Feeling happier

[Golden Triangle]

For quite a while now I have been very unhappy with the level of alcohol I have been consuming, I have been a heavy drinker since my early army days back in the 70's in Germany, it has also interfered with my work in the past, which wasn't a clever move when one worked for a police organisation and have been taken home by a police officer because I reeked of alcohol on an early turn at work !! Luckily I kept my job, I have also been through a rehab process many years ago which was successful to a certain degree.

 

I have been living in Thailand for a number of years now and due to the relative cheapness of alcohol and my social circle I have been drinking far more than is good for me my body and my mental well being, I drink with friends and also drink at home, my normal daily consumption would be around 8 - 10 large Leo's followed at home by a couple more large beers and then a few red wines and maybe a G n T or 2, this would normally commence around 3 pm and continue until bedtime, around 11 or 12 pm .

 

If I had not had a drink by say 3.30 pm I would start to feel a little edgy, not a nice feeling I can assure you and as soon as I could I would down a couple of large beers pretty sharpish to quell the feeling and that is how it has been for the last 5+ years except for one night in hospital after an emergency operation on a hernia, a pretty sad state of affairs if I am honest with myself.

 

Last week I came across a post in this very forum by member Don Chance, he was telling members about a drug called Baclofen, I checked this drug out, read everything on the website posted by a Dr at a Perth hospital who is running trials/prescribing this drug to her patients. I was impressed by the claims, this drug is available at Fascino pharmacies at 220 Baht for a blister pack of 10 X 10 Mg tablets over the counter..

 

I followed the plan available on the website and have been taking it for 8 days now, the 1st four & a half days were only on a 5 Mg 1/2 tablet,and I continued to drink relatively normally as you are allowed to do, so the past 2 1/2 days have been 3 X 10 Mg tablets, one at 10.00 am, one at 1400 hrs & one at 1800 hrs, today, the first time in a long time, I have been able to resist having a beer at 1500 hrs, I actually managed to get to 1900 hrs and having checked the time just now I see it is 2040 hrs and I am only 1/2 way through my 2nd bottle of beer. So yes I am extremely happy at this, I will continue with the treatment, and after a couple more days I will if necessary increase the dosage to 15 Mg X 3 a day and see if it removes entirely the need to drink, it is possible to increase the dose further but you have to do it slowly to minimise the side effects that are well documented on the website, slow but sure is the way to go with this.

 

So, if you have a family member, friend, colleague or just someone you care about and you know that they know that they are struggling with alcohol, point them in the direction of Baclofen, if they are serious about their problem they will thank you at the end of the day, I have just started on this long journey, but I am determined to continue, even if I only seriously reduce my intake I will be a happy chappy and so will my GF who has put up with my drinking for a long while now, I'm not nasty, I'm not aggressive I just drink to much too often, I had a blood test recently, some of the results were frightening and when I researched each separate result on the internet the 1st reason given for that particularly bad result was alcohol, too much alcohol.

 

So there you have it people,  give it a whirl, I will add that I have no affiliation to the drug, the manufacturers or the hospital, I just feel fortunate to have found what so far has  proved to have been a very favorable tool to helping in my 'addiction'.   

[seasia]

Hello Golden Triangle

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I also saw  Baclofen mentioned on a thread here, have been doing some research since.

It has a lot of good reviews and I am probably going to try it, local pharmacy didn`t even know of it and tried to sell me ibuprofen. LOL

 

There is a Fascino branch not far so will head there.

 

May I ask if you feel you have had any side effects from it ?

Dry mouth/tongue seems to be reported, that wouldn`t bother me.

Drowsiness also seems to be reported, have you had that ?

 

Thanks and also Well Done & Good Luck going forward.

[Golden Triangle]

29 minutes ago, seasia said:

Hello Golden Triangle

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I also saw  Baclofen mentioned on a thread here, have been doing some research since.

It has a lot of good reviews and I am probably going to try it, local pharmacy didn`t even know of it and tried to sell me ibuprofen. LOL

 

There is a Fascino branch not far so will head there.

 

May I ask if you feel you have had any side effects from it ?

Dry mouth/tongue seems to be reported, that wouldn`t bother me.

Drowsiness also seems to be reported, have you had that ?

 

Thanks and also Well Done & Good Luck going forward.

Thanks for your good wishes, I have not noticed the side effects although as you say they are well documented, I have taken it slowly and built up to the 10 Mg slowly over a few days, follow the plan shown on the site IE: 1/2 a tab 3 x a day for 3.5 days then move onto the 10 Mg dose.

 

I asked my Mrs to get it for me, she tried the local pharmacy but they didn't have either, she went to Facino and they have it, Pattaya Nua, I didn't tell my Mrs what it was for in case she couldn't get it, but when she found out that Facino have it she asked them what it was for and they told her ?

 

Yesterday was a social day for me so I was out with friends at my local so had a few more beers than I should, but not excessive, if you know what I mean, today and tomorrow are days I stay at home and so far today, now it is 21.25 hrs, I have only had 2 large beers and 2 small glasses of wine, a result for me 

 

Good luck on your adventure my friend ?

[Golden Triangle]

15 hours ago, seasia said:

Hello Golden Triangle

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I also saw  Baclofen mentioned on a thread here, have been doing some research since.

It has a lot of good reviews and I am probably going to try it, local pharmacy didn`t even know of it and tried to sell me ibuprofen. LOL

 

There is a Fascino branch not far so will head there.

 

May I ask if you feel you have had any side effects from it ?

Dry mouth/tongue seems to be reported, that wouldn`t bother me.

Drowsiness also seems to be reported, have you had that ?

 

Thanks and also Well Done & Good Luck going forward.

Hi seasia, I forgot to say in my last post please let me know how you get on, you didn't say how much or what you drink and I'd be interested (read nosey LOL) on what sort of withdrawal you experience if you don't have a drink, good luck with the Baclofen 

[seasia]

2 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Hi seasia, I forgot to say in my last post please let me know how you get on, you didn't say how much or what you drink and I'd be interested (read nosey LOL) on what sort of withdrawal you experience if you don't have a drink, good luck with the Baclofen 

Hi Golden Triangle.

 

For sure.

 

I`ve a thread running in this section.

Had some excellent answers/suggestions there as well as a couple of the inevitable snipes.

 

My drinking quantity increased this year, which is what prompted me to find ways to reduce.

I drink beer, between 8 to 12 X 320ml  per day. ( 5 % proof, don`t touch the stronger beers.)

No spirits, none this year..

I do like a glass of wine with a meal but  halted that 2 or 3 months ago.

 

Reduced beer consumption slightly in the past week.

 

The higher end of my consumption usually on weekends, mostly social.

Pleasant day yesterday, total of 8 x 320 ml, so equivalent to 4 large bottles.

 

Some might regard that as too high I guess.

 

I am going to start with baclofen this Saturday, following the  Aus. website instructions.

 

Already started taking vitamin B complex.

I also drink plenty of water.

 

I am looking to reduce alcohol intake, in time.

 

I feel fairly confident I will succeed.

 

Thanks and again Good Luck with your own regime.

 

[chicowoodduck]

Always nice to hear about folks getting off of the piss.....Wish you good luck with your adventure and smooth sailing....????

[dotpoom]

I understand better how the Russia thing worked now.

[impulse]

Best of luck to you.  I'm in support of whatever works.  For me, it was AA, 29 years ago.  But there are certainly other options, many of which weren't even available back then.

 

My concern is what you plan to do to replace the alcohol in your life?  It's one thing to quit drinking.  It's another thing to be happy about it.  The euphoria of success may tide you over for a while.  Some, longer than others. 

 

But I'd suggest you find something to fill the void you'll have now that it's not a good idea to hang out in the same places, or with some of the same people, many of whom will try to pull you back into the lifestyle.

 

 

[SpeakeasyThai]

You're replacing one drug with another from the sounds of it.

[Upimongo]

Great news Golden Triangle!! I wish you have a successful detox. I hope you are able to engage with a support network, as there will be times when the urge to drink will become intense at times.  You could utilise YouTube, and watch others going through a similar experience, also see the positive effects on your body each day you stop drinking.

 

Thankyou for sharing your experience and Good Luck!

[Farangdanny]

I have given up alcohol three times, once for nine months, it was easy.  but then I can't sleep. It's horrible tossing and turning all not.  Sleeping Pills available at pharmacy don't really work. So I drink to sleep.

[baansgr]

Good luck, keep strong and positive, excersise is also helpful when giving up... Even a 15 minute walk to start with... 

[sawadee1947]

That is one of the most stupid threads here.

An advice to use drugs!

Mate, you are an addict to alcohol, your body, especially your kidneys and liver are damaged......and now you are taking another drug, which will have side affects when drinking alcohol.

In addition you are taking drugs without being under supervising of a qualified Doctor.

Or you believe everything what Dr. Google tells you?

After a long time of alcohol abuse the brain doesn't work properly.

[BigT73]

29 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

That is one of the most stupid threads here.

An advice to use drugs!

Mate, you are an addict to alcohol, your body, especially your kidneys and liver are damaged......and now you are taking another drug, which will have side affects when drinking alcohol.

In addition you are taking drugs without being under supervising of a qualified Doctor.

Or you believe everything what Dr. Google tells you?

After a long time of alcohol abuse the brain doesn't work properly.

After reading your negative reply I thought I would google it,  its description is a muscle relaxant and antispastic, I think you should try it too may help.

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

After reading your negative reply I thought I would google it,  its description is a muscle relaxant and antispastic, I think you should try it too may help.

Thank you Dr. Google! Of course you can take medicines like smarties.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/2/2018 at 8:47 PM, seasia said:

Hello Golden Triangle

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I also saw  Baclofen mentioned on a thread here, have been doing some research since.

It has a lot of good reviews and I am probably going to try it, local pharmacy didn`t even know of it and tried to sell me ibuprofen. LOL

 

There is a Fascino branch not far so will head there.

 

May I ask if you feel you have had any side effects from it ?

Dry mouth/tongue seems to be reported, that wouldn`t bother me.

Drowsiness also seems to be reported, have you had that ?

 

Thanks and also Well Done & Good Luck going forward.

Yes, good luck to both you and the OP.

[fvw53]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

That is one of the most stupid threads here.

An advice to use drugs!

Mate, you are an addict to alcohol, your body, especially your kidneys and liver are damaged......and now you are taking another drug, which will have side affects when drinking alcohol.

In addition you are taking drugs without being under supervising of a qualified Doctor.

Or you believe everything what Dr. Google tells you?

After a long time of alcohol abuse the brain doesn't work properly.

Thanks Sawadee 1947 ....I was wondering if really nobody on TVF would warn against self medication for alcoholism.....

[Enoon]

54 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

After reading your negative reply I thought I would google it,  its description is a muscle relaxant and antispastic, I think you should try it too may help.

Baclofen - Wikipedia

"Discontinuation of baclofen can be associated with a withdrawal syndrome which resembles benzodiazepine withdrawal and alcohol withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms are more likely if baclofen is used for long periods of time (more than a couple of months) and can occur from low or high doses. The severity of baclofen withdrawal depends on the rate at which it is discontinued. Thus to minimise withdrawal symptoms, the dose should be tapered down slowly when discontinuing baclofen therapy. Abrupt withdrawal is more likely to result in severe withdrawal symptoms. Acute withdrawal symptoms can be stopped by recommencing baclofen"

 

 

[atyclb]

How to use Baclofen

Take this medication by mouth with or without food as directed by your doctor, usually 3 times a day. To reduce your risk of side effects, your doctor may direct you to start this medication at a low dose and gradually increase your dose. Follow your doctor's instructions carefully.

The dosage is based on your medical condition and response to treatment. Do not increase your dose or take it more often than prescribed.

Use this medication regularly to get the most benefit from it. To help you remember, take it at the same times each day. Do not stop taking this medication without consulting your doctor. Some conditions may become worse when this drug is suddenly stopped. Also, you may experience withdrawal symptoms such as hallucinations and seizures. To prevent withdrawal reactions, your doctor may reduce your dose gradually. Consult your doctor or pharmacist for more details, and report any withdrawal reactions right away.

[impulse]

6 hours ago, fvw53 said:

Thanks Sawadee 1947 ....I was wondering if really nobody on TVF would warn against self medication for alcoholism.....

 

Walk into any AA meeting around the world, and they'll offer you some caffeine and probably a nicotine stick.  It's swapping one addiction for another.  But the nature of alcoholism doesn't preclude an alkie from taking caffeine or nicotine if that calms us down while we're fighting the urge to pick up a drink.  The booze is causing problems in our life.  The cigs and the coffee aren't.  And unlike the booze, the cigs and the coffee and the Baclofen won't kill us or get us fired or drive our families away.    We can always quit them later if they're causing problems in our lives.

 

Would the OP be better off pursuing the treatment under the care of a qualified doctor?  Sure.  But given that the treatment is fairly new and being developed overseas, he'll probably be dead before it's available in mainstream Thai health care.  

 

Besides, it beats the predominant self medication for alcoholism.  Another drink.  Baclofen may be evil.  I don't know, and apparently there isn't any long term data.  But unless it screws up our driving ability, it's the lesser evil.

 

[seasia]

Sorry but some very poor posts here.

 

Baclofen has been in existence for more than 50 years, albeit as a drug to treat other conditions and only in recent times has it been considered  a possible help in reducing or stopping alcohol consumption.

 

It is the no.1 drug in France for those trying to steer away from alcohol.

France one of the top rated countries in the world for healthcare.

 

Very comprehensive study from Australia also

 

 

https://baclofentreatment.com/

 

 

I am amazed some of the posts made have been allowed to stand.

 

I thought this section was supposed to be supportive and abuse free.

 

How wrong was I ?

[Golden Triangle]

Thanks to all those with their positive thoughts & good wishes, to those of you that haven't bothered to investigate any further than the ends of your noses, shame on you.

 

I managed to stop smoking 18 months ago with the assistance of Nicotine patches & chewing gum, using the same drug to wean me off my addiction, you people are shallow and small minded.

 

I would say more but I don't want this response removed, so until you have done the research that I and others have done please keep your bigoted responses to yourself, as seasia said this forum is supposed to be flame free but is far from it.

[Golden Triangle]

12 hours ago, Farangdanny said:

I have given up alcohol three times, once for nine months, it was easy.  but then I can't sleep. It's horrible tossing and turning all not.  Sleeping Pills available at pharmacy don't really work. So I drink to sleep.

Try Baclofen my friend, I had to drink to sleep as well, you see from my OP the amount I used to consume, today was a social day for me, I had 3 beers in the bar, at home I had a small wine that lasted at least an hour, my consumption has come right down and I now sleep well. Good luck 

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

 "shame on you."

" you people are shallow and small minded."

 

"this forum is supposed to be flame free but is far from it."

............as you quite clearly demonstrated 

[geriatrickid]

This is an extremely dangerous thread. Dangerous because of the misinformation and false sense of hope provided. Baclofen is NOT recommended for the treatment of alcohol dependency. It can kill the alcoholics who use it.  There is no  clinical evidence to support its usefulness. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary.

 

Let's deal with the facts;

 

Baclofen is not a miracle drug and the  use of the drug as part of a therapy regimen for alcohol addiction  is "off label". Off label, means that the drug use is not approved for the condition. It is not  approved because there is inadequate data to support its use. This means that the benefit of the drug has not been proven in clinical trials. It also means that the side effects could harm some patients.

 

Desperate people will try anything to treat a condition and the use of Baclofen speaks to that. 

In 2008 a French cardiologist Olivier Ameisen said he used the drug to treat his alcoholism. And from there ladies and gentleman is how Baclofen grew feet and soon was touted as the next miracle cure.

 

A cynic might claim that  some drug companies were delighted that an long existing drug could see its profit margin reinvigorated and were delighted to help fund the two clinical trials, that suggested baclofen might be of some assistance. (The trials were not conclusive.)

 

There were other studies that suggested the drug had some benefit for some patients. However, the clinical evidence was not there such that it could support a change in the approved product use. 

A typical study was Renaud de Beaurepaire's article in Front Psychiatry: Suppression of Alcohol Dependence Using Baclofen: A 2-Year Observational Study of 100 Patients (Citation: Front Psychiatry. 2012; 3: 103).  On the surface, the results suggested it helped and people pounced on the positive news. A miracle cure was to be had. Salvation was at hand.  And then some pharmacologists who have a cautious approach to drug recycling, realized that the study had some weaknesses. This specific study recruited 100 patients with alcohol dependence, resistant to usual treatments. They were treated with  with escalating doses of baclofen  Alcohol consumption  and craving for alcohol were assessed before treatment and at 3, 6, 12, and 24 months. Assessments were simply based on patients’ own reports. No empirical data, no actual physical assessments, just the patient's  personal statements.

 

Reference is made to this therapy is embraced in France. Wrong. In 2017, The French  national drug agency warned that the  recommended use of high-dose baclofen is associated with an increased risk of hospitalization and death compared to other existing licensed drug treatments for alcohol dependence.  Citation: https://ansm.sante.fr/S-informer/Communiques-Communiques-Points-presse/Resultats-de-l-etude-sur-les-usages-et-la-securite-du-baclofene-en-France-entre-2009-et-2015-Communique

 

 The bubble was burst with the British Medical Journal's report that Baclofen was ineffective in itself as a treatment for alcohol dependency. (Citation 26 February 2018: BMJ 2018;360:k930

The researchers reviewed all of the existing Baclofen studies (called a meta-analysis) and concluded  that baclofen was no more effective than placebo on a range of key outcome measures, suggesting that the current increasing use of baclofen as a treatment for alcohol use disorders is premature.

  

Please do not self medicate.

[seasia]

On 9/4/2018 at 6:27 AM, baansgr said:

Good luck, keep strong and positive, excersise is also helpful when giving up... Even a 15 minute walk to start with... 

Hello

 

Your post has helped me, thanks.

 

I live in a very convenient location, most all I need very nearby, 4 X 24/7 hr. shops less than a minute stroll away, ATM, coffee shops etc  plenty.. I had almost forgotten about walking.

 

Saturdays were probably my biggest day for drinking.

 

A couple of weeks back, decided to do some walking, looking around, couple of friends tagged along.

Total of about 3 hours  with breaks, not walking non stop.

 

Really enjoyed it.

Felt better and happier.

 

I did the same Saturday just gone, increased to about 4 hours, again, not non stop and gentle.

Tiring but felt good.

 

Yes had some beer when finished but achieved a good reduction in what I would usually have been drinking.

Slept better as well.

 

Already looking forward to more walking.

 

Thanks again.

[baansgr]

19 hours ago, seasia said:

Hello

 

Your post has helped me, thanks.

 

I live in a very convenient location, most all I need very nearby, 4 X 24/7 hr. shops less than a minute stroll away, ATM, coffee shops etc  plenty.. I had almost forgotten about walking.

 

Saturdays were probably my biggest day for drinking.

 

A couple of weeks back, decided to do some walking, looking around, couple of friends tagged along.

Total of about 3 hours  with breaks, not walking non stop.

 

Really enjoyed it.

Felt better and happier.

 

I did the same Saturday just gone, increased to about 4 hours, again, not non stop and gentle.

Tiring but felt good.

 

Yes had some beer when finished but achieved a good reduction in what I would usually have been drinking.

Slept better as well.

 

Already looking forward to more walking.

 

Thanks again.

That's great,  keep it up,  you probably  feeling a lot better already. 

[Wilson Smith]

On 9/5/2018 at 12:40 AM, Golden Triangle said:

Thanks to all those with their positive thoughts & good wishes, to those of you that haven't bothered to investigate any further than the ends of your noses, shame on you.

 

I managed to stop smoking 18 months ago with the assistance of Nicotine patches & chewing gum, using the same drug to wean me off my addiction, you people are shallow and small minded.

 

I would say more but I don't want this response removed, so until you have done the research that I and others have done please keep your bigoted responses to yourself, as seasia said this forum is supposed to be flame free but is far from it.

Hello Golden,

 

I used to drink to much and now I have stopped. Since I have stopped I seem to be happier with other areas of my life. If you ever want to meet for coffee I would happy to share with my experience. 

 

All the best! 

[Neeranam]

I used diazepam for years to help me drink less, however I started to build a dependence to this drug, taking up to 200 mg a day.

Coming off was 1000 times worse than coming of alcohol, or any other drug I know.

 

Baclofen sounds similar to this drug. 

 

You say that drinking with this drug is allowed,  by whom?

 

In my experience, this is not the way to give up alcohol.

 

Another drug that did seem to work was Naltrexone.

However this isn't a HAPPY pill.

 

 

 

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

On 9/4/2018 at 11:32 AM, SpeakeasyThai said:

You're replacing one drug with another from the sounds of it.

So, you don't agree with taking methadone to help heroine addicts, or take Champix / Zyban to quit smoking.

 

Sometimes, substituting a benign drug in place of a harmful drug is the way to go. Isn't that obvious? S'pose not.