NZ customs can now demand phone or laptop passwords

[webfact]

NZ customs can now demand phone or laptop passwords

Changes to customs legislation now means passengers must hand over the password to their electronic devices if asked, or be slapped with a NZ$5,000 fine.

By Asha McLean

 

The New Zealand Customs Service this week received new powers at the country's borders, including the ability demand a password off a passenger to search their "electronic device".

 

Customs officers have always been able to search a passenger's laptop or phone, but the changes to the Customs and Excise Act 2018 now specifies that passengers must hand over their password.

 

The legislation [PDF] states that a customs officer now has the power to make a "full search of a stored value instrument", including power to "require a user of the instrument to provide access information and other information or assistance that is reasonable and necessary to allow a person to access the instrument".

 

Full story: https://www.zdnet.com/article/nz-customs-can-now-demand-phone-or-laptop-passwords/

 

-- ZDnet 2018-10-02

[Basil B]

Oh heck!!!

 

Have real problems remembering mine and I have also many applications that have obscure passwords that I would need to reset to use.

[from the home of CC]

been happening in North America for years.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

been happening in North America for years.

 

I don't think they can automatically fine you for not complying, though. Make life difficult - sure.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I don't think they can automatically fine you for not complying, though. Make life difficult - sure.

Common practice in spy-nation #1 the UK. Just a fine? They can actually imprison you until you tell your password. That’ll be fun rotting in a prison cell because there’s an old zip file on your computer from years ago and you can’t remember the password. 

 

I’m glad I don’t have to live in one of those big brother systems that treat civil rights like shit. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I don't think they can automatically fine you for not complying, though. Make life difficult - sure.

Much worse from what I have read (beat me if it's fake news):

device can be confiscated until you rethink.

device can be sent to forensic/agency lab trying to crack.

And probably even worse sanctions.

No waterboarding though.

[Guest]

Right. If I'd be a terrorist, I would make software for both laptop and phone, which emulates the password login / screen lock.

 

There are two different passwords:

1) To open the phone / laptop normally

2) To give for the customs. This option wipes out / rewrites the blocks which have sensitive material once the password has been given.

 

  Naturally the phone / laptop would open normally, once the sensitive files would have been hidden (fast) and later on deleted (takes time).

 

 

 

 

[CharlieH]

42 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Much worse from what I have read (beat me if it's fake news):

device can be confiscated until you rethink.

device can be sent to forensic/agency lab trying to crack.

And probably even worse sanctions.

No waterboarding though.

I was reliably informed that they can just "clone" it, dont need any password and take their sweet time about going through everything with their software and catch up with you later if anything is found.

If you happen to have anything with a  really strong encryption it then begs the question "why" you need it that strong etc. and they revisit you, in the meantime somewhere someone has an exact copy of everything you had and it wont be returned or even admitted they have it.

[SammyT]

I think it's worth pointing out that they probably aren't doing this to every tourist flying back from a couple of weeks in Pattaya. It'd be people who trigger off some of their alerts regarding drug smuggling or other organised crime that are probably going to get stopped. 

 

<deleted> they could look through my phone if they want. Be awkward as <deleted> while they flick through the nude pics that I get girls from Tinder to send me, but they won't find much else interesting. 

[VBF]

5 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I was reliably informed that they can just "clone" it, dont need any password and take their sweet time about going through everything with their software and catch up with you later if anything is found.

If you happen to have anything with a  really strong encryption it then begs the question "why" you need it that strong etc. and they revisit you, in the meantime somewhere someone has an exact copy of everything you had and it wont be returned or even admitted they did clone it.

With the right software (not easily available to the public), taking an image of a hard drive has always been possible. Once you have the image, if you know what you're doing, you can write it back to another drive and, as you say, can play with it in your own time. 

Even imaging software that IS available to the public can be used in that way - I "cloned" one laptop to another using free Macrium but there are a few snags to overcome which are easy for the knowledgeable.

 

HOWEVER...... if that was the procedure followed at Customs / Immigration the bad guy would still be away free before the authorities had the data. If they were a terrorist, damage may be done before the authorities had time to act. 

 

If they stop you at point of entry, and make you reveal all, they have you and your data in one place.

[KhunBENQ]

3 minutes ago, SammyT said:

Be awkward as <deleted> while they flick through the nude pics that I get girls from Tinder to send me, but they won't find much else interesting. 

Now convince them that they all were 18+ or you are in deep trouble.

3 minutes ago, SammyT said:

to every tourist flying back from a couple of weeks in Pattaya.

But single males returning from Thailand seem to be a popular target. Pedo hunt is taken serious.

Edited October 2, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[VBF]

2 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Now convince them that they all were 18+ or you are in deep trouble.

But single males returning from Thailand seem to be a popular target.

Often been stopped reentering UK but oddly, never asked to show my devices. If I had naked pictures they wouldn't be on the actual devices anyway - it'd be a "cloudy" day!

[SammyT]

5 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Now convince them that they all were 18+ or you are in deep trouble.

But single males returning from Thailand seem to be a popular target.

 

Yes, because Thailand is a common source country for drugs in New Zealand. Burden of proof is on authorities to prove the girls were underage, not the other way round...

[KhunBENQ]

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

Often been stopped reentering UK but oddly, never asked to show my devices.

Sure there are less critical reasons to be stopped.

Suitcase full of prescription medication, fake watches/clothes etc.

Edited October 2, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[VBF]

7 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Sure there are less critical reasons to be stopped.

Suitcase full of prescription medication, fake watches/clothes etc.

Yup - often been searched - I carry non-prescription meds such as the usual "first aid" (few Paracetamol, stomach pills etc) or possibly Viagra, and I shall have my scrip for my BP medication. I don't bother with fake watches since the 80s when the novelty wore off and any fake clothes have been used and laundered so obviously mine and not for resale. 

I don't know about NZ but in UK if you aren't some sort of a major dealer in fakes, the customs aren't really interested as long as you're polite and cooperative. They have more to do!

[The manic]

3 hours ago, SammyT said:

I think it's worth pointing out that they probably aren't doing this to every tourist flying back from a couple of weeks in Pattaya. It'd be people who trigger off some of their alerts regarding drug smuggling or other organised crime that are probably going to get stopped. 

 

<deleted> they could look through my phone if they want. Be awkward as <deleted> while they flick through the nude pics that I get girls from Tinder to send me, but they won't find much else interesting. 

Smuggling pornography? Age consent proof/paperwork? Bit torrent sites synced from other devices?  Sex tourism? 

[The manic]

2 hours ago, SammyT said:

 

Yes, because Thailand is a common source country for drugs in New Zealand. Burden of proof is on authorities to prove the girls were underage, not the other way round...

Nope. ' Reasonable suspicion' a crime has been committed.

[The manic]

3 hours ago, SammyT said:

 

Yes, because Thailand is a common source country for drugs in New Zealand. Burden of proof is on authorities to prove the girls were underage, not the other way round...

No..NZ makes its own Pea, crank, bake and dope these days...Things have changed since the 70s. Unfortunately!

[Credo]

I've only known one person who got stopped and asked for his password.  Unfortunately, his password was a not-very-nice word that begins with "F" and ends with you.   They asked for his password.   He told them.   He spent considerable time being temporarily detained and explaining.

 

 

[garzhe]

12 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Much worse from what I have read (beat me if it's fake news):

device can be confiscated until you rethink.

device can be sent to forensic/agency lab trying to crack.

And probably even worse sanctions.

No waterboarding though.

I guess if your not a National they can refuse you entry if you dont comply or lost one of your passwords.

[SammyT]

8 hours ago, The manic said:

No..NZ makes its own Pea, crank, bake and dope these days...Things have changed since the 70s. Unfortunately!

 

Yes they do, but the primary trend at the moment is that it is sent from overseas because sourcing it in countries like Thailand/China is significantly cheaper than making it yourself in NZ.  

[from the home of CC]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I don't think they can automatically fine you for not complying, though. Make life difficult - sure.

 

Don't know about the fine but they will refuse you entry or confiscate the device and forensically examine the data.

[SammyT]

8 hours ago, The manic said:

Nope. ' Reasonable suspicion' a crime has been committed.

 Wrong. Good cause to suspect to start and investigation, reasonable grounds to believe to lay charges, but burden of proof ultimately still rests on prosecution in terms of getting a conviction. As in, if someone were charged with objectionable material, it rests on the prosecution to prove the girl is underage, not the defence to prove the girl is overage. Subtle difference, but an important one to most justice systems.

 

In any case, I avoid women who are, or who look underage, so they could look through my gallery all they want. Not ever gonna be any confusion there...

[BestB]

But what is the reason for it? What are they looking for. 

 

NZ is neutral so it’s not terrorism , child porn? 

[SammyT]

9 hours ago, The manic said:

Smuggling pornography? Age consent proof/paperwork? Bit torrent sites synced from other devices?  Sex tourism? 

 

Do you know how many NZ tourists go to Thailand a year? Unless they had grounds to believe otherwise, I doubt they're going to be stopping any male travelling solo back from Thailand, given that would account for about a third of the two flights a day that get into Auckland ex-Thailand. I've been travelling back and forward from Thailand regularly for the last ten years and never once been stopped. I'm in my early 30's, so probably a target demographic for people doing illegal stuff. I guess they just have semi-decent vetting and screening processes to decide who they want to give the gloved search to. 

 

I'd say they're more interested in single males travelling from their 4 day trip to South America in terms of people likely to be committing offences. Trunk route for coke and other hard drugs and all.  

[SammyT]

3 minutes ago, BestB said:

But what is the reason for it? What are they looking for. 

 

NZ is neutral so it’s not terrorism , child porn? 

 

Drugs and transnational organised crime mainly, I presume. We have high rates of drug abuse in our country. Also have a few issues with loonies spouting ISIS stuff, but nothing like Aussie or Britain. I'd say they're just future-proofing laws. 

[car720]

13 hours ago, oilinki said:

Right. If I'd be a terrorist, I would make software for both laptop and phone, which emulates the password login / screen lock.

 

There are two different passwords:

1) To open the phone / laptop normally

2) To give for the customs. This option wipes out / rewrites the blocks which have sensitive material once the password has been given.

 

  Naturally the phone / laptop would open normally, once the sensitive files would have been hidden (fast) and later on deleted (takes time).

 

 

 

 

But why would you keep anything on your hardware when you can store it in the clouds?  Access from anywhere at any time.

I was in a government office not all that long ago and they were still using XP.  How do these fools ever hope to keep up with the rest of the world let alone those of intelligence.

[Morch]

14 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Common practice in spy-nation #1 the UK. Just a fine? They can actually imprison you until you tell your password. That’ll be fun rotting in a prison cell because there’s an old zip file on your computer from years ago and you can’t remember the password. 

 

I’m glad I don’t have to live in one of those big brother systems that treat civil rights like shit. 

 

I don't know that the UK is the "spy-nation #1", or that this got any bearing on the topic. I've no idea where you live, but as this is a Thai-oriented forum, I somehow doubt Thailand's authorities are better when it comes to issues of civil rights.

 

 

13 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Much worse from what I have read (beat me if it's fake news):

device can be confiscated until you rethink.

device can be sent to forensic/agency lab trying to crack.

And probably even worse sanctions.

No waterboarding though.

 

33 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

 

Don't know about the fine but they will refuse you entry or confiscate the device and forensically examine the data.

 

They can do all that, plus deny you entry to the country if you're not a resident/citizen. But, and that was the point, you still have the option to choose refusing to comply. The NZ version goes a step beyond that, IMO, in that it prescribes a punishment for not complying. The measures (draconian as they are, no argument there) detailed above are not mandatory - but applied according to circumstances.

 

Not a big difference, perhaps, in terms of actual application or the receiving end experience, but conceptually it's a step backward as far as freedoms go.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Morch

[car720]

34 minutes ago, SammyT said:

 Wrong. Good cause to suspect to start and investigation, reasonable grounds to believe to lay charges, but burden of proof ultimately still rests on prosecution in terms of getting a conviction. As in, if someone were charged with objectionable material, it rests on the prosecution to prove the girl is underage, not the defence to prove the girl is overage. Subtle difference, but an important one to most justice systems.

 

In any case, I avoid women who are, or who look underage, so they could look through my gallery all they want. Not ever gonna be any confusion there...

this is what they will see in mine. 

[Srikcir]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

or be slapped with a NZ$5,000 fine.

Will they accept an ISIS or North Korean debit card?