Money owed

[stud858]

A Thai lady friend has a company calling her for money owed.

She was guarantor for a friend purchasing a motorbike (stupid thing to do, i know, but we are past that)

About 15K is owed.

 

The company called her work and I'm not sure why , but the result was the manager at her work was annoyed she involved her personal things at the company and she was fired after an argument happened.

 

Thai lady friend is angry and says she wont pay.

 

What's the likely outcome?  Will they eventually give up?  Will they go to court and get paperwork to take her house?

 

It will be easy for an opinion on the matter , sensible or sarcastic,  and all are welcome, but does anyone know of any such cases and how they turned out?

 

 

 

[jvs]

Easy enough,if she signed as a guarantor for a loan they will come to her for the money.If she wil not pay they will try to get the bike back,depending how much the bike is worth and how much is still owed will decide if your friend will have to pay the difference or not.

Her credit rating will be affected.

Contact the person who has the bike and ask what is going on and take it from there.

[Just Weird]

27 minutes ago, stud858 said:

A Thai lady friend has a company calling her for money owed.

She was guarantor for a friend purchasing a motorbike (stupid thing to do, i know, but we are past that)

About 15K is owed.

 

The company called her work and I'm not sure why , but the result was the manager at her work was annoyed she involved her personal things at the company and she was fired after an argument happened.

 

Thai lady friend is angry and says she wont pay.

 

What's the likely outcome?  Will they eventually give up?  Will they go to court and get paperwork to take her house?

The finance company will not give up but they will not "get paperwork to take her house" unless she offered it as security at the time of signing the contract.  It is likely that it will go to court if no money is paid or the bike is not repossessed but the court will decide if your friend will have to pay.  If it goes against her she will have to pay somehow and that may entail raising a loan against her house and it is only then that she puts the house at risk.

[Pib]

The company calling your lady friend will not give up; they will take her to court if necessary.   Your lady friend signed as a guarantor and now she is on the spot to accomplish what she legally signed up to do. 

 

The only person your lady friend should be mad at is the person she signed as guarantor for....and that's person your lady friend needs to be talking to.

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, jvs said:

Easy enough,if she signed as a guarantor for a loan they will come to her for the money.If she wil not pay they will try to get the bike back,depending how much the bike is worth and how much is still owed will decide if your friend will have to pay the difference or not.

Her credit rating will be affected.

Contact the person who has the bike and ask what is going on and take it from there.

True, but keep in mind the debt recovery agency involved will take the easiest route. They won't mess around with trying to sell the bike unless that's the only last possibility to recover the money.

 

These agencies can and will organize for the guarantors wages to be garnished if needed. 

 

[stud858]

More info. The company did accept the bike back from purchaser after about 6 months. She couldn't afford to pay. So my lady friend thought that was the end of it. But I guess even then the company wanted money to cover losses after having to sell a second hand bike.

This was about  7 years ago.

Does the 5 year statute of limitations apply here.

The bike was given back and after that no document were given or signed by my lady friend.

Surely they had duty of care to notify my lady friend, but she says she was never notified until 7 years later.

[thailand49]

Sadly, your friend is mad at everyone but herself!  Tell her to take responsibility and get an attitude check? The fact she got fired from her job is a great indication she has a stubborn attitude. If your boss said to you take your personal issue off work time that is what you do! end of story!

First, she signed to guarantee the loan obviously the friend that she did it for isn't much of a friend. Your friend doesn't even keep track of her for what 7 years?  And her friend isn't much better to put this on your friend. 

This isn't about the loan company directly, she needs to make good on the contract, or you take care of it, and then go after the friend good luck with that which you aren't going to get it back write it off as a loss along with the friendship which was never a friendship at all just being used!

[connda]

Actually, as the guarantor, she will pay.  It may just take a court order to get her attention, and then she'll be paying the court costs too. 

Ignorance isn't a defense for discharging contractual obligations.  Nor is stupidity. 

[moto77]

Guaranteeing a loan is the same as borrowing the money yourself. If the other party won’t pay, the guarantor should pay as that is what she promised to do. 

They called at work because she gave a work phone number.

 

15,000 is nothing. Tell her to pay up and learn from this before this goes any farther.

[Crossy]

Going against the flow somewhat here, I would be tempted to speak to a lawyer experienced in these matters.

 

After 7 years with no contact one could reasonably expect that the finance had been successfully paid off and that the guarantee was no longer valid.

 

I'm not sure if guarantors are contacted when the guarantee period ends, neither myself nor my good lady sign these things, we both now how it can end.

 

Of course for 500US is it worth the hassle?

 

[stud858]

3 minutes ago, moto77 said:

Guaranteeing a loan is the same as borrowing the money yourself. If the other party won’t pay, the guarantor should pay as that is what she promised to do. 

They called at work because she gave a work phone number.

 

15,000 is nothing. Tell her to pay up and learn from this before this goes any farther.

Thanks for all your inputs.

They found out her work number through other avenues.  And called her work without her permission.

The issue that no communication with her after the bike was returned , and no payment request until 7 years later suggest a judge will throw this out because of the 5 year s.o.l. alone unless of course they provide signed registered mail documents showing they progressed with seeking payments throughout the period. 

Sure, dumb things were done, but if you were to criticise the other side, you could say, they've left it too late to seek payment and they have shown intention to harm her by calling her work and talking to her manager.

I will check to see if I can get a lawyer to send them a letter stating the 5 year statute rule  and even go as far as sueing them for breach of privacy and harassment.

 

P.s.

I know a falang condo manager took people to court but on one case was only able to recover 5 years worth of fees due to the s.o.l rule.

 

 

 

[cnx355]

13 hours ago, Pib said:

The company calling your lady friend will not give up; they will take her to court if necessary.   Your lady friend signed as a guarantor and now she is on the spot to accomplish what she legally signed up to do. 

 

The only person your lady friend should be mad at is the person she signed as guarantor for....and that's person your lady friend needs to be talking to.

About time most Thai should understand what a guarantor is !  Like others said she must contact the <friend> and even

if he does not cooperate, maybe help the finance company to recuperate the motorcycle.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Statue of limitations?

 

Perhaps you are just dreaming you are in Thailand and when you wake up you'll be back in US sharpish.

 

You gotta be kidding me??

 

 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Statue of limitations?

 

Perhaps you are just dreaming you are in Thailand and when you wake up you'll be back in US sharpish.

 

You gotta be kidding me??

 

 

There are statue of limitations in Thailand.  Just for example and not to imply they would apply in this case, but 5 years is one statue of limitations used in Thailand....see below which talks a construction contract, principal due, interest due, etc....just for an example.  And I'm pretty sure that the cut off date for filing a claim which may have been done years although no court action has been taken yet.

http://www.dlapiperrealworld.com/law/index.html?t=construction&amp;s=liability&amp;q=limitation-period&amp;c=TH

[stud858]

11 minutes ago, cnx355 said:

About time most Thai should understand what a guarantor is !  Like others said she must contact the <friend> and even

if he does not cooperate, maybe help the finance company to recuperate the motorcycle.

Friend is out of the picture.

Motorbike was returned. They were paid about 15000 baht already from monthly payments. I think at the time they considered it over too, but someone has gone through old paperwork and thought after 7 years that could chase for more money. I'm hoping they back off and stop harassing when they are made aware of the s.o.l.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

There are statue of limitations in Thailand.  Just for example and not to imply they would apply in this case, but 5 years is one statue of limitations used in Thailand....see below which talks a construction contract, principal due, interest due, etc....just for an example.  And I'm pretty sure that the cut off date for filing a claim which may have been done years although no court action has been taken yet.

http://www.dlapiperrealworld.com/law/index.html?t=construction&amp;s=liability&amp;q=limitation-period&amp;c=TH

 

There is no debt forgiveness in Thailand is all I know.

[stud858]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

There are statue of limitations in Thailand.  Just for example and not to imply they would apply in this case, but 5 years is one statue of limitations used in Thailand....see below which talks a construction contract, principal due, interest due, etc....just for an example.  And I'm pretty sure that the cut off date for filing a claim which may have been done years although no court action has been taken yet.

http://www.dlapiperrealworld.com/law/index.html?t=construction&amp;s=liability&amp;q=limitation-period&amp;c=TH

Thanks Pib, Your a champ. I hope to find in Thai and send to company.

The 5 year rule is all she has got going for her.

[stud858]

6 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

There is no debt forgiveness in Thailand is all I know.

At least one factual case I was close to at my condo going to court went in the favour of the s.o.l. and even more interesting the judge denied any and all late fee interest even the condo act says interest is payable.

So I would beg the opposite. I'd rather be the poor person borrowing than the rich lending. Haha. Not quite, Well you get my point.

[Pib]

Info below may come in handy also...talks how the debt collector can communicate regarding the collection of the debt.

https://www.tilleke.com/resources/thailand’s-new-debt-collection-law-provides-measure-protection

[stud858]

18 minutes ago, Pib said:

Info below may come in handy also...talks how the debt collector can communicate regarding the collection of the debt.

https://www.tilleke.com/resources/thailand’s-new-debt-collection-law-provides-measure-protection

You have now been upgraded to legend. Pib. Did you have this stuff on hand? Have you had similar situation?

 

"The collector cannot tell the third party that the debtor owes a debt unless the third party is a spouse, parent, or child of the debtor.

 

So. They have broken this rule then.

 

at this stage. Will ignore them until official docs come. Will ignore phone calls and only accept email communication so there is a record

 

[Mace648]

Stupidity is not an excuse, what did she think it meant when she signed as a guaranteer?

[PerkinsCuthbert]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

True, but keep in mind the debt recovery agency involved will take the easiest route. They won't mess around with trying to sell the bike unless that's the only last possibility to recover the money.

 

These agencies can and will organize for the guarantors wages to be garnished if needed. 

 

"garnished"?

[stud858]

58 minutes ago, Mace648 said:

Stupidity is not an excuse, what did she think it meant when she signed as a guaranteer?

You are just repeating what I've already said. Forest Gump summed it up. Stupid is as stupid does

[stud858]

For a bank, her work or the land office to allow such things as repo  , they will need courts approval.

They have not and seem reluctant to hand over any documents. They are only using scare talk. Its been 7 years.  The next step is to wait for initial documents. A person needs to be served correctly to go to court. Its not a simple matter of the company to go alone to the court and get repossession papers. It seems the company were too slack in their indictment.

[spidermike007]

Since it would probably cost her nearly 15,000 to hire a lawyer, to study this issue, and discuss it with the finance company (more than likely some sort of collection agent, at this stage) and her credit is at risk here, it might make sense to just pay it off. She learned a valuable lesson. Signing on as a guarantor is a serious thing. The title should have remained in her name until the loan was paid off, perhaps. She may be able to negotiate a discount on a debt that old. Chances are the collection agent paid pennies on the dollar for the debt. At least that is how it works in the US. 

 

And she should look into whether or not her credit has already been trashed due to this. If it has, she can just tell them - "see ya, but I wouldn't want to be ya".

[stud858]

14 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Since it would probably cost her nearly 15,000 to hire a lawyer, to study this issue, and discuss it with the finance company (more than likely some sort of collection agent, at this stage) and her credit is at risk here, it might make sense to just pay it off. She learned a valuable lesson. Signing on as a guarantor is a serious thing. The title should have remained in her name until the loan was paid off, perhaps. She may be able to negotiate a discount on a debt that old. Chances are the collection agent paid pennies on the dollar for the debt. At least that is how it works in the US. 

 

And she should look into whether or not her credit has already been trashed due to this. If it has, she can just tell them - "see ya, but I wouldn't want to be ya".

It would be a bonus if her recorded credit rating was trashed. She wouldn't be given another loan. Not a bad thing.

 

I'm against loaning. If you haven't got money, go without.

 I think my advice too is to pay, but only if they are providing court documents. Which they are not.

Wait for their next move.

 

[luk AJ]

Stupidity is not an excuse, what did she think it meant when she signed as a guaranteer?

I think it is an excuse..with the level of education in Thailand I am convinced many people are in the same situation. I would be surprised if there is a word for guarantor in Thai language.


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[andygrr]

 I don't know how statute of limitations works you say 7 years have passed but I take it that is from purchase of the bike. If the loan was for say 3 or 4 years then surely only 3 or 4 years have passed since the loan defaulted.  Does this affect S.O.L date

[Naroge]

If you are going to use statue of limitations as an excuse to get of of this, then consider how long the "friend's" original loan was. Certainly longer than the day she defaulted. And as the contract was valid until at least the date for last payment, that would be the earliest date a statue of limitations would be counted from. There could be articles in the contract that pushes it further back though.

[jimn]

So funny reading most of the replies on here. All correct in the western world, but not in Thailand. Their debt recovery system over here is fundamentally flawed. Thais run away from their debts all the time with no consequeces. Its a wonder finance companies loan any money at all.