BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[wayned]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's a well founded assumption as they generally accept all embassy letters as old as six months.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The IO that I spoke to in Nakhon Sawan Immigration yesterday said that they will continue to accept them and issue extensions without any back up documentation until they are directed to do otherwise and that's not an assumption, it came direct from the Sgt. Major's mouth.

[smedly]

posted before but will try again

 

I have up to now used the 800k balance for my 12 month extension, this means that throughout the year up to extension renewal I transfer funds to my Thai bank account (not equal to 65k a month but more like 40k a month) so for the 12 months I transfer 40,000 x 12 = 480k (usually 2x transfers of 240kbaht a year)  baht from outside Thailand which should qualify as verifiable income into my Thai bank account regardless of how many transfers it involves, so that should mean my actual Thai bank balance requires an additional 320k baht seasoned for 3 months to tally up to 800k baht of income and balance using the combo method

 

To me this is the simplest way of providing the Thai Immigration with what they want to see - no need for Embassy involvement at all, no need for any additional paperwork, no need for anything other than your Thai bank statement for the previous 12 months - it is all available through your Thai bank account in Thailand

 

This seems a much better solution than anything being used right now

 

Thoughts

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That hasn't been confirmed, just an assumption.

It has been confirmed by Thai Immigration.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

posted before but will try again

 

I have up to now used the 800k balance for my 12 month extension, this means that throughout the year up to extension renewal I transfer funds to my Thai bank account (not equal to 65k a month but more like 40k a month) so for the 12 months I transfer 40,000 x 12 = 480k (usually 2x transfers of 240kbaht a year)  baht from outside Thailand which should qualify as verifiable income into my Thai bank account regardless of how many transfers it involves, so that should mean my actual Thai bank balance requires an additional 320k baht seasoned for 3 months to tally up to 800k baht of income and balance using the combo method

 

To me this is the simplest way of providing the Thai Immigration with what they want to see - no need for Embassy involvement at all, no need for any additional paperwork, no need for anything other than your Thai bank statement for the previous 12 months - it is all available through your Thai bank account in Thailand

 

This seems a much better solution than anything being used right now

 

Thoughts

For me an embassy letter confirming my income is a much easier, cheaper and simpler method.

[steve73]

There must be quite a few British retirees who use the income method that don't post on here (or elsewhere), and could well be unaware of this change....  I think we all need to bring this change to their attention.

 

I've see many comments here that it won't affect anyone until c. June next year since they can get their income letter up to 6 months early...

But what if they don't realize until they turn up at the BE a few days before they're planning on extending their visa, only to be told no.. And by then it'll be too late to bring in the funds and season them. 

[Esso49]

3 minutes ago, steve73 said:

There must be quite a few British retirees who use the income method that don't post on here (or elsewhere), and could well be unaware of this change....  I think we all need to bring this change to their attention.

 

I've see many comments here that it won't affect anyone until c. June next year since they can get their income letter up to 6 months early...

But what if they don't realize until they turn up at the BE a few days before they're planning on extending their visa, only to be told no.. And by then it'll be too late to bring in the funds and season them. 

And that is assuming also that they have the funds to bring in.  Chances are is that that is the reason they use the income method because simply they do not have that amount of money available.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, steve73 said:

But what if they don't realize until they turn up at the BE a few days before they're planning on extending their visa, only to be told no..

They would not be going to the UK embassy for the letter since they are only done by mail now. Hopefully they will be going to the webpage to get the latest requirements for the income letter and find out it is no longer possible. If not they would get a letter back from the embassy informing them it is not possible after they mailed the application in.

[steve73]

10 minutes ago, smedly said:

posted before but will try again

 

I have up to now used the 800k balance for my 12 month extension, this means that throughout the year up to extension renewal I transfer funds to my Thai bank account (not equal to 65k a month but more like 40k a month) so for the 12 months I transfer 40,000 x 12 = 480k (usually 2x transfers of 240kbaht a year)  baht from outside Thailand which should qualify as verifiable income into my Thai bank account regardless of how many transfers it involves, so that should mean my actual Thai bank balance requires an additional 320k baht seasoned for 3 months to tally up to 800k baht of income and balance using the combo method

 

To me this is the simplest way of providing the Thai Immigration with what they want to see - no need for Embassy involvement at all, no need for any additional paperwork, no need for anything other than your Thai bank statement for the previous 12 months - it is all available through your Thai bank account in Thailand

 

This seems a much better solution than anything being used right now

 

Thoughts

I agree this would be a sensible approach, but it still relies on the Thai bank changing its procedures (to issue a letter advising income as well as the savings), and Thai Imm. accepting that Bank letter as an alternative to an embassy letter.

And yes, I realize that currently your income doesn't need to actually come into T/L, or that this suggestion would prevent someone "recycling" their cash.  

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, steve73 said:

There must be quite a few British retirees who use the income method that don't post on here (or elsewhere), and could well be unaware of this change....  I think we all need to bring this change to their attention.

 

I've see many comments here that it won't affect anyone until c. June next year since they can get their income letter up to 6 months early...

But what if they don't realize until they turn up at the BE a few days before they're planning on extending their visa, only to be told no.. And by then it'll be too late to bring in the funds and season them. 

Absolutely true. This will affect anyone who hasn't applied for their embassy letters before December 12th. Expect people having problems from January onwards.

 

BTW it doesn't only apply to those who don't visit TVF. There are a number of posters on here that are still convinced that they will be able to turn up at their IO, next year, armed with an armful of evidence that they do have a monthly income and expect to get their visas extended. There's no telling some people.l

[steve73]

4 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

And that is assuming also that they have the funds to bring in.  Chances are is that that is the reason they use the income method because simply they do not have that amount of money available.

I disagree... I know many people (not just Brits) who have plenty of available savings yet prefer to use the income method for a number of reasons (better returns elsewhere, not wanting to keep too much here, etc.), but if this becomes the only way that the Brits can secure their extension then they'll need to do it.

I only keep enough savings here simply because I have insufficient income at the present time. 

[Thaidream]

14 minutes ago, smedly said:

posted before but will try again

 

I have up to now used the 800k balance for my 12 month extension, this means that throughout the year up to extension renewal I transfer funds to my Thai bank account (not equal to 65k a month but more like 40k a month) so for the 12 months I transfer 40,000 x 12 = 480k (usually 2x transfers of 240kbaht a year)  baht from outside Thailand which should qualify as verifiable income into my Thai bank account regardless of how many transfers it involves, so that should mean my actual Thai bank balance requires an additional 320k baht seasoned for 3 months to tally up to 800k baht of income and balance using the combo method

 

To me this is the simplest way of providing the Thai Immigration with what they want to see - no need for Embassy involvement at all, no need for any additional paperwork, no need for anything other than your Thai bank statement for the previous 12 months - it is all available through your Thai bank account in Thailand

 

This seems a much better solution than anything being used right now

 

Thoughts

With all due respect- this may be easier for you or others- but some of us do not have or do not care to tie up funds in a Thai bank nor do we want to do business with a Thai Bank.

 

I have used the same bank  for 50 years in  New York- they know me and I know them-  All my pensions are direct deposited in the same account- and drawn out in Thailand as needed- deposits amount to more than 65K per month- can easily prove it- bank summary; ATM cards with slips etc etc.  I have had many  Thai bank accounts- mostly used when I was working in Thailand.  Now-retied  for a long time- no need for any Thai Bank other than the ATM to get my money out.

 

The  Thai Police Order says I can do it this way- so does the Immigration Act of 1979. While I could bring in said amounts in a lump sum - if forced- some people cannot do this as they do not have an extra 800K lying about but do have the required income stream. That is why the Police Order indicates 800K OR 65K per month.  Can they change it- of course- but no real reason to do that. Imm Officers now can and do ask for added proof  -they know how to read foreign bank statements in English or Pension Letters in English. If another language can get a translator to put it in Thai or English .

[ubonjoe]

A baiting post and a reply to it have been removed. 

Posts will now be removed without notice. If your posts disappear you can assume you stepped over the line.

[xylophone]

32 minutes ago, smedly said:

posted before but will try again

 

I have up to now used the 800k balance for my 12 month extension, this means that throughout the year up to extension renewal I transfer funds to my Thai bank account (not equal to 65k a month but more like 40k a month) so for the 12 months I transfer 40,000 x 12 = 480k (usually 2x transfers of 240kbaht a year)  baht from outside Thailand which should qualify as verifiable income into my Thai bank account regardless of how many transfers it involves, so that should mean my actual Thai bank balance requires an additional 320k baht seasoned for 3 months to tally up to 800k baht of income and balance using the combo method

 

To me this is the simplest way of providing the Thai Immigration with what they want to see - no need for Embassy involvement at all, no need for any additional paperwork, no need for anything other than your Thai bank statement for the previous 12 months - it is all available through your Thai bank account in Thailand

 

This seems a much better solution than anything being used right now

 

Thoughts

IMO it is a good scheme, although there will be others on here don't agree of course.

 

I have used a combination for my last three extensions (prior to that I deposited 800K into the bank for three months) whereby the embassy letter shows an income amount and I have deposited a lump sum in the bank to cover the rest, however this last time, because of the currency fluctuations, the money I had shown/deposited from the pension income did not quite match the 800K, so there was a shortfall, however I also included copies of my bank account which normally has an average of around 100 K in it, so combined it was alright, although the I/O did comment on it.

 

Not quite the same as you have suggested, because I did use the embassy pension/income letter, however I think what you have suggested is a simple to understand solution.

 

In summary though, good solution as I think it is, what you and others have stated is that the Thai immigration Department is only wanting that which it has always wanted, whereas the "change/fault" lies with the British Embassy and that's where the solution should come from, in my opinion.

[NanLaew]

25 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

And that is assuming also that they have the funds to bring in.  Chances are is that that is the reason they use the income method because simply they do not have that amount of money available.

Are you suggesting that the income letter method is the method preferred by fraudsters?

 

I would like to see how that works when the BE asks to see pension slips and/or bank statements. They don't accept rental contracts, work agreements or any other bits of paper that only suggest a revenue stream either.

 

Recently, I have used printed UK bank statements as well as a downloaded version when the last-quarter printed statement is still in the post. They look identical and they are accepted.

 

Hopefully, my local Immigration Office will accept a printed annual statement of account from my local bank that indicates the regular remittances from overseas totaling in excess of their required minimums, just like they did before.

[blackhorse]

Are you suggesting that the income letter method is the method preferred by fraudsters?
 
I would like to see how that works when the BE asks to see pension slips and/or bank statements. They don't accept rental contracts, work agreements or any other bits of paper that only suggest a revenue stream either.
 
Recently, I have used printed UK bank statements as well as a downloaded version when the last-quarter printed statement is still in the post. They look identical and they are accepted.
 
Hopefully, my local Immigration Office will accept a printed annual statement of account from my local bank that indicates the regular remittances from overseas totaling in excess of their required minimums, just like they did before.

"would like to see how that works when the BE asks to see pension slips and/or bank statements. They don't accept rental contracts, work agreements or any other bits of paper that only suggest a revenue stream either."

But why? There is no good reason for the BE to get involved at this level

[Esso49]

17 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Are you suggesting that the income letter method is the method preferred by fraudsters?

 

I would like to see how that works when the BE asks to see pension slips and/or bank statements. They don't accept rental contracts, work agreements or any other bits of paper that only suggest a revenue stream either.

 

Recently, I have used printed UK bank statements as well as a downloaded version when the last-quarter printed statement is still in the post. They look identical and they are accepted.

 

Hopefully, my local Immigration Office will accept a printed annual statement of account from my local bank that indicates the regular remittances from overseas totaling in excess of their required minimums, just like they did before.

Fraud, you seem confused. You must be dreaming as my reply never used that word, rather it addressed a factual issue of fund availability.

 

The income method is my own preferred choice and it is simply done by me providing them (BE) with copies of my UK state pension statement,  copies of my other pension providers statements and/or P60s.   Very simple and factual as every single document has my NI number on it and my Thai address.  If they requested I could of course EMS the originals but the BE never request that only copies via emails. It would be good next time if Thai immigration would accept production of these original documents in lieu of the BE letter, but lets see next year.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Esso49

[Thailand]

Irrespective of what the BE says or does not say I guess there has been no confirmation or otherwise from Thai immigration to say what they will do and will not do and under what circumstances so I guess at the moment as far as extensions of stay based on monthly income or a combination of that and lump sum is simply speculation.

[Exploring Thailand]

24 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

They don't accept rental contracts, work agreements or any other bits of paper that only suggest a revenue stream either.

Maybe it depends on the individual IO because I gave them a rental agreement, which they accepted.

[wayned]

21 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Hopefully, my local Immigration Office will accept a printed annual statement of account from my local bank that indicates the regular remittances from overseas totaling in excess of their required minimums, just like they did before.

I've been told by one IO as of yesterday that they will not accept documentary proof without the letter, period unless the Thai lae is changed to permit it.

 

I actually can see the reason for the Income affidavit to support those who do not want to bring the 800 k into the country.  What I can't see is the requirement for the letter from your bank that confirms that you have 800k in your account if you use the bank deposit method. Why have the letter if you are also required to present a copy of you bak book updated the same day that not only confirms the balance but shows the activity over the required seasoning period.  Now yhat's just bureaucratic BS!

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, wayned said:

I've been told by one IO as of yesterday that they will not accept documentary proof without the letter, period unless the Thai lae is changed to permit it.

 

I actually can see the reason for the Income affidavit to support those who do not want to bring the 800 k into the country.  What I can't see is the requirement for the letter from your bank that confirms that you have 800k in your account if you use the bank deposit method. Why have the letter if you are also required to present a copy of you bak book updated the same day that not only confirms the balance but shows the activity over the required seasoning period.  Now yhat's just bureaucratic BS!

agree, I will start transferring income to my BKB account via ATM just in case but I don't know if the BKB will write a letter saying 65,000 Baht has gone into the account each month. The bank letter is convenient for IO because they don't need to start counting and possibly matching up ATM slips.

[steve73]

3 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Still no reply from Gov on our petition...it says most reviews take at most 7 days, maybe they don't count weekends. (That would make this day 6 waiting)

Will keep you updated

Wonder if they are thinking up an excuse, if there was something wrong with our petition they would have dismissed it straight away. Bet they weren't expecting it

I suspect the BE here suffers the same issues as the rest of Thailand - that of FACE - so I wouldn't expect a back-track to be forthcoming.

I think the best we could expect from them would be to introduce a similarly worded "Stat Dec" that many of the other Embassies use.  But this could lead the Thais to look more closely at all these, and could well create problems for all.  And then they would have to make other changes.

[dabhand]

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

There must be quite a few British retirees who use the income method that don't post on here (or elsewhere), and could well be unaware of this change....  I think we all need to bring this change to their attention.

 

I've see many comments here that it won't affect anyone until c. June next year since they can get their income letter up to 6 months early...

But what if they don't realize until they turn up at the BE a few days before they're planning on extending their visa, only to be told no.. And by then it'll be too late to bring in the funds and season them. 

Very good point.

 

I have been using the BE income confirmation letter over the last few years, after initially using the 800k cash in the bank option. Last year I used the email option to submit the required documents to the BE and received the Letter a few days later.

 

Given the change of policy from BE it surely would take very little effort for BE to email all Brits, at the very least, who, in the past, have used this email service to apply for the Income Letter. The fact that I have received no notification direct from the BE clearly suggests this has not been done. In my case, my RE expires early May and I would normally apply to the BE around Feb/Mar time. Clearly this would be too late, given their current 12 December application deadline. But I would also be too late to change to a 800k in the bank option as well as the, currently problematic, regular income in a local bank proof.

 

If not for TV I, and I suspect many others of the 3,000 affected, may have been completely unaware until it was too late. Checking up on any change to the BE requirements would also have likely taken place too late to allow a change of option.

 

For the BE to act in such a completely unprofessional way on this very important issue is really disgraceful and just shows their absolute disdain for their fellow citizens. As I noted earlier, even the Austrian consul in Pattaya was aware of this change by 20 September, if not earlier. Whereas the BE only chose to officially advise those who needed to know in October. But, even then, ignoring the opportunity to email those who had previously used this method to submit the application.

 

Yes, registering with the BE would likely have provided that information. But, the fact is that not all Brits are registered, for whatever reason. So that cannot be seen as any excuse for not taking additional appropriate action. After all. they have had five months to 'plan' for this!!

[gdhm]

19 hours ago, steve73 said:

Very few expats (or even Thais, IME) have a current account, unless working in a well paid regular job.

Everyone has a basic "savings" account with an ATM/debit card, and uses it very much like a UK current account.  You can set up regular payments (SO's) or variable direct debits for electricity, etc, make payments to it from abroad or local cash, and take out usually around 30k per day (which can be increased if required).  The only things it won't give you is a Credit card or allow an overdraft.  You can update your book as and when you require (I do mine one per year ready for my extn), but online statements go back 6months, so easy to keep track.

As to sending money from your UK bank - take a look at Transferwise.  You fix the exchange rate when you send, you get mid-market rates usually around 1-2% better than doing a bank transfer, cost is just 1.50 per transfer plus 0.55% (or about 6GBP on a 1k transfer), and your funds usually arrive the next WORKING day.  Check the TW rate at EXACTLY the same time as you do a UK card withdrawal, and make the comparison later when you see how much GBP is cost you.  I'd be surprised if you'd not be getting about 1bt/GBP less than TW would have given (i.e. around 1000bt on a 1kGBP transfer)... every little helps..!

Hi steve73,

Thanks for the info .  I have just looked into Transferwise and yes it would be cheapest method for me. However, I do have a couple of concerns:

1) I have found several recent reports that some have had their account deactivated for no apparent reason or explanation and in a few cases whilst Transferwise were holding transferred funds.

 

2) The way they say they work work seems to suggest that they get their local branch in Thailand to actually transfer the amount to  Thai Accounts. If that is the case, will it not seem to Thai Imm. as though the funds came from funds form within Thailand rather than outside. If so this would not look good as it may seem like one is earning in Thailand.

Maybe I am missing something in my understanding

 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

It has been confirmed by Thai Immigration.

Source please.

 

According to my IO (Roi Et) BE letters will be accepted until 28th Dec, unless he is informed otherwise.

He may be confusing the date the BE will stop issuing the letters, with the date they will be accepted.

That's his interpretation based on his own personal knowledge of the situation.

He has no formal confirmation from Bangkok one way or the other.

[Tanoshi]

32 minutes ago, gdhm said:

1) I have found several recent reports that some have had their account deactivated for no apparent reason or explanation and in a few cases whilst Transferwise were holding transferred funds.

 

2) The way they say they work work seems to suggest that they get their local branch in Thailand to actually transfer the amount to  Thai Accounts. If that is the case, will it not seem to Thai Imm. as though the funds came from funds form within Thailand rather than outside. If so this would not look good as it may seem like one is earning in Thailand.

1. You can transfer amounts up to 1K without proof of ID.

To send more than 1K you need to register and supply copies of your passport and proof of address to TW.

Those held transfers, are due to trying to send more than 1K without proof of ID.

The transfer is held until you supply the required ID.

 

2. Although it's paid locally into your Thai bank account, it shows as an FTT deposit in your passbook.

Foreign Telegraphic Transfer, proof the funds came from abroad.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Tanoshi

[steve73]

21 minutes ago, gdhm said:

Hi steve73,

Thanks for the info .  I have just looked into Transferwise and yes it would be cheapest method for me. However, I do have a couple of concerns:

1) I have found several recent reports that some have had their account deactivated for no apparent reason or explanation and in a few cases whilst Transferwise were holding transferred funds.

 

2) The way they say they work work seems to suggest that they get their local branch in Thailand to actually transfer the amount to  Thai Accounts. If that is the case, will it not seem to Thai Imm. as though the funds came from funds form within Thailand rather than outside. If so this would not look good as it may seem like one is earning in Thailand.

Maybe I am missing something in my understanding

 

1.) I've not seen any complaints about their service - not to say there haven't been any though.  They do tell you to use the UK (or other) account you use to register with them to make the payments from.. perhaps trying to use another account would cause problems... Or there may have been suspicion of fraudulent activity. 

2. ) You are correct - or that's my understanding as well - it arrives in your Thai bank as a local transfer.  I've been using them for around a year now (1 or 2k each time), sometimes it's described on my on-line statement as coming from a "Dummy Account", others as "International Transfer".  I'm not sure why it changes, but you can print a TW "transaction report" each time that clearly details the source of funds and destination, which would tie-in with your Thai bank statement.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

I suspect the BE here suffers the same issues as the rest of Thailand - that of FACE - so I wouldn't expect a back-track to be forthcoming.

I think the best we could expect from them would be to introduce a similarly worded "Stat Dec" that many of the other Embassies use.  But this could lead the Thais to look more closely at all these, and could well create problems for all.  And then they would have to make other changes.

As Stat decs were discontinued years ago (in favour of the current system to prevent the 12 hr trip to bkk & the security threat posed by a potentially attractive target) this is unlikely.

Edited October 17, 2018 by evadgib

[geoffbezoz]

2 hours ago, Esso49 said:

Fraud, you seem confused. You must be dreaming as my reply never used that word, rather it addressed a factual issue of fund availability.

 

The income method is my own preferred choice and it is simply done by me providing them (BE) with copies of my UK state pension statement,  copies of my other pension providers statements and/or P60s.   Very simple and factual as every single document has my NI number on it and my Thai address.  If they requested I could of course EMS the originals but the BE never request that only copies via emails. It would be good next time if Thai immigration would accept production of these original documents in lieu of the BE letter, but lets see next year.

 

 

Goes for me to.   Used the same method and docs

[blackhorse]

Fraud, you seem confused. You must be dreaming as my reply never used that word, rather it addressed a factual issue of fund availability.
 
The income method is my own preferred choice and it is simply done by me providing them (BE) with copies of my UK state pension statement,  copies of my other pension providers statements and/or P60s.   Very simple and factual as every single document has my NI number on it and my Thai address.  If they requested I could of course EMS the originals but the BE never request that only copies via emails. It would be good next time if Thai immigration would accept production of these original documents in lieu of the BE letter, but lets see next year.
 
 

"would be good next time if Thai immigration would accept production of these original documents in lieu of the BE letter, but lets see next year"

Sound like your dreaming! Let's see next year? lol

Your crazy if you think they would do anything especially after loss of face with bad press from the BE.

IF anything they will double down on the current systems in place.

[Esso49]

11 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

"would be good next time if Thai immigration would accept production of these original documents in lieu of the BE letter, but lets see next year"

Sound like your dreaming! Let's see next year? lol

Your crazy if you think they would do anything especially after loss of face with bad press from the BE.

IF anything they will double down on the current systems in place.

As I said "Let's see next year".