advice -dead thai wife children refuse to sell the house...

[evilebxxx]

Hello,

My Thai wife died 2 years ago at home here in Udon Thai, I have reside here in the house bough for us over 25 years ago, and land of 225 talang wah, I now want to sell house, but her 2 gown up children refuse to agree to that, also stolen all 3 land titles when they visiting here , I also told them that I would split the money 50 50, but noway they will accept that, what to do?

[evilebxxx]

got a positive call just now, pressured them more

[DuiDui48]

Nothing YOU can do i think,get a good lawyer that has done this before..Checkup needed on the lawyer.Bankok Lawyers..Goodluck.

And maybe file a Policereport regarding the stolen docs.

 

Goodluck.

[Peterw42]

OP, I dont think anyone can give any advice, other than speak to a lawyer, without some details of your circumstances. How is the land owned, company, wife's name etc, do you have userfruct/lease in place, is there a will. Do you literally mean sell the house separate to the land.

You cant offer 50/50 split or force a sale on something you dont own. If the children are legal heirs to the land and executors of a will etc, they haven't stolen any documents.

25 years ago involved a westerner signing a document for no claim over marital land etc.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Peterw42

[OmarZaid]

It appears you are stuck ... they will simply wait you out .... not only that, but finding a buyer is yet another problem ... best pack up and leave ,,, that chapter's over ... God rest her

[johnno2]

As people have said, it's a legal case now, find a lawyer. If the kids have done this already, it's only going to get worse. 

[Expatthailover]

Lets be fair even in good old back home adult children could contest disposal of assets when a parent carks it.

I realise thai bashing is a popular passtime for some but the same 'some' should take off the rose coloured specs and realise money does things to people.

Maybe you should realise that a house you bought in the sticks 25 years ago was bought for a song and you have had a good run

Edited September 1, 2018 by Expatthailover

[IAMHERE]

Screw the house up good , starting now.

[smotherb]

52 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

Lets be fair even in good old back home adult children could contest disposal of assets when a parent carks it.

I realise thai bashing is a popular passtime for some but the same 'some' should take off the rose coloured specs and realise money does things to people.

Maybe you should realise that a house you bought in the sticks 25 years ago was bought for a song and you have had a good run

What you say has merit. However, back home property is normally bought in both names of a married couple. Barring any specific ownership agreements, if the property was bought in both names, he would be entitled to at least half the house and land.  

 

The fact that he may have bought it for a song, doesn't mean he shouldn't share in its current value. That is a primary consideration for buying property, is it not?  

 

As I see it, this is just another reason to buy somewhere you can own without undue complication.  

[Oxx]

Clearly you don't own the land, and presumably the children inherited it when their mother died. If that's the case, then there's nothing wrong with them taking the title deeds.

Do you own the house? Or was it in your late wife's name? If the latter, then again, you are not the owner, and presumably the children are.

My guess is that you have no right to house or land, and should be grateful that the children have allowed you to continue living there for a couple of years - presumably rent free.

[Scouse123]

 

Nowhere near enough information to give an informed opinion as the OP is way too sketchy on background details regarding this house.

 

1. Did you buy and build it or was it gifted?

2. Whose name is it in or is it in a company?

3. Any usufruct or long-term lease involved?

4. Any will?

5. Are the children from a previous relationship and are they the executors?

6. Was any of this discussed previously whilst your wife was living?

7. What was your personal ' financial investment ' in the house?

 

All these questions need to have answers before you can move forward.

 

For example, we have a large plot up in the sticks and I put a lot of money into our side buildings wise 20 years ago. I made the family, at that time,, sell our piece to my spouse and switch it to her sole name. They attempted to argue that we were all family together and it was not necessary ' I said, no chance!

 

My spouse and I, then did a legally binding ' usufruct '

 

On their side of the land ( There is now a 7-foot wall that separates the properties)  the sister has borrowed from money lenders ( twice), the brothers have retrieved the chanote by financially investing their money but the land is still in the sister's name! They have tried on numerous occasions to borrow from me. Again, no chance!

 

It's a complete mess next door and the land remains undeveloped and they are now not speaking to each other. Just one of the perils of not ' doing things right in the first place '

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Scouse123

[BTB1977]

Knock the house down. Gas leak big boom. I don't know what happened???

[balo]

Need more info from OP. 

 

Best advice is to get a good lawyer , and be prepared for a long fight in court.

But if you do not own the house/land I can't really see any progress here. 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by balo

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well it appears to me that you are still living in this house for free, and have all the rights for use of this land. Under Thai Law you are not allowed to own this property. Without a Will, or a simular document registered at Land Title, like a Usufruct, after one year you have no rights to it at all, and could find yourself out on the street with nothing. 

 

It also appears to me that if you and your wife owned this house for the last 25 years, then these kids must have grew up in that house to. There may be a lot of sentimental value attached to this house, and memories of there mother for the kids, that you are not seeing here, and perhaps why they don't want to sell this property. I think one of the most difficult things I would have to do right now, is drive past my Parents House in which I grew up in, who passed on, knowing it was sold and belongs to somebody else now.

 

It seems to me your motivation to sell this house is strickly for money, where the kids motivation may be different. If it s for money to then it only makes sense to wait it out until you pass on, and they would get 100% and not 50%. I know I would if I was younger.    

[vinegarbase]

10 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

Maybe those that are toying with the idea of moving to Thailand should do some careful research before risking their life savings.

As the saying goes "Be prepared to lose weight when you come to Thailand" Because more than likely you are going to be a lot lighter in your pockets when you eventually have to leave. 

 

A: I lost weight in Thailand B: Wow, how much did you lose? A: 100,000 and a house. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by vinegarbase

[RT555]

Where did the money come from to buy the land/house? Surely they can't prove otherwise.... Get a lawyer. Or get a Zippo. 

[connda]

This is an object lesson for those who have married a Thai national and have significant funds tied up in a home.
Bottom line: while your Thai national 'significant other' is still living you absolutely need to obtain a usufruct contract giving you legal right to remain on the land until you pass away or to be a party in the sale of the land and premise - and - a last will and testament that legally states exactly what assets belong to you and which belong to other family members of the testor. 
In my case, I have a usufruct giving me the right to remain on the land until I die, and in my wife's will everything on the land (buildings, vehicles, any made-made structures, 'chattel' and personal possession of my wife belongs to me while the ownership of the land passes to my step-son.  In the will all other family members other than my step son are explicitly excluded from any inheritance.  We have sat down with her son and our daughter-in-law and have discussed this.  I help raise her kid from the age of 14, I put him through school and and have treated him like my son.  We have a good father-son relationship.  And I have our attorney retained in case anything happens to my wife and he'll represent me in probate, and if need be, will take action against any extended family who for some reason come out of the woodwork and state they have some claim to her assets, which nobody does.
That's the way it should be done.  I know, so few people want to address that fact that we all eventually die, so they put activities like creating a usufruct and a will off until it's too late. 
So the important lesson here is - don't wait!  If you are like the Op and have not done this - do it as soon as possible.

Op, get a lawyer asap who can represent you in probate and protect your interests. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by connda

[Small Joke]

Pin this Topic!  

Then put up giant posters with a link to it in every airport arrivals and baggage claim area.

Sure this happens everywhere, and in most families where succession is not planned and documented in advance.  

But everywhere don't have Thai 'justice' to sort out the mess. 

That's  why all expats should invest in junk bonds before property of any description here. 

Chok dee. 

[jippytum]

When married to a Thai Lady who dies the husband is entitled to the property in her name .If the foreign person is not qualified to own the land or property of the deceased's estate the law allows twelve months in order for the foreign person and legal spouse to dispose of the property .

[connda]

9 minutes ago, jippytum said:

When married to a Thai Lady who dies the husband is entitled to the property in her name .If the foreign person is not qualified to own the land or property of the deceased's estate the law allows twelve months in order for the foreign person and legal spouse to dispose of the property .

It's not as simple as that and as the Op states, there is a contest for assets.  It will only get sorted out properly in front of a probate court, and the Op needs a qualified attorney to represent his interests in front of a probate judge.  I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon that no foreigner will get a fair judgment in Thai court.  But without legal representation and a game plan that includes addressing claims in front of a probate court, the Op and those like him are simply asking for problems. And having not prepared for the eventuality of his wifes death, his interests are going to be dictated by Thai probate law as opposed to being clearing defined in a last will and testament. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by connda

[Vacuum]

9 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

As the saying goes "Be prepared to lose weight when you come to Thailand" Because more than likely you are going to be a lot lighter in your pockets when you eventually have to leave. 

 

A: I lost weight in Thailand B: Wow, how much did you lose? A: 100,000 and a house. 

As the saying goes, never invest more than you can afford to lose.

[Vacuum]

9 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

As the saying goes "Be prepared to lose weight when you come to Thailand" Because more than likely you are going to be a lot lighter in your pockets when you eventually have to leave. 

 

A: I lost weight in Thailand B: Wow, how much did you lose? A: 100,000 and a house. 

As the saying goes, never invest more than you can afford to lose.

[Autonuaq]

I do hope you registered that you may use the land and properties on it untill the day you decide it not to usr or die. 

 

Thus supposed to be done at the land office and registered on the land plot(s).

Costs now 300 thb in the past less or even free to register.

 

This was and is the way to make able to stay and also makes the plot worthless for thai.

 

The 50/50 is resonable and probably told to them by a lawyer.

 

In most western countries father get 50% and the children the rest if your are cut out by the last will.

Or father get 50% and the other 50% is devided by father and the children.

In general the last will will ask the childeren to respect the request to let all as it is abd wait till father dies before selling.

 

Personaly in this situation.

You invested and long time ago.

The plot and the house on it will have

More value then the sum invested with intrest.

 

Sell the place and keep a good relation with the children.

 

Just tell them 50/50 is not coreect in your eyes and it should be

50% for you.

Ahd the other 50% should be devidee by the children and you.

They will understsnd that. Or have a letter or last will which makes that they can tell you that you where excluded by your fromer wife.

 

Also take note what was before marriage is excluded of the part you have to share and is added to you if you can proof this with documents.

like a car you had before marriage and is replaced during marriage this  then car is then  excluded if all is well documented.

Doubt this is the case in your case.

 

Bewise take the 50% that is locked up.

Discuse the part you under normal circumstances have in the other 50%.

 

Basee in what you wrotr to me he children seem to be reasonable and froget this share of you.

 

Lots of wisdom and good luck.

 

[gunderhill]

3 hours ago, Expatthailover said:

I realise thai bashing is a popular passtime

Not as popular as those telling us so though.

[Hans Rayong]

Has a similar case on my table. First you get half because you were married. Then you'll get half the half in heritage. Total 75%. Provided you have not signed a document that says otherwise.

[harrry]

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Well it appears to me that you are still living in this house for free, and have all the rights for use of this land. Under Thai Law you are not allowed to own this property. Without a Will, or a simular document registered at Land Title, like a Usufruct, after one year you have no rights to it at all, and could find yourself out on the street with nothing. 

 

It also appears to me that if you and your wife owned this house for the last 25 years, then these kids must have grew up in that house to. There may be a lot of sentimental value attached to this house, and memories of there mother for the kids, that you are not seeing here, and perhaps why they don't want to sell this property. I think one of the most difficult things I would have to do right now, is drive past my Parents House in which I grew up in, who passed on, knowing it was sold and belongs to somebody else now.

 

It seems to me your motivation to sell this house is strickly for money, where the kids motivation may be different. If it s for money to then it only makes sense to wait it out until you pass on, and they would get 100% and not 50%. I know I would if I was younger.    

Even without a will if he is the lawul spouse he is entitled to 50% of the wife's property.  Land cannot be owned but must be sold.  Generally within a year.

[Sprigger]

Getting married and involved with Thais you deserve all you get. Pay some local little shit 20 baht to burn it down then move on. You’ll never get the land though. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Sprigger said:

Getting married and involved with Thais you deserve all you get. Pay some local little shit 20 baht to burn it down then move on. You’ll never get the land though. 

Tell us about your experience...?

[Vacuum]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Tell us about your experience...

He doesn't have any....

[Oxx]

Another factor is whether the OP was legally married, or whether he just went through some sort of village ceremony.