Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[SheungWan]

41 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Unfortunately going through the motions on financial matters is on the way out. The trend now is for further tightening, not less, and that is why forum contributors hoping for a return to the status quo ante are likely on a losing wicket.

 

39 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Minimum income 400/800k deposited over a year which equates to 40/65k a month would be ok if Immigration accepted this form of evidence either through a Bank Letter or as told by the BE Bank Statements. Sadly to date that is not an option.

On further reflection I don't think my idea above is going to fly as it treats the UK differently and therefore opens up more difficulties. Probably the deposited over a year idea is a better option to explore for the future though unlikely to cover the immediate period of the new year.

[bigginhill]

So. Thai immigration says to BE they want income verified, BE says we don't actually verify it. Immigration says can't accept income letter. BE says we only issued that.  So we will stop now

BE choices A) issue stat dec , what exactly is the problem ? The expat has to enter the embassy? Their embassy. And all other embassies must be issuing them, so it's the Brits getting very poor service from the only embassy that can't provide.

B) BE could have said that stat dec's are little different, as they are not verified and whilst they are being accepted the BE will continue to issue income letters

Maybe we can do a research of the what other countries offer to their citizens, to include to our letters to Hunt.

Edited October 18, 2018 by bigginhill
edit

[scotsman]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

People shouldn't be expected to plan their lives around wishing and hoping that Thai immigration policies/law is going to change just because the BE is promoting that (seemingly as a CYA tactic it seems to me). There is already a surefire way to transition from income method that will definitely work and requires no wishing or hoping. That is the money in a Thai bank method, kept at the minimum balance for your extension type, seasoned according to the rules.

Brits would be wise to forget about planning for monthly imports at this time. Instead plan to have that bank account method ready. Then nothing to worry about. 

Later, IF there is such a change, then that would be the time to plan for a policy that actually exists. 

I agree people should plan for the worst if they can find that large amount, but most that can't will just have to wait and see what unfolds. If there is nothing to unfold then most people who can't plan will only have 3 choices (1) leave (2) VA (3) borrow the funds for 3 months.  I shall wait and see what unfolds in the coming year and then make my choice.

Regards

Scotsman

[Pib]

4 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

A reply from the Embassy...

 

When withdrawing a service we do look at what other options are available to the customer to assist them in meeting the requirements of the receiving authority.  There is an alternative for customers to demonstrate that they meet the financial requirement for their retirement or marriage visa by holding a Thai bank account showing the minimum funds needed.   

 

To assist customers, our Embassy in Bangkok has published details on their website of the change in service and what option is available to customers and what those requirements are.  Further details can be found at:  

at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

 

Regards

 

Sarah Peth  Deputy Consul & Head of Operations

 

I find it interesting that although above refers you to the BE webpage that still talks "two" options: (1) Bt800K/400K money in a bank account option and (2) Bt65K/40K transferring into your bank account each month, where the BE response above states there "an alternative" as is only one option and that is the Bt800K/400K money in the bank option. 

 

It's almost like they are now beginning to walk-back where they have previously and basically said, Don't worry....just have a Bt65K/Bt40K amount transferring into your account each month and you don't need an income letter from us because that's how we interpret the Thai immigration website.

 

And above response also implies to me the BE is staying their current course of stopping the issue of income letters.   Besides, like in their response above the alternate of having Bt800/400K in the bank still exists.

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Minimum income 400/800k deposited over a year which equates to 40/65k a month would be ok if Immigration accepted this form of evidence either through a Bank Letter or as told by the BE Bank Statements. Sadly to date that is not an option.

Not true you only have to show 400/800 thousand for 3 months in either case and a letter the Thai bank confirming that is accepted by Thai Iimmigration that's what I have done for, 14 years. 

[Expattaff1308]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Not true you only have to show 400/800 thousand for 3 months in either case and a letter the Thai bank confirming that is accepted by Thai Iimmigration that's what I have done for, 14 years. 

Correct if you show the 400/800k for 3 mths but Im talking about the BE advising those of us that use the income route that Bank Statements showing an income of 40/65k per month is acceptable to Thai Imm..It is Not certainly in Udon anyway.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[JackThompson]

Topic is an issue with income-based extensions - but regarding the "In the Bank" method for Family-Based extensions - many are incorrectly stating the seasoning requirement: 

 

The 400K "in the bank" rule for family-based extensions only has a 2-month seasoning rule.  Many are saying 3 mo, which applies to consecutive retirement-based annual-extensions (the first retirement-based annual-extension requires only 2 months seasoning). 

 

Also note that one can get a 60-day "visit your Thai wife" extension without showing funds, if one has not done this since the initial Non-O entry or stamp, which could buy another 2 months of time to season funds.

 

Maybe this will help those cutting-it-close on getting that amount "in the bank" in time for their next family-based extension when/if unable to get an embassy letter. 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

My comment is not at all "unfair" - as the BE is the only embassy to adopt this attitude - to the detriment of their citizens living in Thailand using the income route.

It is not an attitude if the prognosis is correct.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, bigginhill said:

So. Thai immigration says to BE they want income verified, BE says we don't actually verify it. Immigration says can't accept income letter. BE says we only issued that.  So we will stop now

BE choices A) issue stat dec , what exactly is the problem ? The expat has to enter the embassy? Their embassy. And all other embassies must be issuing them, so it's the Brits getting very poor service from the only embassy that can't provide.

B) BE could have said that stat dec's are little different, as they are not verified and whilst they are being accepted the BE will continue to issue income letters

Maybe we can do a research of the what other countries offer to their citizens, to include to our letters to Hunt.

It is a sovereign matter. The cynicism actually is from those who want the BE to continue issuing bogus letters.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Correct if you show the 400/800k for 3 mths but Im talking about the BE advising those of us that use the income route that Bank Statements showing an income of 40/65k per month is acceptable to Thai Imm..It is Not certainly in Udon anyway.

OK apologies thought you didn't know. 

[White Tiger]

The petition is now live https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

And above response also implies to me the BE is staying their current course of stopping the issue of income letters.   Besides, like in their response above the alternate of having Bt800/400K in the bank still exists

Correct- but what the BE hasn't faced up is the fact that Thai Law/Tha Imm allows a person on retirement/Marriage to simply have a monthly stream of income in the amount of 65K per month or 40K per month.  The Thais have changed nothing.  They will still accept an Embassy letter.  Instead of the BE issuing the letter wiyh a disclaimer or moving to a Stat Dec- they have summarily said we are not issuing the letter which causes the British citizen with the only option FOR THEM as the money in the bank option while all the other Embassies continue the letter and their citizens can use the monthly option.

 

Yet- many posters have offered other options; other ways to do the letter. Where is the negotiation?  Why is the input of stakeholders not being considered?

 

[Expattaff1308]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

It is a sovereign matter. The cynicism actually is from those who want the BE to continue issuing bogus letters.

They are no more Bogus than other embassies providing Mr Expat can produce evidence to substantiate the amount stated on the letter

[Thaidream]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

t is a sovereign matter. The cynicism actually is from those who want the BE to continue issuing bogus letters.

You couldn't be more wrong- you are castigating everyone who has ever received a letter from the BE as a cheater.  While  there are always a minority that may  fabricate info-the majority of people are honest.  Try thinking positive sometimes.....

[jimn]

3 hours ago, bigginhill said:

BE choices A) issue stat dec , what exactly is the problem ? The expat has to enter the embassy? Their embassy. And all other embassies must be issuing them, so it's the Brits getting very poor service from the only embassy that can't provide.

Stat dec from the BE is a non starter. Firstly they have been moving away from personal visits for a while now thats why the income letter is only available online. They are moving to a smaller office. The last thing they want is hundreds of people showing up to have a stat dec witnessed.

[HHTel]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Absolutely correct- the email from the BE and their website do not match.  The BE could save face by saying they will continue to issue the letter with a disclaimer for  an indefinite period and further study the issue  . 

Read the small print at the bottom of the income letter.  It's already issued with a disclaimer.

[doctormann]

19 minutes ago, jimn said:

Stat dec from the BE is a non starter. Firstly they have been moving away from personal visits for a while now thats why the income letter is only available online. They are moving to a smaller office. The last thing they want is hundreds of people showing up to have a stat dec witnessed.

Maybe they could just outsource this to VFS, in the Trendy building.  Not ideal but all it would need would be for an approved lawyer/notary/whatever to be available there.

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, White Tiger said:

The petition is now live https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120 

Good luck with that.  You need 10,000 signatures just to get a response.  100,000 will afford it 'consideration' for a debate!

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

People shouldn't be expected to plan their lives around wishing and hoping that Thai immigration policies/law is going to change just because the BE is promoting that (seemingly as a CYA tactic it seems to me). There is already a surefire way to transition from income method that will definitely work and requires no wishing or hoping. That is the money in a Thai bank method, kept at the minimum balance for your extension type, seasoned according to the rules.

Brits would be wise to forget about planning for monthly imports at this time. Instead plan to have that bank account method ready. Then nothing to worry about. 

Later, IF there is such a change, then that would be the time to plan for a policy that actually exists. 

 

All this is fine IF you have the 800,000 baht that you can tie up. Many don't and I qualify on the income using the BE letter.

 

However as the BE no longer wishes to supply that letter what do I do now?

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Topic is an issue with income-based extensions - but regarding the "In the Bank" method for Family-Based extensions - many are incorrectly stating the seasoning requirement: 

 

The 400K "in the bank" rule for family-based extensions only has a 2-month seasoning rule.  Many are saying 3 mo, which applies to consecutive retirement-based annual-extensions (the first retirement-based annual-extension requires only 2 months seasoning). 

 

Also note that one can get a 60-day "visit your Thai wife" extension without showing funds, if one has not done this since the initial Non-O entry or stamp, which could buy another 2 months of time to season funds.

 

Maybe this will help those cutting-it-close on getting that amount "in the bank" in time for their next family-based extension when/if unable to get an embassy letter. 

This is precisely how I am planning to proceed since it is now "bye-bye retirement extensions" in my case thanks to the Embassy's decision.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, White Tiger said:

The petition is now live https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120 

 

I just signed up.

[rott]

On 10/16/2018 at 11:05 PM, Russell17au said:

But part of the problem is that The Brit ex-pat wont get off their backsides and do something positive they would prefer to sit around and whinge about it and hope that the Thai's will change things for them. I made suggestions on the starting thread about this. My suggestion was to get the email addresses of the minister responsible plus the shadow minister and any independent ministers plus several of the news media. You write an email about the problem and you send it to the minister involved and you make sure that you include in the cc: all the other ministers and the news media. If they get emails from 100, 200, 300 ex-pats then they might just take some notice. To complain to the embassy is a waste of time in my opinion. So it is up to you, the British ex-pats.

Well done Russell, good to see you do not miss a chance to pass a snide comment about Brits.

[HHTel]

Not counting border countries (and China), Brits form the largest number of expats here followed by the USA with half that number.  I can't believe that 100,00 British expats are going to be left high and dry with the only real solution being the lump sum (dead money) being in the bank.  I'm sure a workable alternative will emerge.

[blackhorse]

Read the small print at the bottom of the income letter.  It's already issued with a disclaimer.

Disclaimers rarely stand up in court but are used to bluff poor weak souls who buy into it.

[ukrules]

40 minutes ago, HHTel said:

I can't believe that 100,00 British expats are going to be left high and dry with the only real solution being the lump sum (dead money) being in the bank.

The embassy said about 3000 people apply for this letter each year, approximately 250 per month.

 

Immigration said about British people that about 50% of people use this embassy issued letter and 50% use the money in the bank method.

 

Where are you getting 100,000 from ? Based on what I've heard it's more like 6000 people in total and that includes both married and retirees.

[blackhorse]

The embassy said about 3000 people apply for this letter each year, approximately 250 per month.
 
Immigration said about British people that about 50% of people use this embassy issued letter and 50% use the money in the bank method.
 
Where are you getting 100,000 from ? Based on what I've heard it's more like 6000 people in total and that includes both married and retirees.

Numbers sound dodgy. I reckon I saw 6k of them in soi Buakhao alone today [emoji23]

[chickenslegs]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I just signed up.

Send the link to every Brit you know. Ask them to sign it if they agree.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120

Edited October 18, 2018 by chickenslegs

[chickenslegs]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

The embassy said about 3000 people apply for this letter each year, approximately 250 per month.

 

Immigration said about British people that about 50% of people use this embassy issued letter and 50% use the money in the bank method.

 

Where are you getting 100,000 from ? Based on what I've heard it's more like 6000 people in total and that includes both married and retirees.

10,000 is the number of British citizens who need to sign the petition in order to get a response from the government. They do not need to be directly affected by the BE decision, they just need to agree that the decision is wrong/unfair for British people living in Thailand and it needs to be reviewed.

 

100,000 is the number of British citizens who need to sign the petition in order to get it discussed in parliament. Personally, I do not think that is achievable.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120

Edited October 18, 2018 by chickenslegs

[SheungWan]

10 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

They are no more Bogus than other embassies providing Mr Expat can produce evidence to substantiate the amount stated on the letter

They are bogus going forward under the criteria requested by TI, other embassy practice notwithstanding. Not that those here arguing for continuation care one iota for the validation process. Due to lack of understanding or refusal? Now there's a question.

Edited October 18, 2018 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, Thaidream said:

You couldn't be more wrong- you are castigating everyone who has ever received a letter from the BE as a cheater.  While  there are always a minority that may  fabricate info-the majority of people are honest.  Try thinking positive sometimes.....

The only fabrication here is the imagined straw man argument (castigating.....) which is intellectually sloppy at best.