Scheme aims to shift farmers to corn from off-season rice

[anon2736434]

9 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Maybe if corn meal and potatoes were more common, Thais would discover all the different things you can do with them.  

You falang not understand thai culture. Ive said it before until they get rid of the stupid high import taxes and duties nothing is going to change, but then that would step on a lot of local big toes like kubota etc. who control the farming equipment and supplies markets. 

[zzaa09]

Why can't the Thais just be like us.

 

[Thian]

On 10/21/2018 at 5:36 AM, simoh1490 said:

Not a good solution from a pollution perspective, corn stubble when burned is one of the very worst air polluters.

In Europe they grow a lot of corn but i've never seen the stubbles getting burned...

[anon2736434]

4 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Why can't the Thais just be like us.

They dont have to be like us and nobody is asking them to be but the constant whining by farmers here about not making money and demanding money and protection from those bad falang countries gets kinda old when just adopting some small changes instead of clinging to their lazy outdated farming methods would increase their incomes dramatically.

[GinBoy2]

So, I posted a slide earlier regarding farm size.

I thought you farming types might be interested to the entire presentation. 

It's from 2015, but not much as changed. It was pretty interesting to me, even as a non farmer

nesdbmsladawan-150526024731-lva1-app6892.pdf

[simoh1490]

7 hours ago, Thian said:

In Europe they grow a lot of corn but i've never seen the stubbles getting burned...

That's because in Europe the farms are larger and wealthier and make extensive use of mechanisation, plus, there are laws against burning stubble that are actively enforced. Contrast that with small holdings in Thailand that operate at the subsistence level and without any mechanisation and where laws are not enforced, even a little bit.

[simoh1490]

9 hours ago, kickstart said:

This subject  of burning Mazie stubble has come up a few times on this thread ,I can say it is  no way like burning of sugar cane ,when maize is harvested a lot of the plant is still green ,when the combine cuts the plant plant the stubble is only 1 meter high ,and as I said still green ,when it is burnt you will be lucky to get a 50 % burn ,and that will not be a burnt to the ground, a lot of crops  have a lot of weed in them that is still green, and will not burn .

I see a lot of farmers trying to burn maize stubble and emphasize the trying bit, for half an hour they is a bit of smoke the farmer spends more time walking around the field trying to find patches to burn,a few will leave the stubble for a week to dry out ,but even then you do not get a good burn .

Most farmers harvesting they first crop need a quick turn around to get the next crop in, most cannot wait for the stubble to dry out, also it is still the rainy season, and a lot of crops are just to wet to burn.

When the second crop is harvested it will be the cool season, and that crops stubble will get ploughed in.

Back to tractors now days even with farm subsidies farm cost have to be kept down, and most large farms have less than half the labor now than say 20 years ago and that limited labor is used to the full effect, farmers buy large tractors and equipment ,a lot of farms no plowing is done just a one-pass machines ,now doing the work of 3 machines and 3 passes of a field ,the cost is high ,so is the output of these big machines ,it is the way to do things .

As I Said in my  last post Thai farmers are now direct drilling they crop ,most do not burn the previous crop straight in with the drill ,job done ,best thing to happen to Thai farming in years, reduces the input costs by half ,all they need now is a good price for the crop .

Labour in Thailand is very cheap and readily available, tractors of any kind are expensive and have short lifespans because they wont be maintained because that also is costly.

 

Up here in the North there's a lot of small farms/holdings in areas without road access, many are perched on hillsides and totally inaccessible by any form of mechanisation. These are traditional hill tribe farming communities and there are thousands of them and it's these farms that are responsible for the majority of the burning in the mountains, you could give them all brand new John Deere tractors for free and they wouldn't be able to use them. 

 

Finally, local culture and tradition is hard to break, most hilltribe farmers burn the ground because they believe it will stimulate the growth of mushrooms which is a prized cash crop and is often quite expensive to buy, if the farmers stopped burning there would be no mushrooms and that simply wont happen without rigid enforcement.

[simoh1490]

7 hours ago, Notagain said:

They dont have to be like us and nobody is asking them to be but the constant whining by farmers here about not making money and demanding money and protection from those bad falang countries gets kinda old when just adopting some small changes instead of clinging to their lazy outdated farming methods would increase their incomes dramatically.

you haven't thought this through, if the changes that would increase farmers incomes dramatically were small, they would have made them by now! 

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, attrayant said:

The large number of small holder farms is not helping matters either.  Large farms benefit from economies of scale.  In the states, one farmer fed about twenty people in 1950.  Today one farmer feeds nearly two hundred people.  I certainly don't envy farmers and the job they do.  There's a popular saying:

Do we really want big corporations owning all the land in Thailand, same as the USA?

I think not, I prefer a country where the general population own much of the farmland.

[Thian]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

That's because in Europe the farms are larger and wealthier and make extensive use of mechanisation, plus, there are laws against burning stubble that are actively enforced. Contrast that with small holdings in Thailand that operate at the subsistence level and without any mechanisation and where laws are not enforced, even a little bit.

If the Thai produce corn without taking care of the environment i bet the Europeans will never see it on their plates.

 

And yes the only way to grow corn is with machinery...it's about time thailand also goes big and automated.

 

 

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, Notagain said:

They dont have to be like us and nobody is asking them to be but the constant whining by farmers here about not making money and demanding money and protection from those bad falang countries gets kinda old when just adopting some small changes instead of clinging to their lazy outdated farming methods would increase their incomes dramatically.

It's what farmers do all over the world.

Next you'll be telling us the EU doesn't give all sorts of handouts to farmers.

[Scott]

A post with a misquote has been removed along with replies.  

[simoh1490]

12 minutes ago, Thian said:

If the Thai produce corn without taking care of the environment i bet the Europeans will never see it on their plates.

 

And yes the only way to grow corn is with machinery...it's about time thailand also goes big and automated.

 

 

2

Despite your name, you seem to have little appreciation or understanding of farming in Thailand and the obstacles farmers face.

[Thian]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

Despite your name, you seem to have little appreciation or understanding of farming in Thailand and the obstacles farmers face.

 

What does my name mean? I have no idea 555..

 

In Europe we ALL have to save the environment, polluting air is not done and for sure we won't buy any crops that do pollute. It would be a big scandal and the crop or whole country would be banned....thinking about it it amazes me that we still have Thai rice for which they burned the leftovers, that won't last long i guess. Not only do they pollute the air unneeded but they also hurt their own health.

 

Yes it's time Thailand grows up, they drive more new cars than us Europeans do so money isn't the issue..,they also follow european rules about fishing or won't be able to sell it..i guess same thing will happen with their rice, corn or whatever they grow.

 

I have an old Toyota Hi-ace in Europe which i have to get rid of because it's not allowed to be in my city anymore. (14 years old). It pollutes too much. I see plenty of brand new pickups which belong to farmers, they better had bought a good tractor..

 

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

10 minutes ago, Thian said:

 

What does my name mean? I have no idea 555..

 

In Europe we ALL have to save the environment, polluting air is not done and for sure we won't buy any crops that do pollute. It would be a big scandal and the crop or whole country would be banned....thinking about it it amazes me that we still have Thai rice for which they burned the leftovers, that won't last long i guess. Not only do they pollute the air unneeded but they also hurt their own health.

 

Yes it's time Thailand grows up, they drive more new cars than us Europeans do so money isn't the issue..,they also follow european rules about fishing or won't be able to sell it..i guess same thing will happen with their rice, corn or whatever they grow.

 

I have an old Toyota Hi-ace in Europe which i have to get rid of because it's not allowed to be in my city anymore. (14 years old). It pollutes too much. I see plenty of brand new pickups which belong to farmers, they better had bought a good tractor..

 

 

 

 

trying to compare the population of Europe or their characteristics and that of thailand is silly, education standards are far higher, Europe is far more developed, educational standards much higher, per capita wealth is much higher, enforcement is much more stringent, the list is endless. the average Thai farmer doesn't care that he's polluting the air, nor does he care that his crop or product can't be sold in Europe.....that's what you're up against here. 

[scorecard]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:06 AM, khwaibah said:

 

Are you going to provide the water for this project.????

Further, to really move forward all farmers need to be equipped with the knowledge and broad insight into what makes money / how to make money from farming and make their own calculated decisions.

 

I just hope at the farm level farmers don't feel intimidated / feel they have to obey or there will be consequences. In the past there have been many examples of officials 'ordering' farmers what to grow with disastrous results.

 

Guide them, provide them with data and knowledge and how to understand that data and let them / encourage them to make informed decisions. Are farmers ready to do that today? I'm sure many aren't and unfortunately in many cases their adult kids have moved to the city and not interested to engage.

 

A long hard road ahead.

 

 

[Kasset Tak]

The problem is the farmers and their mindset! I have talked to many about crop rotation and organic farming but that's not really solutions for Thailand. And why is that?! Because it means more work and less produce. And most farmers can't frankly see that not using expensive chemicals and in many cases have the possibility of getting a higher price for an organic product can actually be more profitable, they just think about the money they get when they sell their produce. 

I have even got answers like "I'm a rice farmer, I only know how to grow rice!", "Thai people eat rice, so I should grow rice." and "The price on rice is going down, so I need to use more chemicals and new seed varieties (Monsanto...) so I can produce more rice."!

 

Then it comes to the next thing, Thailand is importing soybeans and feed grains because there is not enough produced to feed the animals or keep the Thai soybean oil and soy sauce production going... 

[Thian]

30 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

trying to compare the population of Europe or their characteristics and that of thailand is silly, education standards are far higher, Europe is far more developed, educational standards much higher, per capita wealth is much higher, enforcement is much more stringent, the list is endless. the average Thai farmer doesn't care that he's polluting the air, nor does he care that his crop or product can't be sold in Europe.....that's what you're up against here. 

Well about fishing they sure care about the European opinion......or they won't sell any more fish....

 

And for education it's their own choice...they also won't learn trafficlaws or care about them.....with huge deadly results...

 

They can sell those big new pickups and buy machinery to produce crops at low costs...maybe also drink less lao kao and come out of the hammock to take care of their families...? Our farmers wake up at 4 am to work...

 

 

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Do we really want big corporations owning all the land in Thailand, same as the USA?

Maybe if you were being truthful.

"The 2012 US Census of Agriculture indicates that 5.06 percent of US farms are corporate farms. These include family corporations (4.51 percent) and non-family corporations (0.55 percent). Of the family farm corporations, 98 percent are small corporations, with 10 or fewer stockholders."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_farming

• What is referred to as "98 percent are small corporations" is somewhat inaccurate from a legal perspective. More likely it is "family limited partnerships whose partners hold undivided interests vs stock in the FLP. A FLP is simpler to maintain than a corporation with regard to record keeping while still having a partial benefit of a corporate liability shield.
• A family limited partnership (FLP) is a limited partnership with memberships/partnerships limited to family members.  FLPs offer a potential strategy for family farms to transition the farm on to the next generation.  It also provides a tax strategy to significantly reduce any applicable inheritance tax. https://agfax.com/2016/09/22/farm-business-family-limited-partnership-as-a-business-structure/

Your analogy to big US corporations is incorrect.

 

 

[simoh1490]

42 minutes ago, Thian said:

 

 

They can sell those big new pickups and buy machinery to produce crops at low costs...maybe also drink less arbitrarily kao and come out of the hammock to take care of their families...? Our farmers wake up at 4 am to workThailand

 

 

2

you can arbitrarily bash Thailand with your quips and it still won't improve your argument about farming in Thailand, two things that you seem to understand very little about! But here's a brain teaser for you: what incentive do the hundreds of thousands of small rice and corn farmers have to go out and get a loan for half a million baht or more for a tractor they will use for perhaps fifteen days every year.

[BritManToo]

54 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Then it comes to the next thing, Thailand is importing soybeans and feed grains because there is not enough produced to feed the animals or keep the Thai soybean oil and soy sauce production going... 

Spurious argument.

The Thai farmers that grow rice have no use for soy or feed. Why would they grow something they can't use and can't sell?

[Thian]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

you can arbitrarily bash Thailand with your quips and it still won't improve your argument about farming in Thailand, two things that you seem to understand very little about! But here's a brain teaser for you: what incentive do the hundreds of thousands of small rice and corn farmers have to go out and get a loan for half a million baht or more for a tractor they will use for perhaps fifteen days every year.

Well let them do what they like, i can't  be bothered....they can also build tractors in Thailand if they want.

[kickstart]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Spurious argument.

The Thai farmers that grow rice have no use for soy or feed. Why would they grow something they can't use and can't sell?

 Thailand has thriving pig, dairy and poultry industry and grows a lot of soya, mainly for the pig and poultry industry, and yes a lot of soya is imported, a lot is grown in country.

So far no one on this thread has said what happens to the maize /corn that is grown in Thailand, it all goes for livestock feed.

But, as CWL said rice fields are designed to keep water in, and only rice can be grown, so most farmers can not grow anything else, growing soya , corn would be farming suicide the crop would just rot in the water.   

Diversifying to other crops not easy, it can be done but the land work would be expensive.

[attrayant]

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Do we really want big corporations owning all the land in Thailand, same as the USA?  I think not, I prefer a country where the general population own much of the farmland.

 

Then you've locked the farming sector workers into a lifetime of stagnation and poverty.  Has something bad happened because developed countries have incorporated farms? 

 

Your statements are at odds with each other.  You say you prefer a country where the general population (I assume you mean the family) owns much of the farmland, but then you question the way it's done in the USA.  Well, 97-99% of the farms in the USA are family-owned.  From the USDA:

 

"Family farms play a dominant role in U.S. agriculture. In 2015, these farms accounted for 99 percent of U.S. farms and 89 percent of production. On family farms, the principal operators and their relatives (by blood or marriage) own more than half of the business’s assets—in short, a family owns and operates the farm."

 

Also, incorporation pushes farms into higher gear.  As far as farming goes, centralized operations are more efficient than distributed ones.