Saudi Arabia admits Khashoggi died in consulate, fires two senior officials

[klauskunkel]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

King Salman also ordered the formation of a ministerial committee headed by the crown prince to restructure the general intelligence agency, state media said.

so next time they torture someone to death they'll do it more intelligently?

[Brunolem]

55 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Rather, he brought his fists to a bone saw fight.  And was immediately disarmed by having them cut off.  But, we all know (except, it would seem, for Trump and his orange blossoms) the real story is he brought one man to a fifteen man ambush and was brutally murdered in a premeditated way.

Yet the Saudis were kind enough to have sent a doctor (MD, not PhD) to proceed with the dismembering.

 

The connection between said doctor and doctor Frankenstein has yet to be established.

 

Meanwhile, in order to limit the amount of mental suffering, the doctor and his 14 assistants were all provided headphones playing classical music during the surgical intervention (according to the Turkish recording).

 

A well planned operation if there ever was one...

Edited October 20, 2018 by Brunolem

[Kinnock]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

  It seems that it was a personal issue between the Prince and the journalist and the Prince is accountable .

   If the King have no knowledge of it , then the Saudi state cannot be held accountable .

This was the actions of a rogue Prince , rather than the Saudi state

Ah, that's all OK then.  An organization where any of the numerous Princes can use State property and official personnel to do whatever viscous and illegal activities they want, without the apparent knowledge of the leadership, is all fine and dandy.

 

Glad that's all cleared up.

 

Lets sell more tanks and planes to them, what could possibly go wrong.

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

  It seems that it was a personal issue between the Prince and the journalist and the Prince is accountable .

   If the King have no knowledge of it , then the Saudi state cannot be held accountable .

This was the actions of a rogue Prince , rather than the Saudi state

As anybody familiar with the situation knows, there is a concerted Saudi effort to suppress or buy back dissidents abroad.

‘Our Hands Can Reach You’: Khashoggi Case Shakes Saudi Dissidents Abroad

 

A Saudi women’s rights activist was driving in the United Arab Emirates when she was pulled over by security officers, thrown on a plane to Saudi Arabia and jailed.

In Canada, when a Saudi student refused to stop making YouTube videos criticizing the kingdom’s rulers, two of his brothers back home were imprisoned.

So when a prominent Saudi critic, Jamal Khashoggi, disappeared after entering the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul last week, it hardly surprised Saudi dissidents living abroad — until Turkish officials said they believed he had been killed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/world/middleeast/saudi-jamal-khashoggi-dissent.html

 

“The case of Jamal Khashoggi, unfortunately, is only the tip of the iceberg,” said Rami Khouri, a senior public policy fellow and professor of journalism at the American University of Beirut. “If it’s proven that the Saudi government is behind his disappearance, it would only be the most dramatic example of a trend that has been ongoing for at least 30 to 40 years, but which has escalated under MBS.”

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/12/jamal-khashoggi-saudi-arabia-dissidents/

And how do we know that the King had no awareness of it? You going to take his word for it? Or the investigation that he authorizes?

And what personal connection did MBS and Khashoggi share?  So how could it be a personal issue?

The only way it's personal is that there is no separation of royal personages and state in SA.

And you still haven't answered the fact that the Saudi explanation doesn't implicate MBS and Trump indicated he beleved it.

[sfokevin]

I am confused?... Did this fist fight break out before or after they cut off his fingers?... 

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, sfokevin said:

I am confused?... Did this fist fight break out before or after they cut off his fingers?... 

After they cut of his fingers, before they cut of his arms.

[Thailand]

27 minutes ago, sanemax said:

  It seems that it was a personal issue between the Prince and the journalist and the Prince is accountable .

   If the King have no knowledge of it , then the Saudi state cannot be held accountable .

This was the actions of a rogue Prince , rather than the Saudi state

And you have actually bought in to this story?

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Thailand said:

And you have actually bought in to this story?

Tell me what really happened then 

[owl sees all]

I think this 7 boxes thing is a bit of a red herring. Only six needed; two arms, two legs, head and body. Maybe his clothing was in the 7th.

 

RIP (rest in pieces) fella.

 

Sad day for world freedom.

Edited October 20, 2018 by owl sees all

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

I do not believe that Trump was "gaslighting" at all .

Trump spoke with the Saudi King who denied any involvement or knowledge of the killing and Trump believed that and came to a conclusion that it must have been a "rogue element" who was responsible , the orders didnt come directly from the King .

   It seems that the "rogue element" was the Prince , acting alone .

It seems like it was a personal feud between the Prince and the Journalist and thus it wasnt state sanctioned 

8

 

 

Trump was straight to the Saudi defence before he even knew the facts of the case dismissing any possibility of sanctions and in his own words regarding arms sales ' If we don't sell them to them, they will buy from the Russians or Chinese ' because that is all Trump is caring about. He then talks about American jobs at risk etc. If I was in the same position as him, I would probably have done the same. It's cold and cruel, but he is looking after US interests. At least he is doing it openly, unlike other US administrations previously.

 

I am not singling out Trump alone because we can expect a similar weak or limp response from UK and EU heads of government, showing their ' distaste ' by not sending representatives to the Saudi trade fair, which is all about ' face ' whereas behind the scenes it will be business as usual.

 

The Crown prince is now a loose cannon, with an ageing King who has chosen him as his successor and he is known to be the favourite. He has many a large number of errors already including the Yemen crisis, which he was warned to avoid. You can dismiss as Red Herrings any implication, as was attempted, to blame the Qataris, they wouldn't dare. Also, it has been proven the assassins arrived on private jets from the Saudi state, even down to the fact certain faces and their positions in Saudi government services have been identified.

 

It is only by the direct intervention of King Salman, that the threats of retaliation and an ' oil war ' against any sanctions or embargos has now died down and confrontation ebbed away. All this talk and threatening was coming from the Crown prince. He is definitely the' one ' who has ordered this as it has BEEN STATED MANY TIMES THIS SORT OF ACTION COULD NOT HAVE TAKEN PLACE WITHOUT ORDERS FROM THE VERY TOP. Any talk of modernizing Saudi Arabia will take place only at the whim and pleasure of the Crown prince running the place like they always have done, a fiefdom!

 

He has overstepped his mark and misjudged world reaction to this blatant act of nothing less than ' state terrorism ' taking place on the soil of another nation and disregarding international laws and placing himself above them.

 

They are a backwards-looking nation with barbaric laws and traditions and one of the main countries behind state-sponsored terrorist acts, including those committed on American soil by so called' rogue elements from Saudi ' who think oil money trumps everything, excuse the pun! and so it seems, it does!!

 

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Scouse123

[Proboscis]

5 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

 

new kingdom?

More like new crown prince

 

[harada]

I can see a few heads being lopped of here, before they get a chance to blab. ????

[sfokevin]

Something tells me this is not the first fist fight the florensic doctor has been in.., 

[Srikcir]

• Journalist Jamal Khashoggi died after a fight in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the country's state TV reported quoting an initial probe.
• It said deputy intelligence chief Ahmad al-Assiri and Saud al-Qahtani, senior aide to Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, were dismissed over the affair.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45923217

• Saudi Arabia has confirmed the death of missing Saudi journalist and Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, claiming he died in a fist fight involving more than a dozen Saudi officials at the country's consulate in Istanbul.
• After 18 days in which it insisted it had no involvement in the journalist's disappearance, Riyadh conceded that Khashoggi died as a result of the altercation after he had come to the consulate to obtain paperwork needed for his upcoming wedding.
• Five high-ranking officials have been removed from their posts, including the deputy head of the Saudi intelligence service, and 18 Saudis have been detained, state TV said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/19/world/saudi-arabia-khashoggi-intl/index.html

Yeah, when you have your fingers cut off, its hard to win a fight with just one person.

• A follow-up statement, released by the Saudi Arabian ministry of foreign affairs, claimed that discussions between Khashoggi and Saudi officials at the consulate “did not go as required and escalated negatively which led to a fight between them … and led to his death”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/19/jamal-khashoggi-dead-saudi-arabian-state-television-confirms

Trump finds the Saudi statements credible.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

you're right Trump just spoke as PR agent for the Saudis in this " drama/comedy"

 

Well, that's one way of putting it. Another would be Trump trying to make it go away as to preserve US interests. I think most US presidents would have done the same, if somewhat more elegantly.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Rotten nation and rotten people.....barbaric and primitive!

First they tell the world he left the consulate....now he died in a fight...and they expect the world to accept this explanation...well, Trump of course, will try and promote it!

 

Would the first line include the murdered journalist?

[Opl]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Well, that's one way of putting it. Another would be Trump trying to make it go away as to preserve US interests. I think most US presidents would have done the same, if somewhat more elegantly.

You're right too,  hopefully Trump took advantage of the situation, and made the Saudis pay an extra fee for the job done. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Opl

[wayned]

If the Truks actually had the consulate bugged with video also, I wonder how much they are asking the Saudis to make thse tape disappear?

[pegman]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

  It seems that it was a personal issue between the Prince and the journalist and the Prince is accountable .

   If the King have no knowledge of it , then the Saudi state cannot be held accountable .

This was the actions of a rogue Prince , rather than the Saudi state

So do we get a beheading of that rogue Prince? I can live with that.

Edited October 20, 2018 by pegman

[Sir Swagman]

So when does any form of death, that is not a premeditated murder, end up with no body? What a never ending load of self-serving crock pours out of politicians. As has been said before ‘politicians are like diapers, they both need to be changed regularly, for the same reason’.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Opl said:

You're right too,  hopefully Trump took advantage of the situation, and made the Saudis pay an extra fee for the job done. 

 

With regard to changing terms of deals signed and such probably not easy to do. The Kingdom agreeing to act on standing defense contract offers discussed - maybe yes, but probably not before more times passed, for appearances sake. Then there are "fees" which can be paid in diplomatic coin, and some occasions for such coming up. Of course, some nasty people could remark about Trump & Co. getting something out of this personally....

[Basil B]

OK wheres the Body???

 

A postmortem should not only determine how he died but how he was disposed of, most important factor being was it an intentional murder or did they go to far during interrogation, did they come prepared to dismember his body? is his head with the rest of his body or taken to Riyadh as a trophy?

Lot of questions... most importantly was it premeditated murder? 

[stevenl]

32 minutes ago, harada said:

I can see a few heads being lopped of here, before they get a chance to blab. ????

First one is gone already, car accident. Agree, more accidents will follow.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, wayned said:

If the Truks actually had the consulate bugged with video also, I wonder how much they are asking the Saudis to make thse tape disappear?

 

There's that. Overall, relative to Erdogan's usually fiery tirades on such occasions, he's being rather subdued on this one. If it was someone else, it could have been blamed on exposing the level of surveillance of a foreign diplomatic mission.

 

Despite relations between Turkey and SA being rocky, there's still trade, and the whole thing is a nice card to play if one needs regional concessions. Plus not overdoing it fits with US interests, and Turkey does need to patch things up with the US as well, so works on that front too.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Morch

[Rimmer]

off topic post and replies removed

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed.

[Opl]

2 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Rotten nation and rotten people.....barbaric and primitive!

First they tell the world he left the consulate....now he died in a fight...and they expect the world to accept this explanation...well, Trump of course, will try and promote it!

reasons for the West to support SA 

- oil,

- money ( Investments, contracts, imports , ..)

-stable regime (GDP growth, no famine or epidemics, complacency vis-à-vis Israel or even agreement, no questioning of US interference …)

+ MBS has already done worse

Edited October 20, 2018 by Opl

[trainman34014]

Quite clearly a damage limitation program is now underway by the Saudi's, arrests, removal of certain 'Officials' and there will soon be a few scapegoats lined up for head removal, as this murder of a writer was 'unauthorised' and a 'Rogue Act'....very naughty and we can't have the World thinking that a King or a Crown Prince would ever sanction such horrific acts.

 

All will be forgiven and on to the next atrocity !

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

  It seems that it was a personal issue between the Prince and the journalist and the Prince is accountable .

   If the King have no knowledge of it , then the Saudi state cannot be held accountable .

This was the actions of a rogue Prince , rather than the Saudi state

I would hold back on that until both the body is recovered and how it was transported. And BTW, the whole of the Embassy rogue?

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

And you have actually bought in to this story?

 

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Tell me what really happened then 

Your story clearly the top of the pile. ????

Edited October 20, 2018 by SheungWan