Tolerance under stress as ‘loud’ mosque prayers draw complaints

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, bipper said:

Jakarta? Their culture! How can you complain about them not accepting our culture when they are in London or New York and you won't accept theirs in their own bloody country. Christ is that so difficult to understand????

According to the heading of this thread ( if  we  are talking this thread) many Thais dont like the noise, which is "their culture" and in another recent  thread also said the same 

 

[ross163103]

Singapore got it right on this issue many years ago. You can be whatever religion you want, as long as it doesn't disturb other people.......like wailing out the call to prayers; not muslim bashing, just an example.

Edited October 8, 2018 by ross163103
Spelling

[kannot]

1 minute ago, ross163103 said:

Singapore got it right on this issue may years ago. You can be whatever religion you want, as long as it doesn't disturb other people.......like wailing out the call to prayers; not muslim bashing, just an example.

Best way, and also add that religions are not seen as evidence of anything and questioning them about anything should be  fully acceptable and they should not get "respect".

Allowing them respect means you should let any opinion on any subject respect with zero evidence.

[gunderhill]

38 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

As always, the biggest problem in the world, Moslims, in many countries.

Religion in all countries

[The manic]

9 hours ago, Darkside Gray said:

Seems like Muslim Bashing to me, the mosques and whats were there long before the condos.

Mosques did not use loud digital sound systems in the past.

Edited October 8, 2018 by The manic

[love asia]

the muslim imam and adviser,  want that the new-commers to the area, to ajust to the local cultur and way of life..!!  but to me it seems like the muslims, when they did come to the area, DID not ajust to the local culture, and way of life,  because if they had done that they will not make alle the noice and larm, every day and so many times and so loud..  because i think the muslime did NOT ajust when they came to the area years ago..!!    sadly most muslim, always think, alle non muslime,  must ajust and accept the muslim way of life,  BUT most times  muslime,  do not accept the non muslime way of life and culture..!!    I THINK it is TIME that muslime start ajust to  the culture and way of life in the area and land where they are,  and not try to make/force all others to accept the muslime culture and way of life..!!   when they come to oure countryes, and oure area first time..!!

 

[gunderhill]

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

I referred to the Thai Constitution, the last I recall was authorised in 2017, but I understand not published. There has been a draft translation into English, don't know if one can legally link to the translation by way of a Thai domiciled forum. You can research earlier versions of the Constitution which granted full religious freedom which is reflected in TV rules - leave it at that.

Think you missed  my  point

[The Deerhunter]

9 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I doubt if they would ever notice, what with their never ending high-volume chatter.

 

Been to Russia and two other communist countries and had fun. but the only time I have ever been in a Muslim country was to change planes twice at K.L. No fun at all and I don't even want to do that again.  You can have my share if you like. Thai was booked several weeks each side of my dates and they are the only non-stop to the destination. If I have to do that again I will have to look around again.  Flying Emirates might be as close as you get to finding me in a Muslim country.  I may make an exception with Indonesia.  The largest but least-Muslim, Muslim country in the world.

[madusa]

This is a religion based on falsehood, folklores and myth just like Christianity. They are the twin evils. Can you really expect something good when it all started without sincerity or really good intention?

Power was and is what they are after what more if this power comes from God himself. ISIS will explain to you the power given to them by God to get rid of you filthy half bred goat-pig infidel. Yes, that's what they called you. What do you think they called you? Still don't believe me? You are naive.

I have good kind Muslim and Christian friends but I feel sorry for them for not being able to perceive reality. They failed to see medieval time came and gone. This is the new era. If Elon Musk is successful we may be able to live on Mars. Elon Musk lifetime may not achieve it but the generation after him will because of his good work in establishing the foundation.

"The unfaithful will be put to the sword"- what a forward thinking and compassionate religion.

 

[Derek B]

How was the call to prayer conducted before loudspeakers were invented?

[The manic]

10 minutes ago, Derek B said:

How was the call to prayer conducted before loudspeakers were invented?

The Immans assistant, the muzzein would call out the call to prayer. Now the muzzein is amplified beyond normal voice volume. Sometimes it is prerecorded.  It is truly dreadful. Its starts before dawn and continues 4 times a day. It is not just a call to prayet it is an affirmation of the main tenates of Islam. 

[LALes]

One of the problems with Islam is they start with the yodeling at 4:30 in the morning.

I remember staying in a hotel in Jakarta where the loudspeaker in the hall would go off at about 4:30 every morning demanding your obedience.  Damn religions.

[annabel]

16 hours ago, irwinfc said:

maybe similar to pavlov's bell? 

Why can't they get alarm clocks like everybody else does when there is a need to get up at a specific hour ???

Edited October 8, 2018 by annabel

[annabel]

15 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Imagine the uproar if Christian churches started ringing their bells and broadcasting "calls to prayers" at 0500 everyday. 

If Buddhist temples started broadcasting over amplified loudspeakers at daybreak everyday for people to come out and donate to the monks wandering around the area you can bet that there'd be a lot of complaints.

 

Now multiply that by 5 (times). Everyday. 

 

The "calls to prayers" are not just a "reminder" to the faithful, they are essentially propaganda directed at everyone in the area to try and convince them that Islam is the dominant religion (whether it is or not in that area). (Kind of like subliminal advertising.)

It is just one of the many ways they keep their own followers in line and try to influence everyone else. Blasphemy and Apostasy laws are also used to prevent followers from leaving the religion.

 

Christian Churches used to do much the same thing. The building of huge cathedrals and the bell ringings ("calls to service") were meant to remind their followers that Christianity ruled the land. "Tithing" and threats of excommunication were (are) used to keep the faithful in line.

Failing to tithe could result in being blacklisted by the church and everyone else in your community. It still happens in some places. I knew a guy from a small town in Germany back in the mid-80's that decided he wasn't going to give 10% of his earnings to the church, especially as he never even attended it. Within a couple weeks he was blacklisted from every business in the town and even his parents were threatening to kick him out of the house (after graduating from high school he was on a low-paying apprenticeship program so was still living with his parents until he had to report for military service). When I asked my other friends, they all "tithed" even if they never attended any services on a regular basis. They didn't want to face the same reaction from the people in the towns/villages they lived in.

Most religions have methods to "convince" their followers to remain faithful and to try and draw them into their churches/mosques/temples/whatever as that is usually where they can fleece them for the most money. Without that influx of cash, they couldn't afford to build bigger and better (whatever's) and would have a harder time trying to spread their influence (and thus a harder time of gaining more followers and more money of course).

It's not only at 5.00 am but 4 more times a day being again at 8.00 am , 12.00 pm, 5.00 pm and 8.00 pm.... then there are the Ramadan and other fasting/feasting holidays where they go around at 3.00 am with drums and loud musical instruments as well as chanting to wake them up for the morning eat b/4 the daily fasting begins and scares the living shit out of you ... I lived through it for 23 years in India and I just couldn't ever get used to it ...ever! Get a <deleted>....g alarm clock or set them up with an in house one set up by the mosque ...

[German farang]

16 hours ago, irwinfc said:

maybe similar to pavlov's bell? 

5 times a day, every day... extremely anyoing!

[spidermike007]

There is a quote somewhere in the Hindu scriptures attributed to Krishna. It goes "my favorite yogi is a secret yogi". I believe it means that the relationship between a man or woman, and the Divine, or spirit, is an intimate one, and should not be shared, broadcast, or diluted by nonsense. Aspects, or certain practitioners of the Muslim religion seem to be a very loud, and one wonders what to make out of that. Also the need to try to change the world, the proselytizing, the intolerance, etc. Where is the dignity in all of that?

 

No religion or faith should be entitled to project a call to prayer over loudspeakers. If the faithful do not know enough to pray, come to temple, or practice their faith in private, then just let it go. 

[waders123]

Might I suggest a muslim app?  One that will alert the muslim community to their mosques messages and still not disturb everyone in the area with the banging and clanging of the bells and voices from the loudspeakers.  Regardless of how long anybody has been in the community it is nice to have less noise.  A muslim app would solve the noise situation they are creating.  

[Ulic]

Call to prayer, voice only, no electric amplification. Just like ancient times.

[Damrongsak]

42 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Call to prayer, voice only, no electric amplification. Just like ancient times.

Get yer butt into prayer ...

 

 

[quandow]

Reminds me of a time when Muslims moved next door to a Texas pig farm and demanded HE move so THEY could build a mosque. I'm sure you can imagine how THAT went. People, you can't have it both ways!

[quandow]

4 hours ago, waders123 said:

Might I suggest a muslim app?  One that will alert the muslim community to their mosques messages and still not disturb everyone in the area with the banging and clanging of the bells and voices from the loudspeakers.  Regardless of how long anybody has been in the community it is nice to have less noise.  A muslim app would solve the noise situation they are creating.  

I believe the Amish developed that app.

[Naam]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There is a quote somewhere in the Hindu scriptures attributed to Krishna. It goes "my favorite yogi is a secret yogi". I believe it means that the relationship between a man or woman, and the Divine, or spirit, is an intimate one, and should not be shared, broadcast, or diluted by nonsense. Aspects, or certain practitioners of the Muslim religion seem to be a very loud, and one wonders what to make out of that. Also the need to try to change the world, the proselytizing, the intolerance, etc. Where is the dignity in all of that?

 

No religion or faith should be entitled to project a call to prayer over loudspeakers. If the faithful do not know enough to pray, come to temple, or practice their faith in private, then just let it go. 

most church bells are louder. 

[Tony Hanscomb]

The islamists use the awful loudspeaker to intimidate the people in the area, Islam is a religion designed to be in your face and fear is also used to keep its members from rejecting it.

I think all megaphones and very loud loudspeakers should be regulated and in most places should be banned as they generally encroach on people's private space.

[bert bloggs]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

most church bells are louder. 

And much nicer than some guy wailing all the time .dont know how people put up with it,at least church bells were only twice a day and certainly not 5 am in the morning .

[TMNH]

On 10/7/2018 at 8:46 PM, Darkside Gray said:

Seems like Muslim Bashing to me, the mosques and whats were there long before the condos.

Seems that you didn't get the point. NO religion needs loud noise and/or reminders. You simply know when  to attend services without the obnoxious reminders to do so. These are more modern times- obviously you don't get that.

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Naam said:

most church bells are louder. 

 

I think you would find that most of us find church bells delightful in comparison to the Muslim call to prayer blasted over loudspeakers, that can be heard miles away.

[ross163103]

2 hours ago, Tony Hanscomb said:

The islamists use the awful loudspeaker to intimidate the people in the area, Islam is a religion designed to be in your face and fear is also used to keep its members from rejecting it.

Agree totally! It's not about them having alarm clocks, apps or whatever to tell them the time to pray--that would be too easy, it's about influencing the infidels--their word not mine, around them to accept the fact that this area is muslim; it's all psychological.

[lvr181]

2 hours ago, Tony Hanscomb said:

and fear is also used to keep its members from rejecting it.

Same as christianity. Nothing new.

[SpeakeasyThai]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I think you would find that most of us find church bells delightful in comparison to the Muslim call to prayer blasted over loudspeakers, that can be heard miles away.

Absolute rubbish statement.

People who are unfortunate to live next to Churches that ring out their bells can't stand it. There was a case in point in Gloucestershire UK where the locals were up in arms about it as they just wanted some peace and quiete on a sunday morning. The issue was taken to the local town council -  locals were furious and it was preventing them from selling their houses as buyers were also concerned about the anti social sunday morning noise pollution. 

What looked like a picture postcard village scene was infact a tuneless nightmare racket every sunday. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by SpeakeasyThai

[Naam]

2 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

5 hours ago, Naam said:

most church bells are louder. 

And much nicer than some guy wailing all the time .dont know how people put up with it

that's a matter of perspective.