Minimum requirement for solar power plant in Thailand?

[DinoSabanovic]

So my question is what is the minimum size requirement for solar power plant? Could be 10 kilowatt, 100, 1000? 

My wife have land that is not used and I would like to know.

I have been searching but cannot find it.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Will you be running a steel factory, or a potting shed?

[DinoSabanovic]

10 hours ago, NilSS said:

Will you be running a steel factory, or a potting shed?

No, rocket launch pad. I need the power to offset the power bill.

[billd766]

Go back to the beginning of the year and look at your electricity bills.

 

Divide the number of units used by the number of days in the month and that should give you the number of units used daily on average.

 

That figure will be the kw/h you will need to supply daily.

 

IMHO you will need to add 50% to that to cover any expansions that may happen plus even in Thailand not every day is sunny and you will need a back up.

 

Next you will need to find the solar panels and what output they will give plus the battery back up to store the solar power.

 

Having got that far you can get a fair estimate of the cost remembering that both batteries and solar panels have a finite life.

 

When you have done the costing you need to divide the total cost with your yearly electric bills to see how many years it will take to pay off the investment before you get "free" electricity.

[Crossy]

You really need to talk to your local electricity authority, probably PEA.

 

IIRC anything below 10kW installed solar is treated as "domestic" and has relatively "simple" rules for connection and allowable equipment.

 

By inference, anything over 10kW installed solar is therefore "industrial" and has a whole raft of additional requirements to be met, mostly revolving around the need to disconnect the export if the grid goes down (island protection) and registration of the contractor.

 

Even small solar seems to be a regulatory pain in the butt here in sunny Thailand, do your homework carefully and get everything in writing. Don't expect to be getting fat on the profits ????

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

You really need to talk to your local electricity authority, probably PEA.

 

IIRC anything below 10kW installed solar is treated as "domestic" and has relatively "simple" rules for connection and allowable equipment.

 

By inference, anything over 10kW installed solar is therefore "industrial" and has a whole raft of additional requirements to be met, mostly revolving around the need to disconnect the export if the grid goes down (island protection) and registration of the contractor.

 

Even small solar seems to be a regulatory pain in the butt here in sunny Thailand, do your homework carefully and get everything in writing. Don't expect to be getting fat on the profits ????

 

 

Does that only apply IF you connect to the PEA system. Surely it would not apply to a system isolated from the main PEA network?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Does that only apply IF you connect to the PEA system. Surely it would not apply to a system isolated from the main PEA network?

Of course if you're totally off-grid there's no regulation. 

 

My interpretation of our OP is that he (his wife) wants to put something on some land that's currently redundant, I could be wrong.

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Of course if you're totally off-grid there's no regulation. 

 

My interpretation of our OP is that he (his wife) wants to put something on some land that's currently redundant, I could be wrong.

 

That is what I thought but no mention was made of a connection to the PEA.

 

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Next you will need to find the solar panels and what output they will give plus the battery back up to store the solar power.

No need for any of that, if you just want to 'ease' your electricity bill.

Grid Tie inverter (5kbht) + solar panel (5kbht) then just plug it into the nearest mains socket.

No limit on how many you plug in, no need to tell anyone (Shhhhhhh)

[DinoSabanovic]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

You really need to talk to your local electricity authority, probably PEA.

 

IIRC anything below 10kW installed solar is treated as "domestic" and has relatively "simple" rules for connection and allowable equipment.

 

By inference, anything over 10kW installed solar is therefore "industrial" and has a whole raft of additional requirements to be met, mostly revolving around the need to disconnect the export if the grid goes down (island protection) and registration of the contractor.

 

Even small solar seems to be a regulatory pain in the butt here in sunny Thailand, do your homework carefully and get everything in writing. Don't expect to be getting fat on the profits ????

 

Thanks for the answer. Yes, I wanted a info about real power plant not a domestic toy. About 50kW sounds reasonable in solar panel costs. Panel of 300W is roughly 5000 thb now. So 1 kW could be 4 panels minus the losses. That's 200 panels times 5000 thb each is 1.00.000 thb. Now depends for how much you sell. Good info.

[anon2736434]

Dont forget your ministry of commerce power plant operator license which basically shot down any chance of independent power production a few years ago when the gov. wanted to push renewable energy here. And of course the PEA really doesn't like competition like most state monopolies so dont expect much help from them getting up and running.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Arjen said:

200 * 5.000 = 100.000?

I think you mistake by factor 10......

Arjen.

And, that's a million just for the panels. You need to add all the installation and support structures for the panels and, of course, inverters and the necessary control gear that anything over 10kW is going to need.

 

I would be looking at a finger-in-the-air budget of > 3 million.

 

Also, consider ongoing costs of security to stop your expensive kit wandering off during the night.

 

[DinoSabanovic]

4 hours ago, Arjen said:

200 * 5.000 = 100.000?

 

I think you mistake by factor 10......

 

Arjen.

No, i just miss the zero when typing ????

[DinoSabanovic]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

And, that's a million just for the panels. You need to add all the installation and support structures for the panels and, of course, inverters and the necessary control gear that anything over 10kW is going to need.

 

I would be looking at a finger-in-the-air budget of > 3 million.

 

Also, consider ongoing costs of security to stop your expensive kit wandering off during the night.

 

True but I only wanted to know. Now I do and that's it. No need to write a book about it. Thanks again.

[billd766]

26 minutes ago, DinoSabanovic said:

True but I only wanted to know. Now I do and that's it. No need to write a book about it. Thanks again.

 

You got the advice from probably the most knowledgeable guy on Thai visa about electrics, (and one of the nicest).

[rbmcn]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

And, that's a million just for the panels. You need to add all the installation and support structures for the panels and, of course, inverters and the necessary control gear that anything over 10kW is going to need.

 

I would be looking at a finger-in-the-air budget of > 3 million.

 

Also, consider ongoing costs of security to stop your expensive kit wandering off during the night.

 

 

1 hour ago, DinoSabanovic said:

True but I only wanted to know. Now I do and that's it. No need to write a book about it. Thanks again.

Kit disappearing while you are gone for a weekend is a big problem depending on where you live.  Literally everything can go walkabout within a few hours.  

[xtrnuno41]

Here my neighbours have 16 panels on the roof, just for them. They might be using 4000 kwh/year, but might be different to Thailand, where no big power devices are running or often. Power consumers in household are coffee, washing, water boiling, fridge/freezer, machine, tv and computer and airco.    

But it depends on what panels you buy, the power they can deliver and you want them to deliver. There are panels up to 300 Wph. Of course a sun would do good to generate power.

Never the less the hotter a panel gets, the less power (efficiency goes down) it will generate. There is a negative influence from temperature.

You have mono and multicrystalline panels. You have panels more and less efficient, it is in the price. I thought the multi were doing better in warmer countries. Panels sold are 21% efficient, though i see they have now panels 40% efficiency, guess they will cost more. They are still improved.

You can have panels with each having their own micro power controller. Maybe wise to choose, as if one panel would not be or less working, it effects the overall efficiency. With the micro controller, you can observe each panel on his efficiency and as i wrote overall efficiency isnt effected by a bad working panel.

Also comes in handy when more or one panel gets into the shade or gets more dirty, it will effect overall efficiency without micro controller. OK power though will go down, as it is not (less) working. Cleaning from time to time the panels is also effective, depending on how dirty they can get in time

 

You want to make a power plant, so for whole village? It will cost you and you will have to connect to main power grid, is the power manufacturer happy with that? Of course the more power you want to deliver, the more panels, space you need. Also inverters are needed and the more power you make, the bigger they get, the more expensive.

In a documentary, it was even for an oil producing country !! , effective to make power by solar panels then by oil !! It costed less !! Even with higher temperature on panels(maybe controlled?)

[Muhendis]

Further information regarding income expectations from power generation. When I last spoke to PEA some six months ago the feed in tariff was 7 Baht/kwhr so a 50kw power plant could "generate" 350 Baht/hour. However it would be miraculous if you could do that for more than a few hours per day. Maximum power only comes when the suns rays are perpendicular to the panels. Also the 7 Baht/kwhr applies to domestic feed in. The commercial price may be different.

[English Engineer]

The rule of thumbs is that for each kw installed you will get an sverage of 4 kw h per day. A hybrid system can be a good solution to avoid problems with the PEA. They do not currently allow you to export power. The hybrid system will maintain power during a power outage and maintain a steady output voltage.

[scorecard]

On 9/30/2018 at 1:14 PM, Crossy said:

You really need to talk to your local electricity authority, probably PEA.

 

IIRC anything below 10kW installed solar is treated as "domestic" and has relatively "simple" rules for connection and allowable equipment.

 

By inference, anything over 10kW installed solar is therefore "industrial" and has a whole raft of additional requirements to be met, mostly revolving around the need to disconnect the export if the grid goes down (island protection) and registration of the contractor.

 

Even small solar seems to be a regulatory pain in the butt here in sunny Thailand, do your homework carefully and get everything in writing. Don't expect to be getting fat on the profits ????

 

 

Crossy, would generating 10KW per day be enough to supply say: lights in 7 rooms, ceiling fans in all the rooms but on and off as needed, 3 ACs running all night, 2 fridges, electric cook top and oven and micro-wave, rice cooker, water pump 4 bathrooms, 2 TVs?

 

Thanks.

[GoFaster]

Talk to these people

 

[Crossy]

12 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Crossy, would generating 10KW per day be enough to supply say: lights in 7 rooms, ceiling fans in all the rooms but on and off as needed, 3 ACs running all night, 2 fridges, electric cook top and oven and micro-wave, rice cooker, water pump 4 bathrooms, 2 TVs?

 

Thanks.

A 10kW system will generate about 10 X 5 =50 units per day, about 200 Baht!

 

So if the monthly power bill is about 200 x 30 = 6,000 Baht then you will reach equalibrium.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

A 10kW system will generate about 10 X 5 =50 units per day, about 200 Baht!

 

So if the monthly power bill is about 200 x 30 = 6,000 Baht then you will reach equalibrium.

 

Thank you.

 

Our monthly bill ranges from 2,500 to 5.000Baht.

 

I guess (happy for any corrections) the next points are:'

 

- Being in a location where there is professional technical support available (CM?) and panels, equipment, batteries.

 

- Getting a firm understanding of the initial investment costs.

 

Further, is it true that costs or all the equipment and batteries is steadily reducing and quality / life expectancy is steadily improving? 

 

 

 

[DinoSabanovic]

27 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Further, is it true that costs or all the equipment and batteries is steadily reducing and quality / life expectancy is steadily improving? 

 

Yes

[Formaleins]

6 hours ago, DinoSabanovic said:

No, i just miss the zero when typing ????

And that is probably the same answer you will get from PEA when they send you your monthly cheque for the power you supplied them.

Do you need a work permit for this? 

 

[DinoSabanovic]

1 minute ago, Formaleins said:

Do you need a work permit for this? 

 

 

No idea. If you have large townhouse with big roof, it would be a good idea. My friend have 2 large units, that's about 6 normal townhouses combined. Not sure how big is the roof but my guess it can fit 100 panels easy. She has a company and inside a factory.

[anon2736434]

The sad truth and I really like solar is that unless you are getting gov. subsidies/tax incentives or somewhere electricity is not available its not worth the investment. Panels and battery prices havent moved much for some time now.

[Muhendis]

11 minutes ago, Notagain said:

The sad truth and I really like solar is that unless you are getting gov. subsidies/tax incentives or somewhere electricity is not available its not worth the investment. Panels and battery prices havent moved much for some time now.

You are quite right up to a point. The electricity supply is subsidised by the government by quite a generous 50%. in other words the price is normally 8 Baht/unit but households only pay 4 Baht/unit. If you have a setup which has enough power for all your needs 24hrs/day then it will pay for itself in about 12 years at the non subsidised rate and 24 years at the subsidised rate. So if you are not in the government scheme you would be better off with your own power supply but if you are on government subsidised power then you would break even and feel good because you are a bit more green than others. Also you are not so likely to enjoy interruptions in power.

I can say this from experience because when I built my house some considerable distance from the last post in the village, I had to have a temporary/construction supply (non subsidised) and here I am 7 years later still with a temporary but unused supply entirely reliant on that big light in the sky.

[sfokevin]

Also you must consider that if you can’t connect to PEA and they allow your meter to spin backwards you will need to have a huge battery bank to store the power you make... Without one of these your panel can make huge amounts of electricity and if you don’t use it it is essential lost... 

 

for example suppose you you just finished making coffee and your AC has been running for an hour and the house has cooled down so it only is using the fan... you are sitting quietly in your living room reading your electricity consumption is 2-300 watts at that moment... And your Solar farm at the same moment is kicking out 10,000 watts... Where is that electricity going?... 

[khunPer]

30 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

If you have a setup which has enough power for all your needs 24hrs/day then it will pay for itself in about 12 years at the non subsidised rate and 24 years at the subsidised rate.

I calculated on a system when I builded my house, and at that time, 2010 it was, I came to 17 years for the system to pay back on normal (subsidized) household rate; however without maintenance and interest. At that time I didn't find solar panels attractive from an economical point of view.

 

Solar panels are cheaper now, or more efficient for same price-level, but taking maintenance into consideration, especially if using batteries, and the slowly decrease in panel efficiency over the years, the 20+ years for subsidized rate might well be it.