Overseas pensioners cheated by the British government

[jamie2009]

If you were a dishonest person and you provided a UK address, had a UK Bank Account and registered on the Electoral Roll how would the Pension Service know you were living abroad ?

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, jamie2009 said:

If you were a dishonest person and you provided a UK address, had a UK Bank Account and registered on the Electoral Roll how would the Pension Service know you were living abroad ?

 

I considered that when applying for my pension, but decided that lying on such an official document might not be the brightest thing to do. Especially when you work out that the annual increase that is lost is actually quite small. It's morally wrong to deny us the increase, but financially it is insignificant.

[Psimbo]

8 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

I considered that when applying for my pension, but decided that lying on such an official document might not be the brightest thing to do. Especially when you work out that the annual increase that is lost is actually quite small. It's morally wrong to deny us the increase, but financially it is insignificant.

Not if its over 20 years which is the situation some people I know are in.

[HHTel]

An old friend of mine was claiming full state pension, pension credit and cold weather allowance.  He was only claiming state pension, the others are automatic.  However he eventually received a letter at his UK address stating that he was not entitled as he lived in Thailand.  He was having to pay it back at 50 quid a month until the day he died.

They have ways of finding these things out!

[watcharacters]

3 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

This is relating to those commenting about not getting inflation increases as they are not resident in the UK. Therefore no British address.

 

Thanks for proving that clarification for those who couldn't discern it from my post. I thought it was obvious but I was apparently wrong.

 

My post was based on the information I read on the link Krato provided:   http://www.britishpensions.org.au/frozenindexed.htm

 

I don't consider it dishonest to circumvent some regulations that are designed to save money  for the administration on the backs of some of those individuals who fed they system in the first place.

 

The  regulations  placed against those wishing to live in another country are, to me, nothing short of a restriction of personal freedom.  The Philippines would or could have been another near by option.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by watcharacters

[Just Weird]

21 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

That has been the case for many years.

I know!

[Just Weird]

21 hours ago, Dionigi said:

This looks like a scam....You do not need to contribute money to these petitions.

Neither do you have to!  It's voluntary.

[Kwasaki]

On 10/9/2018 at 2:24 PM, BWPattaya said:

It will be interesting to see if they continue to pay expats in Spain the yearly increases. If they do how can they continue to deny us?

 

Spain & UK have made an agreement with each other on annual increases.

Same as the Philippines has.

Uk & Thailand have no agreement to pay annual increases and never will have IMO.

 

22 hours ago, Tofer said:

I would just love one politician to stand up and explain why overseas residents are treat any different to UK residents who have both paid the same into the NI system to cover pensions over their working lives.

 

The issue of residency is utterly irrelevant.

Not to UK governments it's not.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Kwasaki

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Thanks for proving that clarification for those who couldn't discern it from my post. I thought it was obvious but I was apparently wrong.

 

My post was based on the information I read on the link Krato provided:   http://www.britishpensions.org.au/frozenindexed.htm

 

I don't consider it dishonest to circumvent some regulations that are designed to save money  for the administration on the backs of some of those individuals who fed they system in the first place.

 

The  regulations  placed against those wishing to live in another country are, to me, nothing short of a restriction of personal freedom.  The Philippines would or could have been another near by option.

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying and agree with you. However, those who are in a position to take legal action against those who provide inaccurate information do not share our view. Apart from 'Thai' Brits, I would be especially angry if I was living in a Commonwealth country and was excluded from the increases, while many living in some non-Commonwealth (and non-EU) countries are included. That particularly stinks, in my view.

[ivor bigun]

If you were a dishonest person and you provided a UK address, had a UK Bank Account and registered on the Electoral Roll how would the Pension Service know you were living abroad ?

If someone told on you

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[AbeSurd]

17 hours ago, jamie2009 said:

If you were a dishonest person and you provided a UK address, had a UK Bank Account and registered on the Electoral Roll how would the Pension Service know you were living abroad ?

Well, I believe whenever you go in or out of the UK your passport is scanned into the UK immigration computer system.

[AbeSurd]

On 10/9/2018 at 3:35 PM, evadgib said:

As to what the Govt might gain by paying the increments; How about 550k pensioners or their spouses not clogging up or taking advantage of the NHS/Bus passes/TV licences or other freebies available to domestic or (for now) Brits living in the EU?

Fair comment. But the other side of the coin is that by living abroad you're spending your money abroad and not in the UK.

[evadgib]

4 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

Fair comment. But the other side of the coin is that by living abroad you're spending your money abroad and not in the UK.

That Red Herring is entirely the prerogative of each and every one of us.

Edited October 11, 2018 by evadgib

[sandyf]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:44 AM, Expatwannabee said:

It's actually worse than that. It's not that pensioner's money was badly invested. It's not invested at all.What a pensioner pays in while working is used to pay the pensions of those already retired. Then when the worker retires his pension is paid out of money collected from those still working. Typical government scam.

Quite right but I would say it was generally speaking a badly managed arrangement rather than a deliberate scam. It worked to a certain extent with a growing working population, the problems came when the elderly started living longer and the outgoings increased significantly.

The frozen pensions is a separate issue altogether, the law currently requires an appropriate reciprocal agreement is in place and they abandoned making these agreements I think about 30 years ago. They are quite complex, Canada for instance has an agreement but it does not include pension payments.

The government needs to change the law, which could be relatively easy by making pensions only payable in the UK then international agreement would not come into it.

Of course the government will look to any excuse to avoid the expense.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

Fair comment. But the other side of the coin is that by living abroad you're spending your money abroad and not in the UK.

That is an invalid argument. Anyone that has made the same contributions should be entitled to the same returns, irrespective of anything else.

[jamie2009]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That is an invalid argument. Anyone that has made the same contributions should be entitled to the same returns, irrespective of anything else.

Correct I contributed for nearly 50 years, some one who has never worked or rarely worked and never contributed will gat a State Pension and assuming they have no more I think than £16k will also qualify for top up benefits.

It’s a great way by the UK government too reward the hard working people who not only paid N.I but Income Tax and Graduated Pension before it was abolished.

[colinneil]

5 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

Fair comment. But the other side of the coin is that by living abroad you're spending your money abroad and not in the UK.

Are you serious?

I like many others paid into the system for many a year, so what does it matter where i spend my money.

Crazy you should think we should only spend our money in the UK.

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

Correct I contributed for nearly 50 years, some one who has never worked or rarely worked and never contributed will gat a State Pension and assuming they have no more I think than £16k will also qualify for top up benefits.

It’s a great way by the UK government too reward the hard working people who not only paid N.I but Income Tax and Graduated Pension before it was abolished.

Yes, i was 49 years and one incomplete year, my birthday being in August. I do not think you can actually achieve 50 years, would need to be one day short.

Before coming to Thailand I had an ex council house and the one next to me was still council. The first neighbour was very good but she moved away and was replaced by 2 unmarried 17 year olds. The had no intention of ever working and in due course they will get the full pension after having lived off the state throughout their lives.

[Henryford]

No UK Government is going to change that. We are out of the country and out of their priorities. The r@pefugees that haven't paid a penny in tax are more important to them.

[AbeSurd]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

Crazy you should think we should only spend our money in the UK.

That's not what I said.

If we're going to argue that we're saving the UK money by not using the NHS, the police, the roads, the street lighting etc etc, then we should expect to hear the counter argument that we're also 'costing' the country by taking our money abroad.

It would probably be best for us to argue that the situation balances itself out.

[Expattaff1308]

On 10/9/2018 at 6:44 PM, Hugh Jarse said:

 

A labour government has pledged to look at this anomally when they get back into power shortly! Corbyn has been on record saying it is unfair.

As did Steve Webb (Lib /Dem) who when in opposition spoke in Parliament on four separate occasions about this unfair unjust system and that Government should put this right.

Then came the coalition (Lib Dems & Cons)  & the New Pensions Minister - Yes you got it Steve Webb - Who then announced there has been no change to this system of frozen pensions for years and I see no point in changing it now...

[Expattaff1308]

12 minutes ago, AbeSurd said:

That's not what I said.

If we're going to argue that we're saving the UK money by not using the NHS, the police, the roads, the street lighting etc etc, then we should expect to hear the counter argument that we're also 'costing' the country by taking our money abroad.

It would probably be best for us to argue that the situation balances itself out.

The Consortium for British Pensioners claim that by living abroad and continuing to Pay UK Taxes we save the UK approx 7000 per person per year by not using roads hospitals doctors bus passes and all the allowances afforded to pensioners in the UK

[Expattaff1308]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Yes, i was 49 years and one incomplete year, my birthday being in August. I do not think you can actually achieve 50 years, would need to be one day short.

Before coming to Thailand I had an ex council house and the one next to me was still council. The first neighbour was very good but she moved away and was replaced by 2 unmarried 17 year olds. The had no intention of ever working and in due course they will get the full pension after having lived off the state throughout their lives.

Still pay Tax on my Pensions

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Still pay Tax on my Pensions

Many of us do. About 12% of income tax goes on state pension so we are partially funding our own frozen pension.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask.

[ivor bigun]

Well, I believe whenever you go in or out of the UK your passport is scanned into the UK immigration computer system.

You are correct but as someone who was ((in the trade) posted some time ago on the pensions thread,unless you Carlos the Jackel, and not Percy the pensioner you are not going to be picked up.

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[AbeSurd]

17 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

The Consortium for British Pensioners claim that by living abroad and continuing to Pay UK Taxes we save the UK approx 7000 per person per year by not using roads hospitals doctors bus passes and all the allowances afforded to pensioners in the UK

There are some taxes we don't continue to pay - vehicle fuel tax and VAT in the shops, for example.

[ivor bigun]

There are some taxes we don't continue to pay - vehicle fuel tax and VAT in the shops, for example.

So same as people who cycle (no tax and insurance) or say people who live in a care home paid for by tax,part of which comes from pensioners abroad next [emoji4]

 

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[AbeSurd]

2 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

You are correct but as someone who was ((in the trade) posted some time ago on the pensions thread,unless you Carlos the Jackel, and not Percy the pensioner you are not going to be picked up.

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It depends on how easy it is to automatically match one database with another. Which is probably a rapidly 'improving' (cough) situation. A year or two ago if you registered online to start your UK state pension they requested your passport number (but you didn't have to supply it).

[jamie2009]

6 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

You are correct but as someone who was ((in the trade) posted some time ago on the pensions thread,unless you Carlos the Jackel, and not Percy the pensioner you are not going to be picked up.

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As far as I know the you don’t go on a computer system, when they scan your Passport at U.K.all they are doing is making sure that the info on the magnetic strip is the same as on your Passport.

At Newcastle they now have electronic gates at Passport Control so no I.O. looks at your Passport.

As you don’t pass through Immigration when you leave the U.K. they don’t know if you have left the U.K. I travel 3/4 times a year from the U.K to Thailand.

When I my Thai lady departed the U.K last year we didn’t have to go through U.K. immigration, not like Thailand, 90 Day reporting and before exiting you have too pass through Immigration.

[ivor bigun]

As far as I know the you don’t go on a computer system, when they scan your Passport at U.K.all they are doing is making sure that the info on the magnetic strip is the same as on your Passport.
At Newcastle they now have electronic gates at Passport Control so no I.O. looks at your Passport.
As you don’t pass through Immigration when you leave the U.K. they don’t know if you have left the U.K. I travel 3/4 times a year from the U.K to Thailand.
When I my Thai lady departed the U.K last year we didn’t have to go through U.K. immigration, not like Thailand, 90 Day reporting and before exiting you have too pass through Immigration.

Also you can get your passport renewd in the UK when you are there,no problem

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