out for.

#1 - people (cars, motos, farm equipment) turning onto the roadway directly in front of you without the slightest glance to see if anyone is coming ! Happens so frakken often I have started thinking that they are taught to never, ever, look to their right when turning onto a road.
     Other motorists will (very) often never signal their intentions and will (very) often change lanes, turn and/or brake (or all 3) without the slightest care for anyone else on the road. Be prepared.

 

Animals. Dogs, cows, water buffalo, snakes, elephants. They are all stupid when it comes to roads and vehicles and will often lay down in the middle of a lane (or on the shoulder) or walk out into traffic and then bolt (always the "wrong" way) when they sense danger.

Except for elephants. They will probably just go straight at you. They always have the right of way no matter what !

Obstructions. Some roads are pretty decent. Some are absolute crap. Even on good roads you will often find garbage and debris that will cause you problems (on a bike). Also, depending on the season, you can find a lot of mud/sand tracked onto the roads by traffic entering from dirt side-roads. Very slippery on a bike. Or things like "husks" from sugar cane and rice, that get blown off of the trucks hauling those things. Often (during harvest season) you will see where the trucks hauling that stuff enter the main road as there will be a long trail of crushed husks heading down the road for hundreds of meters.
You may also find things like concrete barriers, construction materials, dead animals, pieces of old tires, patches of broken and/or uneven pavement, missing manhole covers and of course, broke down (or simply parked) vehicles on the side of the road. Be very careful especially if you can't see the driver. Could be someone who stopped to take a whiz, hopped back into their vehicle and immediately pulls out back into traffic without a glance to see if anyone was coming up from behind.

The roads. As mentioned, many are in great condition. Others however, can be an adventure. For example, the 304 highway heading north towards Nakhon Ratchisima. I swear, I've been up and down that mountain in Prachin Buri a dozen times over the last 4-5 years and every single time I go, there is always road construction work going on. It is (in most places) 2 lanes and ALL the "big" trucks seem to be in 1st gear the whole way (up and down) and they all hug the shoulder (to allow more room in the middle). Of course, everyone (in cars, trucks, vans or bikes) tries to use the middle to pass everyone else (going both ways, at the same time). Even more fun when a big, slow truck (in 1st gear) decides to pass another big, but slightly slower truck.

(You know how a solid yellow line in the center of the road, or double solid yellow lines, means no passing ? In Thailand those are just "suggestions" to be ignored if inconvenient regardless of the danger.)
In other places you can encounter long, long stretches of pot holes, crappy repair jobs and "bumps" that will literally launch you out of your seat ! Watch the traffic ahead of you (if there is any) and be prepared to react (quickly).

I've also found more than a couple of "bends" on highways that seem to curve more sharply after you've entered them. (What's the term for that again ?) You enter the curve, everything is good but suddenly you feel like you are being pulled across the road and you are trying to lean even further over and it's not helping. I also had the deadly "high speed wobble" in my front end in the middle of one curve on the way to Chiang Mai one year. No idea what was happening, or why, but my front end suddenly started to "wobble" as though the front axle was broken or the tire was about to fall off. Slowed right down in a hurry and was able to straighten out (sit up) and the wobble went away. (The bike was fine, no mechanical issues at all when I had it checked after we got to our destination.)

Watch out for people passing (regardless of the road markings) on blind corners, while going through intersections and while cresting hills (where you can't see what may be barely a hundred meters ahead of you. Until it's too late.)

Big trucks also like to pass other big trucks, especially if the guy ahead is doing 2-3 kms/hr less than the guy behind and they will often pull out without signalling as well. Been a couple of times I was very glad that there was a "shoulder" on the right side of the (divided) highway that I could use as I was about to pass a big truck and he suddenly changes lanes so he can pass the guy in front of him. Most truckers are pretty good when it comes to bikes on the roads though. Quite often if they see you they will signal or move over to give you room to pass them.

Speed limits are also considered to be "suggestions" in many cases (though maybe with all the traffic cams people in some areas may slow down - probably not). On a trip I took in April (Pattaya to Korat, Chum Pae, Khon Kaen, Udon Thani, Sakon Nakhon, Sisaket) I must have passed 50-60 signs saying that there were "speed cameras" in operation and I was sure I'd have a ton of speeding tickets when I go home (as I may have been slightly over the speed limit a couple of times). Not a one. I'm guessing the signs were for show and that there weren't any actual cameras. Passed a couple of those signs where they actually show your speed and again I thought for sure I was going to get dinged.

(Note - I usually keep within about 10(ish) km/hr of the posted speed limit but will slow down, a lot, if I get into any kind of traffic. Some people though look at traffic like it's a video game and they have to get through it as fast as possible "or else". I've ridden with a few like that and I always wonder why I haven't attended their cremation ceremony. Yet.)

Personally, the main danger I encounter, every single time I go for a ride, is People. Keep in mind that a lot of people on the roads have never had a driving class in their lives, may not have a license, or be properly registered and, most importantly, may not have any insurance at all (not even the mandatory government insurance). As a foreigner, even if you are 100% in the "right", you risk being blamed for any accident. The last time I had a minor accident I was explaining to the senior officer what had happened. He nodded a couple of times, then I reached down to the bike and pulled out the card that had the Insurance company's 24 hour emergency number and started to call them.

As soon as the officer saw that, he looked at me and said "Insurance ?". I replied "Yes" and suddenly that was it. Pack everything and everyone up and head to the police station. No more need to investigate anything. At the police station I had to show my passport and driving license and proof of insurance, but the other guy never had to show anything other than his ID card. (I'm sure he didn't have a license at all, or insurance, or was even registered but it didn't matter because I had coverage which apparently means my Insurance pays for everything regardless of who was actually to blame for the accident.)

In 10 years of riding the Harley, I've had 2 minor accidents from people cutting in front of me without looking or signalling (including the one noted above), a couple of "close calls" from people turning onto a roadway directly in front of me without looking, another close call from a 5 ton truck that thought he could beat me through an intersection while I was doing 90 on the main road (and had the "right of way" which is also just a "suggestion" in Thailand). Good thing my rear brakes were working great as I ended up doing a side skid then was able to let off the brakes. hit the gas and go behind the truck with inches (literally) to spare. Thought for sure I was going to clip the back of his truck. If the brakes hadn't been working as well I would have t-boned him and probably wouldn't be here right now.

Had another close call from a tarp that blew off of a truck and almost landed right on top of me. That was barely a couple weeks after I'd bought the bike and was on my first "group" ride. 

Had some other close calls when I've tried to change lanes, signalled, looked (checked blind spot), started to move and had someone decide to try and blat past me, usually it's been some punk on a scooter with no helmet, smoking a cigarette and talking on the phone. Always, always double check before changing lanes as it seems no one else will bother noticing what you are doing.

Even if you have signalled your intent to make a turn (i.e. a right turn at an intersection, or on a road or literally anywhere in the country), you are straddling the center line (or the edge of the lane) and have waited until it was safe to make the turn, check your blind spot again as quite often there will be someone who sees that the oncoming lane is clear and will decide to try and go around you on your right, totally ignoring the fact that you are making a turn.

Oh. I also had one "close call" from a dog that ran out onto a highway and, of course, when I went to go around the back of him (thinking he'd keep going across the road) he stops and darts back the way he came, directly in my path. I actually straightened my tire expecting I was going to hit him and hoping I would just "bounce" over him and not have my front tire go into a skid. Miss him by "that much". Managed to not sh** my pants as well !

(You'll see a lot of dead animals, mostly dogs and cats, on the roads.)

I've had so many of those "close calls" over the years that I installed a GoPro camera to record what I see every time I go for a ride. The only problem is the batteries barely last 2 hours. On that last accident, the batteries had died maybe 2 hours before so it was useless for showing what happened. 

I have since installed a new camera system which has front and rear cameras and runs off of "bike power". It is set up to turn on automatically when I start the bike, turn off 1 minute after the bike shuts down (for any reason) and has a "sensor" that detects sudden changes in speed (like the sudden deceleration that happens in an accident) and "locks" the current file so it can't be accidentally deleted (and is therefore available for use if need be).

 

Of course, I'm hoping that I never have to use that feature but, as I plan on doing a lot more riding in the future and as "This is Thailand", you just never know.

 

Again, there is a reason why Thailand is #1 in the world for traffic accidents and fatalities (per capita) !

 

[CGW]

About 25 years ago I toured just about everywhere in Thainad over a period of many years, I survived, looking back I do sometimes wonder how ? 

There is a lot more traffic on the roads now, although to counter that the roads are in a lot better condition and there are more of them.

 

Learning how traffic flows in Thailand is not easy, U turns are both normal and dangerous, getting used to oncoming traffic ⛔  

Add to that there are a bunch of nutcases on the roads that have no idea how to drive, who's main priority is "Me, me me!

Lane discipline is non existent, roads are not policed once out of the cities.

Its dangerous enough for an experienced Rider, for a novice getting it wrong could well have dire consequences!

Good luck if you decide to go ahead with the trip, you will need some luck ? 

[Media1]

When you ride you must expect the worse outcome and be prepared and be viewing in mirrors and headchecks. Do not tailgate 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Media1

[Farangwithaplan]

48 minutes ago, maximillian said:

 

 

How about accident statistics and the fact that about 75% of all killed are mc riders.

And how many of these people involved in these are riding well maintained vehicles including working brakes and lighting systems?

How many are wearing safety gear with CE certification?

How many have a license and can actually ride a bike to a level that is deemed acceptable to modern standards?

How many were riding in a safe manner at the time of the incident?

How many involved alcohol or drugs?

How many were riding defensively with correct lane positioning?

How many were riding beyond their skill level?

 

I don't know but I would be willing to wager not a whole lot of those 75% were doing things correctly and minimising risk.  One can't just take a statistic like the one you mentioned without giving it context to understand what it means. What was the percentage of single vehicle accidents? How many were in city traffic? Dropping in such a statistic is a cop out whether it is intentional or not.

 

Of most of the B roads I use for touring, I rarely see other bikes or cars like in built up areas. But as I mentioned in my original post, there are hazards. Never ride past your skill level and a rider must anticipate and assume the worst. In some ways riding a motorcycle in Thailand has benefits over the west, in others it is worse.

 

[Farangwithaplan]

58 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

Nobody has yet mentioned pot holes that are big enough to damage a light cars suspension let alone toss a motorbike..... Especially with small diameter tires...Invisible in the rain & worse at night.....

 

A friend of mine rides with big bike groups....These guys have been riding many, many years.....They lose about one a year to m/c crashes.....

 

I mentioned potholes in my first post in this thread.

 

Most of the big bike groups I see on roads in thailand act like they are Valentino Rossi and ride accordingly. They leave very little distance between each other for braking or defensive steering. I'm not suprised by the rate of attrition.

 

I also see a not insignificant number of bike riders using slick tyres here. The irony on this is that racing tyres need to get up to a certain temperature before they work properly and help with traction. If they aren't at the working temperature, they are actually more dangerous than a standard modern road tyre. It is very hard to get racing compound tyres up to temperatures on most public roads - aside from maybe some of the great twisty roads in the mountains, but again the speeds you need to hit at times make it impractical for life longevity.

 

One tip might be, if you see someone riding on slicks in Thailand, steer very clear of them.

 

 

[NCC1701A]

I want to start at thread called "How safe is having unprotected sex in Thailand?"

 

and then read everybody's experience on that subject. 

[NCC1701A]

7 hours ago, sidjameson said:

Am I signing my own death certificate? 

 

[sammieuk1]

7 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

I want to start at thread called "How safe is having unprotected sex in Thailand?"

 

and then read everybody's experience on that subject. 

That's just scratching the surface for starters?

[cornishcarlos]

17 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

I want to start at thread called "How safe is having unprotected sex in Thailand?"

 

and then read everybody's experience on that subject. 

 

I damaged my helmet once !!!

[Farangwithaplan]

12 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

That's just scratching the surface for starters?

If you are scratching anywhere, you should get it seen to.

 

[Kwasaki]

7 hours ago, sidjameson said:

Very inexperienced but always cautious rider. Never takes risks on the bike. Daytime riding. Always under the speed limit.

Am I signing my own death certificate? 

My take is after doing trips all over as said it's safe just keep wits about you as already rightly said.

If you have got to be aware of the bad road users habits your good to go.

 

I always say in the many take cares,  watch out and treat everyone as an idiot, at bends and blind hills, at traffic lights, traffic from side turns, give yourself space whenever possible, avoid night riding on roads you don't know. 

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Could you give some specifics on why you think that based on your motorcycle touring experience in Thailand?

The road accident/death statistics,especially on motorbikes in Thailand are THE most specific and relevant information available. Anecdotal evidence counts for little- the ones that didn’t survive can’t write their versions.

[scubascuba3]

I ride a lot around Pattaya but as i go further out different rules seem to apply. Thais like overtaking on bends, motorbikes are encouraged out of the road into the left side. Pick ups will race past you from nowhere at break neck speed and of course the issues of people drink driving more evident at night and early morning. Good luck

 

 

[NCC1701A]

There should be a rule that when asking a question on a forum, you give your age and what country you are from.

 

Obviously there is more of a learning curve for someone from the USA having to deal with riding on the other side of the road and over coming a lifetime of muscle memory. The first few days or weeks can be a lot of fun.   

 

I guess by "motorbike" you mean a scooter because if you have little or no experience with a shifting, turning and stopping a motorcycle you will just apply the front brakes while turning and drop the bike like in 10 seconds after you get on it. 

 

I have ridden 27,000 kilometers on my Kawasaki 650 all over Thailand.  

 

Every road trip is planed right down to every detail, sometimes months in advance.

 

I have way points for stopping every 100 kilometers. 100% focus on riding. 0% on worrying about where or when to stop.

 

I approach every ride like it is a life or death mission because the Thais are trying to kill you. They don't care about anything except getting in front of the car or bike that is in front of them. On coming traffic is the biggest game of chicken with cars pulling out in to your lane, 24/7. It never stops. Any lapse in concentration on your part and you are dead.

 

Everyday is the same. You never magically have enough experience where you overcome the madness.  There are just too many of them coming at you from all sides.

 

As for age you really need to get your ego out of the equation because you will die if you get triggered. You can not react emotionally. So young guys have to stow the alpha wolf sh*t.

 

OK. Have fun on your trip and post some photos.

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by NCC1701A

[Vacuum]

3 hours ago, colinneil said:

Well almost every Thai is a loveable kind decent person, until they get behind the wheel, or on a motorbike.

Then they become wild/ crazed idiots.

+1 

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Besides protective gear it is essential to have a real loud horn. Always be able to stop within the distance you can overlook. Avoid motorcycle lanes, use the center of the left lane. Last not least: Whatever is way behind of you cannot become dangerous.

My friend died last year large touring bike, experienced, full protective gear. He got the wobs went down and hit a wall. No other vehicle involved. Slightly down the highway he would have been in a field and probably ok.

[scubascuba3]

 
you really need to get your ego out of the equation because you will die if you get triggered. You can not react emotionally. So young guys have to stow the alpha wolf sh*t.
 
 

I'm not sure its just the young guys. The way i like to see it is you need to control the urge to speed

[scubascuba3]

My friend died last year large touring bike, experienced, full protective gear. He got the wobs went down and hit a wall. No other vehicle involved. Slightly down the highway he would have been in a field and probably ok.

Plenty of obstacles in the road, you have to look down almost as much as everywhere else

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

There should be a rule that when asking a question on a forum, you give your age and what country you are from.

Yeah people driving on the wrong side of the road here doesn't mean they come from another country. ?

The tourist cyclists in our village do it a lot unless therewith a Thai guide.

 

As said there's very few places I've haven't been in Thailand a lot of them on a CB400 & a Versys 650 motorbike I had and yeah had a few near misses but never as many as had or use to in England.

 

There's a lot of over the top remarks here IMHO.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Kwasaki

[DILLIGAD]

Just bring a good helmet with you, if you have one. Or you can buy one here before starting your trip.
Good helmet, gloves and boots/shoes are a minimum requirement.
 
As above, just expect the unexpected, keep the speed down and you will have a blast. Best way to see the country I think [emoji846]

+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk