Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[HHTel]

3 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

Are you sure it's (very) different for farangs ?

French embassy statistics says that average age of French expats in Thailand is (only) 40.5 yo

so clearly there is not a majority of them on retirement and in fact many are here working.

I did say in my original post that the US and British embassies count for the majority of Western expats.  Never mentioned any other nationalities.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Quote

However the existing Police Order mentioning extension of retirement stay based upon 'evidence' of having income of no less than 65,000 baht per month has not been rescinded and is still in effect.

I'm not even sure where "income letters from your embassy" even shows up in police orders.....

 

But it apparently has become clear to Thai authorities that proof of income means zip -- if that income is not available in Thailand. Too many vagrants with income letters wandering around. Easy solution? Show that the stipulated amount of money has arrived on Thai shores (and forget ATM slips, as that's too unwieldy). This is what the British and American embassies have been told.

So if the Police Order is still in effect for the monthly income route, and the affidavit from the Embassy has been disallowed, Thai IMM has to come up with SOME way to implement the monthly income option of the Police Order.

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, garyk said:

With all due respect. 114 pages on this thread with only one piece of information. That is the American Embassy will stop issuing letters.

Personally I think it is disgraceful that TI has not responded to this in any way shape or form. 

Extremely poor way to do business, and a lack of respect for the expat community is appalling IMO.

 

My guess is that they're still figuring out how to respond.

[eggers]

On 10/26/2018 at 4:24 PM, ukrules said:

This is the exact reason why the British and US Embassies are stopping the service.

 

Just because the Aussie Embassy don't realise it yet doesn't mean they won't be affected.

What do you mean "....because AUS Embassy don't realise...". In speaking with a senior consul, they were v certain they're not dropping Notary service!!!.. Are you certain of what you say??  Who's your source or just giving an opinion?? 

Edited October 31, 2018 by eggers

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, hwaetu Go said:

Thanks to Mike TeaV and Crab for responding with the following (see below). Does this mean then that the monthly income must come into a Thai bank each month ex. to show the equivalent of 65,000 baht over the previous 6 months? I now have a three month non-o visa due Jan 3, for which I believe I can get one or more  extensions. You mentioned getting an "income letter" which has 6 month validity. What is that? The Embassy I herd is not providing that now, correct?

 

So, what does this mean to those who actually have monthly income coming in from income abroad (example rentals (not retirement pension) totaling the monthly 65K baht figure afore necessary? 

To save you reading the previous 111 pages...

• In short, nobody knows for sure yet
• Both the British & US Embassies have said that you'll be able to use proof of deposits into a Thai Bank account, the source & frequency requirements for these are not known yet
• Both Embassies will issue Certificate of Income up to the end of the year (For British Embassy you need to get your request in by 12th December) & Thai Immigration have said they will accept them up to 6 months after issue date.

So if you're planning on using the income method & your renewal is due before the end of July (Mid August in some places) it would be prudent to get your Income letter this year (obviously being mindful of the 6 month validity period, don't get it now if you're renewal is due after 1st June) otherwise make whatever contingency plans you feel are appropriate for you to mitigate against the risk of not being able to use proof of income.

 

Or just ignore it & deal with things when the time comes... 

 

How were you planning on extending?

 

If you plan on using the income method then certificates are still available to the end of the year, assuming you're from the US you'll need to make an appointment online then go in to complete a Statutory Declaration form on which you'll provide details of your income which the US Embassy won't verify (they only verify your identity & attest that you were the person signing the form) but I would strongly advise you only include income that you can prove on there in case Immigration want to see the supporting documents.

 

British Embassy is done via email & Australian Embassy is same as the US.

 

You can extend your visa (technically you're extending your permission to stay) 30 (45 in some places) days before it's due so I would recommend getting the Income Certificate over the next few weeks then extending early December (End date of the Extension will still be 3rd January 2020 whether you extend 3rd of December or 3rd January but you want to give yourself some breathing space in case you need additional documents)

 

 

 

 

 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, garyk said:

Personally I think it is disgraceful that TI has not responded to this in any way shape or form. 

Extremely poor way to do business, and a lack of respect for the expat community is appalling IMO.

Not responded to what? And to who?

AFAIK nobody officially asked anything to TI, so I don't see why they would have to react in any way.

 

IMHO UK & USA Embassies should have contacted TI first

and asked for an exact written answer about changes of rules to come (if any exist...)

but they should have done that BEFORE the posts they made on their website.

[anon2736434]

You can say what you want but I still believe this is just an easy way to get a lot of money into the broke ass thai economy and banking system. 

[AGareth2]

45 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So if the Police Order is still in effect for the monthly income route, and the affidavit from the Embassy has been disallowed, Thai IMM has to come up with SOME way to implement the monthly income option of the Police Order.

or refuse

[anon2736434]

5 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

or refuse

You Go, No visa !

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, Notagain said:

You can say what you want but I still believe this is just an easy way to get a lot of money into the broke ass thai economy and banking system. 

You wish your country could do half as good with GDP and Banking Foreign reserves.

[JLCrab]

15 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

or refuse

So they could then also disallow the 800K in the bank route and just say no more extensions -- get a new visa from Ministry Foreign Affairs or go home.

 

At least with the 65K monthly in the Thai bank route you get to spend the money in the Thai population at large -- with the 800K in the bank route that money is essentially dormant as anything you spend has to be topped up for the next year's extension.

Edited October 31, 2018 by JLCrab

[onera1961]

13 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

So if the Police Order is still in effect for the monthly income route, and the affidavit from the Embassy has been disallowed, Thai IMM has to come up with SOME way to implement the monthly income option of the Police Order.

Thai immigration may simply ignore unless all embassies adopt the same policies. They are glad to accept embassy letter but BE and US embassies have so far capitulated to their demands of income verification. I think it is embassies faults. 

[jimn]

5 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

I don't know if this is the case with him, but some US ATM cards do not charge foreign ATM fees and reimburse if the foreign bank charges an ATM fee.

 

Some Asian banks do not charge ATM fees when one withdraws with a US ATM card - at least HSBC and Maybank in Malaysia don't.

Thanks for your comment Jimmy. However it is my experience that all Thai bank atms always charge 220 baht withdrwal fee on overseas cards.

[JLCrab]

8 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

BE and US embassies have so far capitulated to their demands of income verification. I think it is embassies faults. 

I don't know about the Brits but it is US Department of State policy at its embassies and consulates at about 200 countries worldwide that those embassies and consulates cannot verify the authenticity of any document presented to it within that country. Nothing special about Thailand.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

So if the Police Order is still in effect for the monthly income route, and the affidavit from the Embassy has been disallowed, Thai IMM has to come up with SOME way to implement the monthly income option of the Police Order.

If Thai Immigration was started to refuse letters, then yes we could thing that they have to come with some other way, but they don't refuse letter and nothing says they will one day refuse letters, so they is no reason that they have to do something.

Your embassy created the problem; your embassy has to negotiate to find another way.

 

Edit: I only see now @onera1961's post #1724 on previous page. We agree 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Pattaya46

[Thaidream]

11 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

hai immigration may simply ignore unless all embassies adopt the same policies. They are glad to accept embassy letter but BE and US embassies have so far capitulated to their demands of income verification. I think it is embassies faults. 

I agree= all they had to do is say we can only do what we are doing now and explain the  process and say we will keep providing the letter as stated. Thai Imm you can always ask our citizens for added proof.  Then -the ball is in Thai Imms court- they can accept the letter or say no.

 

The Australian Embassy place a disclaimer on its website indicating they do not issue income letters but declarations and will continue to do so.  Good on them- that was the proper decision to make.   I am sure they attended the same meting the BE and US attended.

 

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Your embassy created the problem; your embassy has to negotiate to find another way.

Who knows but if your 'another way' is that the US Embassy has to start to verify documents, ain't gonna happen.

 

But right now if there is not the monthly 65K baht transfer from US bank to your Thai bank route, then the O-A in the USA looks pretty good or the Thailand Elite for 5 years and even though not my preferred route 800K in a Thai bank is doable so to me not the end of the world -- plus I'm already extended through end of 2019.

 

... but keep those horror stories what-if scenarios coming.

Edited October 31, 2018 by JLCrab

[bkk6060]

34 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So they could then also disallow the 800K in the bank route and just say no more extensions -- get a new visa from Ministry Foreign Affairs or go home.

 

At least with the 65K monthly in the Thai bank route you get to spend the money in the Thai population at large -- with the 800K in the bank route that money is essentially dormant as anything you spend has to be topped up for the next year's extension.

That is part of the problem.

The 65,000 b has never been required to be in a Thai bank.

As I said before, on the big picture I think they want you to show your money here.

The 800,000 b does that.

I believe the monthly requirement will disappear.

They cannot waste their time with some forensic investigation into all the ways to show income.

So I bet either you got it, or you don´t...

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

They cannot waste their time with some forensic investigation into all the ways to show income.

So I bet either you got it, or you don´t...

Hey if they decide that to show 12 monthly deposits of 65K baht in a Thai bank account passbook with the international transfer code is doable, then great. I'd like use it if.

 

If not, then I really don't care. Thank you. Go bet with someone else.

[JimGant]

Quote

Hey if they decide that to show 12 monthly deposits of 65K baht in a Thai bank account passbook with the international transfer code is doable, then great.

That's the option that makes the most sense -- from their perspective. Or, 780k deposit up front. Or, 2 deposits of 390k every 6 months. Or, with a 300k fixed deposit, 42k every month..... blah blah blah. Very simple. Of course, withdrawals from your account going back across the ocean would come with demerits.

[JLCrab]

But you can just borrow the 800K for 3 months so that has its demerits too.

[Ebumbu]

Have all US embassies stopped the income affidavit? What would prevent a US citizen from going to the US embassy in Malaysia, Cambodia, or Laos to get an income affidavit certified? Is my suggestion wacky? It's the same letter, from a US embassy. What am I missing? It's not addressed to Thailand specifically, true. Will they just reject it out of hand? 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Have all US embassies stopped the income affidavit? What would prevent a US citizen from going to the US embassy in Malaysia, Cambodia, or Laos to get an income affidavit certified? Is my suggestion wacky? It's the same letter, from a US embassy. What am I missing? It's not addressed to Thailand specifically, true. Will they just reject it out of hand? 

Immigration wants to see a document from an embassy in Thailand. People have asked about doing a income affidavit at the US in Vientiane and were told it would not be accepted.

[JimGant]

Quote

But you can just borrow the 800K for 3 months so that has its demerits too

Yeah, but it gives the Thai hospital you stiffed 3 months to attach to your assets.

[Pib]

 

From the U.S. Embassy Vientiane website.  Summary: as already said by ubonjoe above, no can do.

https://la.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/notaries-public/

Edited October 31, 2018 by Pib

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, jimn said:

Thanks for your comment Jimmy. However it is my experience that all Thai bank atms always charge 220 baht withdrwal fee on overseas cards.

I believe the Charles Schwab card refunds local ATM fees at the end of each month

[Thaidream]

13 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

believe the Charles Schwab card refunds local ATM fees at the end of each mont

Yes- many Us banks have special deals on charges if you are a veteran or in the military-  I use US debit cards- today when I took out 30K-  the last 4 digits of my debit card were imprinted on the ATM receipt with the balance- very easy to show Thai Imm on the date of extension- how much you have in the bank and how much you took out. Will they accept this-who knows but to me it beats an Embassy Letter. 

[galt67]

4 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Charles Schwab ATM card reimburses ATM fees. Besides, that I don't know any other US banks. can you name a few. I have ATM cards for all major US banks like Citi (no fee at their ATMs in Bangkok), Capital One, BofA, Chase, Ally, 

1

Chase Bank does for 'Sapphire Banking' customers. Need to have $75k+ total, in checking/saving/brokerage. 'Private Banking' customers MIGHT(?) be the same.

[flexomike]

4 hours ago, esqy said:

More dismal news about recurring paperwork for those individuals who will keep more than $10,000 in a foreign bank account and file US income taxes. 

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

 

 

no big deal can do it on the internet in a short period of time

 

[ukrules]

I will summarise a post I read on some 'Hua Hin' facebook group yesterday :

 

Picked up a 1 year stamp from Hua Hin Immigration yesterday, the officer said that next year will need to show 400k funds in the bank instead of monthly income + embassy letter...

 

He then went on to mention that he'd better start saving up for next years extension...presumably because he's using the income method now. Others chimed in confirming the same had happened to them recently.

 

Someone else said "I asked about a monthly transfer of money into my Thai account but he said no."

 

So there you have it - money in the bank only from Hua Hin immigration, two days ago.

 

The message is clear : Start saving or pack your bags...