Can a landlord dispute affect your visa?

[Ks45672]

I have a friend who went back to the UK and fighting with Thai landlord because the landlord is saying the deposit (100k) isn't enough to pay for whatever he wants to repair 

 

He is asking for more money (100+125k) to redecorate and replace a scratch floor etc or he will make a police report for criminal damage and other issues and get him arrested etc 

 

Is this even possible the Thai police gets involved or is the landlord just trying to milk the farang for as much as he can? 

[Maestro]

Yes, it is possible, judging from what I have seen happening in Thailand.

[BestB]

Possible if your friend is not here to dispute it. However just filing the police report does not do much, unless criminal case is opened. Friend would be asked to attend police station first. However if he could not be contacted its hard to say how things may turn out IF landlord knows police.

 

From personal experience of similar kind, TWICE, nothing happened.

 

First time, landlord had his police "mates", i had my lawyer who asked them how this was criminal or police matter this resulted in police quickly going  away.

 

Second time, landlord threatened to go legal, police was not interested in civil matter.

 

His lawyer sent letter of demand, i responded with my letter of demand for damages caused by landlord negligence, it all ended there, with no follow up.

 

Your friend can try this, and it i think it may stop the headache.

 

In writing, ask landlord to provide proper quotes from proper companies with VAT numbers, basically detailed quotations as you would in the West

 

Ask for receipts for every month he had paid rent

 

Ask for tax payment receipts, sure landlord does not need to show it, but more than likely landlord never paid any taxes on rented property and this would indicate how much trouble he/she would be in, should he/she continue.

 

Should it all go down south, your friend will have written correspondence showing evidence he/she did not refuse to pay but asked for proper documentation, which he/she is entitled to by law.

[Ks45672]

I don't know how landlord have calculated the amount but it seems a lot of money for  damage that was so minor the landlords agent didn't even notice it when giving the keys back.... 

 

Also  there is a huge difference in the price of flooring per sqm so the landlord can quote the top of the range stuff etc if he wants to improve the place regardless of what actually happens... 

 

 

Happened me years ago as well

 

They claimed there was a ring from a coffee cup on a mattress, a month after the inspection he called my xgf  and asked for 10k from the farang (me) to buy a new mattress or he will tell his police friends and make a big trouble ... ???? 

 

He isn't here to bargain and flying back isn't an option yet either

 

I suppose the only danger is being arrested when your plane lands and held in some dungeon until the court date 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Ks45672

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

Is this even possible the Thai police gets involved or is the landlord just trying to milk the farang for as much as he can? 

Yes, but this sounds more like a civil than criminal matter. I doubt the police would or could prosecute a dispute as described.

 

Thais often threaten foreigners with the police to extract money. 

[BestB]

33 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

I don't know how landlord have calculated the amount but it seems a lot of money for  damage that was so minor the landlords agent didn't even notice it when giving the keys back.... 

 

Also  there is a huge difference in the price of flooring per sqm so the landlord can quote the top of the range stuff etc if he wants to improve the place regardless of what actually happens... 

 

 

Happened me years ago as well

 

They claimed there was a ring from a coffee cup on a mattress, a month after the inspection he called my xgf  and asked for 10k from the farang (me) to buy a new mattress or he will tell his police friends and make a big trouble ... ???? 

 

He isn't here to bargain and flying back isn't an option yet either

 

I suppose the only danger is being arrested when your plane lands and held in some dungeon until the court date 

 

 

And that is precisely why he asks for proper quotations in writing . Not only almost impossible to get but a perfect defence if he was to be arrested????.

 

saying that , if property was handed over with no demands and papers signed, landlord can not do anything after the fact 

[Ks45672]

4 minutes ago, BestB said:

And that is precisely why he asks for proper quotations in writing . Not only almost impossible to get but a perfect defence if he was to be arrested????.

 

saying that , if property was handed over with no demands and papers signed, landlord can not do anything after the fact 

 

I have just got off the phone so now I know  what happened 

 

The original contract (now  lost he thinks) said they will tally up the utility bills and anything that needs to be paid will be subtracted from the deposit and returned to him by bank transfer in 14-30 days after moving out

 

The landlord was abroad and couldn't attend  so the keys were returned to his property agent without anyone having to sign anything 

 

Landlord saying  will be 200k+ or maybe more and he's willing to settle for another 125k and pay the rest himself....???? 

 

Asking for itemised quotations is a good idea but I think it's very open to abuse because he can get any quote from his friend somchai the builder for 200-300k and make himself look like the generous guy....

 

[humbug]

i agree with the earlier poster who mentioned that police involvement is a theeat to win the cash and puts a seed of doubt in your mind. Thats all it is but that doubt wins most times as we read and know about horror stories

 

Itemised bill is good and your friend can do the same and seek costs of replacement items to dispute over pricing. 

 

There is also the involvement of the ombudsman that a thai used recently in her dispute with a landlord that was in the last week on thai visa news feed.The ombudsman office is at Charng Wattana building same as immigration

 

Ask your friend to document everything from rent pay to photographs of damage the landlord is disputing. That way they cant be any grey areas. Also put the landlord on the back foot with tax id etc as another poster mentioned.

 

This happened to me 12 years ago.The Landlord through the manager wanted 100,000 baht in damage when i left, in fact the damage was around 12,000 as i documented same products to be replaced in the shops. They still tried to negotiate 28,000 but in the end they conceded and i had a repair guy fix with replaced items for 12,000.

 

A US embassy family in the next room were asked for 1 million baht as the land lord knew the Embassy would be paying so just ranked up the price when they left. I never found out how much the Embassy paid in the end but i doubt it was what the landlord wanted

 

 

 

[BestB]

8 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

 

I have just got off the phone so now I know  what happened 

 

The original contract (now  lost he thinks) said they will tally up the utility bills and anything that needs to be paid will be subtracted from the deposit and returned to him by bank transfer in 14-30 days after moving out

 

The landlord was abroad and couldn't attend  so the keys were returned to his property agent without anyone having to sign anything 

 

Landlord saying  will be 200k+ or maybe more and he's willing to settle for another 125k and pay the rest himself....???? 

 

Asking for itemised quotations is a good idea but I think it's very open to abuse because he can get any quote from his friend somchai the builder for 200-300k and make himself look like the generous guy....

 

Land lord being overseas is landlords problem . His authorised agent acted on landlord behalf . Whatever issues landlord has, now has to take it up with the agent.

 

about itemised bill, you missed the point , proper itemised bill with company name , addesss and VAT number .

 

You will find proper company’s will be very hesitant to give fake quotes 

[RickTik]

You must not understand how the mafia works.

The bottom line?

EVERYTHING can affect your visa.

[PoorSucker]

Here's an article about a man stuck in Thailand for three years because of a landlord dispute. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-21917654

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, BestB said:

Possible if your friend is not here to dispute it. However just filing the police report does not do much, unless criminal case is opened. Friend would be asked to attend police station first. However if he could not be contacted its hard to say how things may turn out IF landlord knows police.

 

From personal experience of similar kind, TWICE, nothing happened.

 

First time, landlord had his police "mates", i had my lawyer who asked them how this was criminal or police matter this resulted in police quickly going  away.

 

Second time, landlord threatened to go legal, police was not interested in civil matter.

 

His lawyer sent letter of demand, i responded with my letter of demand for damages caused by landlord negligence, it all ended there, with no follow up.

 

Your friend can try this, and it i think it may stop the headache.

 

In writing, ask landlord to provide proper quotes from proper companies with VAT numbers, basically detailed quotations as you would in the West

 

Ask for receipts for every month he had paid rent

 

Ask for tax payment receipts, sure landlord does not need to show it, but more than likely landlord never paid any taxes on rented property and this would indicate how much trouble he/she would be in, should he/she continue.

 

Should it all go down south, your friend will have written correspondence showing evidence he/she did not refuse to pay but asked for proper documentation, which he/she is entitled to by law.

 

Hmm the laws here certainly are different to the western world.

 

Personally I would argue that the scratches are fair wear and tear which is normal for wooden lacquered polished floorboards, that said, he couldn't really argue that they are damaged, in other words, polished timber or concrete floors do actually get scratched, and naturally a landlord would be liable for the maintenance of such, not the tenant.

 

 

[BestB]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Hmm the laws here certainly are different to the western world.

 

Personally I would argue that the scratches are fair wear and tear which is normal for wooden lacquered polished floorboards, that said, he couldn't really argue that they are damaged, in other words, polished timber or concrete floors do actually get scratched, and naturally a landlord would be liable for the maintenance of such, not the tenant.

 

 

 

Many landlords in Thailand do not understand concept of wear and tear and that includes foreigners who are landlords. My last landlord, Italian, wanted I pay for painting walls after having lived for 3.5 years. Previous one wanted to charge full price for a mattress after I lived there for 8 years.

[marqus12]

Quote

 

Whether the deposit was returned or not me and my girl always

block the landlord when we consider the case closed (for caution)
because sometimes the landlord wants to stay with us for longer than

we want. If something is damaged as a result of normal use,

I consider this to be a cost for the landlord ...just like in my country.

Besides, I always use my wife's ID card.

[Media1]

Have the damage appraised by a individual contracter immediately contact the landlord and do this as many ways as possible 1 phone text 2 email 3 and last phone call.

Tell him you are having a contractor quote price in any damage. If he refuses ignore all his request and keep his refusals. 

Your friend will not be blocked on entry

[Ks45672]

6 minutes ago, BestB said:

 

Many landlords in Thailand do not understand concept of wear and tear and that includes foreigners who are landlords. My last landlord, Italian, wanted I pay for painting walls after having lived for 3.5 years. Previous one wanted to charge full price for a mattress after I lived there for 8 years.

 

I've also had repainting cost deducted from the deposit... ???? 

 

In time I learned to think of the deposit as a nonrefundable gift to the landlord 

 

 Then if you get anything back it will feel like a bonus! 

 

[Ks45672]

37 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Have the damage appraised by a individual contracter immediately contact the landlord and do this as many ways as possible 1 phone text 2 email 3 and last phone call.

Tell him you are having a contractor quote price in any damage. If he refuses ignore all his request and keep his refusals. 

Your friend will not be blocked on entry

 

 now the landlord is the only one with the keys any repair  or quote will need his approval 

 

If tenant agrees to pay the invoices from the UK there is nothing stopping the landlord from upgrading his property at the tenants expense 

 

Not sure how they would replace "like with like" and agree on value if the old floor is 30yr old  vs brand new one.... 

 

No doubt the owner will prefer an expensive one if the tenant is paying for it 

 

 

 

 

[jimn]

If there is damage he should pay. Too many people are disrespectful of other peoples property. I doubt that the Thai landlord would be persuing him if he didnt feel he had a case

[merijn]

23 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

Is this even possible the Thai police gets involved or is the landlord just trying to milk the farang for as much as he can? 

 

Maybe if some under the table money is involved otherwise not, as police will say it is a civil case and nothing to do with police.

But landlords sometimes like to threaten with involving the police even they now it is not really possible.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post and a reply to it have been removed.