The 800'000 Bht obstacle

[marcusarelus]

35 minutes ago, poohy said:

Oh for gods sake......English comprehension is not your strong point is it!! 800 USD is cost of health insurance

 

"At 68, I cannot afford the prices they expect for health insurance.  If I am expected to pay 800 dollars or more per month, any economic advantage is pretty much wiped out. "

 

Once again he making a fair but not hideously anti Thai comment

Tis you who have missed the point.  Where did the 800 dollars come from?  No one has said that insurance costs 800 dollars.  And why quote Thai insurance in American dollars?  Nothing in this thread is about American dollars.  He said the post was about living at 800,000 but it is mentioned nowhere in his post. 

[EVENKEEL]

So, a sort of silver lining for some is it's an awesome way to hit the trail honorably, you know.....go out for a pack of smokes and not return. Sorry Sheilla but.....I can't stay, you know those bastard Immigration people.

I see light bulbs turning on.....

 

 

[NCC1701A]

9 hours ago, swissie said:

most readers will consider the above as a comment from an "aloof" smart ass.

six years ago when I had just joined this forum I innocently said "If you don't have 800,000 baht in cash in the bank you are not ready to retire."

 

Back then I was really surprised at the firestorm my comment set off. 

 

And still now having read all the comments on the other threads I see many people here don't have it, or don't trust Thai banks or feel the money is "dead" in a Thai bank.

 

I have been talking about my 800,000 baht as a source of in country emergency money, small diversification, the peace of mind of having a years worth of money to operate with and the main reason of the convenience of not have to worry about the immigration requirement too much, just one letter from the bank.   
 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Tis you who have missed the point.  Where did the 800 dollars come from?  No one has said that insurance costs 800 dollars.  And why quote Thai insurance in American dollars?  Nothing in this thread is about American dollars.  He said the post was about living at 800,000 but it is mentioned nowhere in his post. 

The OP said that's what health insurance would cost him at his age. Does it really matter if it's in dollars or baht? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The OP said that's what health insurance would cost him at his age. Does it really matter if it's in dollars or baht? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

He wrote, " If I am expected to pay 800 dollars or more per month, any economic advantage is pretty much wiped out "  Who expects him to pay that?  The government?  America?  UK?  I don't know where the number comes from and he makes no mention of why 800.  Who expects him to pay that and what happens if he dosen't pay it?  I don't know do you? 

[connda]

9 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

As you rightly say swissie, 24000USD or £19000 is hardly a fortune these days. If pensioners over 50 cannot afford this amount to remain in the country, then I have to ask; what have they been doing all their lives?

Prior to the global banks nearly going bust in 2008 and then receiving government printed 'free money' from the Fed and dropping interests rates to zero or below, a pensioner living on a fix income received a decent return on fix-income savings.  And then they received nothing, so instead of their money earning interest that could be used to live on, they now burn through their savings.  So being left with less than "24000USD or £19000" out of a nest egg that may have been in excess of 100,000 USD ten years prior is probably not that unusual.  
Ah, no doubt we'll hear "you should have invested in stocks!".  Of course, just like we did in 1987, 2001, and 2008.  You can only take so many haircuts before you get risk averse.  Personally I'd be rich if I had what I lost in those crashes.  Yeah, if we had a crystal ball or were privy to the same inside information as hedge funds, of course all would be wonderful.  But a lot of pensioners probably had become risk adverse and socked their money into relatively safe investments that have earned squat.  Thank you central banks.
You know - the winds of fate are as fickle as hell my friends.  So all you guys out there smiling and gloating today?  Are you still going to be all smug and grins after the next financial downturn?
Whatever - eat, drink, and be merry...............

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Prior to the global banks nearly going bust in 2008 and then receiving government printed 'free money' from the Fed and dropping interests rates to zero or below, a pensioner living on a fix income received a decent return on fix-income savings.  And then they received nothing, so instead of their money earning interest that could be used to live on, they now burn through their savings.  So being left with less than "24000USD or £19000" out of a nest egg that may have been in excess of 100,000 USD ten years prior is probably not that unusual.  
Ah, no doubt we'll hear "you should have invested in stocks!".  Of course, just like we did in 1987, 2001, and 2008.  You can only take so many haircuts before you get risk averse.  Personally I'd be rich if I had what I lost in those crashes.  Yeah, if we had a crystal ball or were privy to the same inside information as hedge funds, of course all would be wonderful.  But a lot of pensioners probably had become risk adverse and socked their money into relatively safe investments that have earned squat.  Thank you central banks.
You know - the winds of fate are as fickle as hell my friends.  So all you guys out there smiling and gloating today?  Are you still going to be all smug and grins after the next financial downturn?
Whatever - eat, drink, and be merry...............

I don't really understand.  You had $100,000 in a Thai or American bank or stock market in 2001 and now it is only worth $24,000?  Dow was 12,000 in 2000 and now it's 26,000 how is that a loss?  No one lost money in a bank. 

[JAFO]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Cannot own land is a plus.  Read about all the poor fellows who get fleeced without being able to buy land.  Land ownership would triple the amount of scams.  Thailand has great medical infrastructure and farang friendly rental and restaurants and grocery stores.  What do I get?  wife, food, housing, medical care all at a price about half of what I paid in America.  Good deal to me. 

I agree. Most home owners in the states fool themselves into believing they can own the land in the states. Either a Bank or the government does because if you do not pay property tax (even if your house is paid in full) the US govt will put a lien on it and can force you out plus all the fines and fees on back taxes for not filing and paying. I honestly felt having my wife own the land is better and in the end helps her and not a bank. Some folks whinge and make it seem like owning the land here is a big cash outlay. Its not very expensive in the big picture. 

 

But as you posted Marcusarelus, What do I get in return, wonderful wife, good food, a very nice home, easy life, medical coverage under her policy and all of that for a fraction of what it would cost me to do the same in the states plus we got to retire early.

In fact over the last 2 days I went and had my teeth cleaned for ~ 420 bht (~$10),  Paid Govt annual land fee which was a whopping 38bht ($1.21) and bi monthly garbage pick up for a year 120 bht (~$4). 

 

 

[Pedrogaz]

I think the OPs post is spot on.

But I always say don't bring money to Thailand that you can't afford to lose. I certainly would not want to live in Thailand if I could not afford to lose 800K Baht. What would happen if you had an emergency and your funds were overseas...or you didn't have much in the way of funds and had to do a crowdfunding thing like these poor souls that have accidents here and have no insurance.

IMHO Thailand isn't a particularly cheap place to live. Food costs much less in the UK and the booze is cheaper than Thailand in supermarkets (but not in pubs). Housing and rents are cheaper here, but if you are over 50 it is highly likely that you will have already paid off your mortgage in your home country, so housing will be cheap for you there as well (assuming you own your own home). Cars are more expensive here and for a worse equipped car than in the UK or US, although pick ups are slightly cheaper but again are not as well equipped. So as far as major expenses go, its cheaper in the UK or US.

The worries about the banks are silly.....the deposits are insured and if the bank goes bust you will be insured fr the loss of your deposit up to a sum greater than 800K Baht. To be prudent you might want to put the money in a bank account that does not have an ATM card attached to it. I have one of my pensions paid directly into Bangkok Bank in an account with no ATM....that way I know I will always have more than 800K in that account, irrespective of what happens to other accounts.

[scubascuba3]

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

 

 

 

Criminals are still welcomed with open arms, plus a lot of guys with money are complete ar*eholes.

 

I'd like them to deny entry to people with criminal records and those who are ar*eholes

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't really understand.  You had $100,000 in a Thai or American bank or stock market in 2001 and now it is only worth $24,000?  Dow was 12,000 in 2000 and now it's 26,000 how is that a loss?  No one lost money in a bank. 

The sharemarket is not uniform. If it was, the growth in the All Ordinaries, Nasdaq, Dow or whatever index is chosen would mean everyone could sleep well at night.

As an example, Macqarie Bank in Australia was $90 a share in 2007. Come the GFC in 2008, it crashed to less than $20 a share. It's now above $100 a share, but not before a lot of people ( not including me ) got badly burnt. Many didn't actually own shares, the were selling put options and contracts for difference. I had a friend ( deceased now ) who lost 2.7 million AUD selling puts on the banks. He reckoned it was money for jam.

[TEFLKrabi]

If you were allowed to own a plot of land no larger than 1 rai and that could be used as collateral for the B800k, life would be so much easier. 

[wwest5829]

10 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Good post, swissie and my thoughts exactly.

 

The Thai government will welcome westerners if they feel are going to be of benefit to the country, one being, they want their money invested in Thailand and not abroad. Thailand is not a charitable kingdom to accommodate cheap charlies that are considered poor in their own countries that owes them a better quality lifestyle. To be given something, one has to give something back in return. 

 

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

 

As you rightly say swissie, 24000USD or £19000 is hardly a fortune these days. If pensioners over 50 cannot afford this amount to remain in the country, then I have to ask; what have they been doing all their lives?

Yeah, well...no. Yes, I could bring 800,000 to deposit in a Thai bank. No, I will not be doing so. My funds will remain invested and continuing to generate growth in a country that has some security for my investments. Additionally, it is my judgement and decision that as a retiree, when I croak, I want it as easy as possible for my Sons to access their inheritance. Same reasoning as not “owning” property in Thailand when I go up the local Wat chimney as smoke. I access $2400.00 a month to support my middle class retirement here. I maintain some savings in a separate account which will go to my significant other here in Thailand when I croak. Thus, it is my choice to keep funds separate. What comes to Thailand, stays in Thailand .... works for me.

[thaikahuna]

To be sure, $24K USD is not a fortune in the grand scheme of things. That said, there is a fair portion of the ex-pat community that do have the minimum required and then some each month. Many others like me are not liquid enough to be able to plunk 800K THB in a Thai bank for the sole purpose of letting sit to qualify for a visa. I am happy to show where I bring in over 50K THB monthly to my Thai bank account by direct deposit. I also do international wire transfer and can show at least another 15K THB in credit card receipts each month.

 

The whole issue at this juncture is for the people running the immigration department to tell us not just what they want but how they want it and what verification form(s) will be accepted.

[alex8912]

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Yeah, the Vietnam and Mexico runners clearly have millions.

 

Millions of ideas that is.

Noooo. They have millions of Vietnamese dong!! So they aren’t really lying. 

[Lacessit]

I don't have a problem with the 800,000 baht requirement. My problem is with the BS seasoning rules.

Let's say, for example, I have 400,000 dollars back in Australia. I transfer $50,000 to a Thai bank account a couple of days before my extension is due. I can even show Thai Immigration a statement detailing my asset worth and income in Australia, courtesy of Centrelink.

Why is it so sodding hard for Thai officials to work out I am financially solvent, have more than the required amount in a Thai bank, and will obviously contribute to the Thai economy? Sorry, I'm being logical. Rant over.

[Lacessit]

25 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Criminals are still welcomed with open arms, plus a lot of guys with money are complete ar*eholes.

 

I'd like them to deny entry to people with criminal records and those who are ar*eholes

 

 

 

I'm interested in the screening tests you would like them to apply.

[Ban Phe Dezza]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, a sort of silver lining for some is it's an awesome way to hit the trail honorably, you know.....go out for a pack of smokes and not return. Sorry Sheilla but.....I can't stay, you know those bastard Immigration people.

I see light bulbs turning on.....

 

 

thought about it 

 

[Ban Phe Dezza]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Prior to the global banks nearly going bust in 2008 and then receiving government printed 'free money' from the Fed and dropping interests rates to zero or below, a pensioner living on a fix income received a decent return on fix-income savings.  And then they received nothing, so instead of their money earning interest that could be used to live on, they now burn through their savings.  So being left with less than "24000USD or £19000" out of a nest egg that may have been in excess of 100,000 USD ten years prior is probably not that unusual.  
Ah, no doubt we'll hear "you should have invested in stocks!".  Of course, just like we did in 1987, 2001, and 2008.  You can only take so many haircuts before you get risk averse.  Personally I'd be rich if I had what I lost in those crashes.  Yeah, if we had a crystal ball or were privy to the same inside information as hedge funds, of course all would be wonderful.  But a lot of pensioners probably had become risk adverse and socked their money into relatively safe investments that have earned squat.  Thank you central banks.
You know - the winds of fate are as fickle as hell my friends.  So all you guys out there smiling and gloating today?  Are you still going to be all smug and grins after the next financial downturn?
Whatever - eat, drink, and be merry...............

many have lost sight of the fact that incomes have dropped due to Lousy exchange rates especially Brits and Aussies

Edited October 27, 2018 by Ban Phe Dezza
correct spelling

[poohy]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

He wrote, " If I am expected to pay 800 dollars or more per month, any economic advantage is pretty much wiped out "  Who expects him to pay that?  The government?  America?  UK?  I don't know where the number comes from and he makes no mention of why 800.  Who expects him to pay that and what happens if he dosen't pay it?  I don't know do you? 

 

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

"At 68, I cannot afford the prices they expect for health insurance.  If I am expected to pay 800 dollars or more per month, any economic advantage is pretty much wiped out. "

Well! we obviously cant understand what is written for you so best if you re read it slowly

 

First sentence explains cost will be for his health insurance at 68 ... second sentence refers to how much it will cost per month (this can in mentioned in any currency and the esteemed reader can use a calculator (thats a plastic box you just push the numbers) to convert it THB or any other currency)

I really hope this helps you if necessary you can print this out and ask a boy scout to explain ????

Edited October 27, 2018 by poohy

[natway09]

Horror stories about Thai Banks ???

I think this is an over reaction & an excuse not to deposit 800,000 Bht into an account.

i have dealt (& still do) with 4 banks & can honestly say that they have been very good.

As to their equity the big 5 here are as safe as any bank in the world

[JAFO]

49 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

What would happen if you had an emergency and your funds were overseas...or you didn't have much in the way of funds and had to do a crowdfunding thing like these poor souls that have accidents here and have no insurance.

Most expats I know have credit cards for accts both here and back in their home countries.  Easy to get treatment started and work out the other details later.  

 

But to the point of the OP, having 800k baht here isn't a big deal.  If expats don't have that money available then they are living on what appears to be a wing and a prayer.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

The sharemarket is not uniform. If it was, the growth in the All Ordinaries, Nasdaq, Dow or whatever index is chosen would mean everyone could sleep well at night.

As an example, Macqarie Bank in Australia was $90 a share in 2007. Come the GFC in 2008, it crashed to less than $20 a share. It's now above $100 a share, but not before a lot of people ( not including me ) got badly burnt. Many didn't actually own shares, the were selling put options and contracts for difference. I had a friend ( deceased now ) who lost 2.7 million AUD selling puts on the banks. He reckoned it was money for jam.

Buy the DOW or Nasdaq.  No problem.  If you are buying options and puts and calls you are betting like a racetrack and you deserve what you get.  Don't tell me to feel sorry for fools. 

[scubascuba3]

I'm interested in the screening tests you would like them to apply.

For Aholes that's easy, for starters have a look through this forum to pick out a high number, secondly a quick interview the Ahole will reveal themselves usually within a minute

[Esso49]

50 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't have a problem with the 800,000 baht requirement. My problem is with the BS seasoning rules.

Let's say, for example, I have 400,000 dollars back in Australia. I transfer $50,000 to a Thai bank account a couple of days before my extension is due. I can even show Thai Immigration a statement detailing my asset worth and income in Australia, courtesy of Centrelink.

Why is it so sodding hard for Thai officials to work out I am financially solvent, have more than the required amount in a Thai bank, and will obviously contribute to the Thai economy? Sorry, I'm being logical. Rant over.

Your logic is not what this is about. It is about meeting the rules laid down by your host country.

[marcusarelus]

26 minutes ago, poohy said:

 

Well! we obviously cant understand what is written for you so best if you re read it slowly

 

First sentence explains cost will be for his health insurance at 68 ... second sentence refers to how much it will cost per month (this can in mentioned in any currency and the esteemed reader can use a calculator (thats a plastic box you just push the numbers) to convert it THB or any other currency)

I really hope this helps you if necessary you can print this out and ask a boy scout to explain ????

First sentence, " It is already obvious that Thailand will eventually force me to move to a place where I can afford to buy into the local healthcare plan. Places such as Costa Rica and Mexico have such plans and so does Colombia. The ability to get along with only English was the deciding factor in retiring here.At 68, I cannot afford the prices they expect for health insurance.  If I am expected to pay 800 dollars or more per month, any economic advantage is pretty much wiped out."

 

He writes, "I cannot afford the prices they expect for health insurance."  Who is they? 

 

Who expects him to pay 800 a month?  Why 800?  What health care company?  What kind of coverage? 

 

The currency here is baht.  Do you really think to understand a post I should have to pull up a currency converter and check the daily rate?  No way. 

 

This is Thailand the thread is about 800,000 baht.  Quote the prices in baht and tell me who, what, why, where, and when you were asked to pay 27,000 baht a month for health insurance. 

[marcusarelus]

57 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't have a problem with the 800,000 baht requirement. My problem is with the BS seasoning rules.

Let's say, for example, I have 400,000 dollars back in Australia. I transfer $50,000 to a Thai bank account a couple of days before my extension is due. I can even show Thai Immigration a statement detailing my asset worth and income in Australia, courtesy of Centrelink.

Why is it so sodding hard for Thai officials to work out I am financially solvent, have more than the required amount in a Thai bank, and will obviously contribute to the Thai economy? Sorry, I'm being logical. Rant over.

You wrote, "I don't have a problem with the 800,000 baht requirement."  Transfer the money to a Thai bank and leave it there if you don't have a problem with the money requirement. 

[hobobo]

11 hours ago, poanoi said:

as far as i know, every_single_one pays their way already ?

Two Chang beers a day is not really paying one's way, at least I don't think cyberfarang had that in mind.

[saminoz]

11 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Good post, swissie and my thoughts exactly.

 

The Thai government will welcome westerners if they feel are going to be of benefit to the country, one being, they want their money invested in Thailand and not abroad. Thailand is not a charitable kingdom to accommodate cheap charlies that are considered poor in their own countries that owes them a better quality lifestyle. To be given something, one has to give something back in return. 

 

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

 

As you rightly say swissie, 24000USD or £19000 is hardly a fortune these days. If pensioners over 50 cannot afford this amount to remain in the country, then I have to ask; what have they been doing all their lives?

You both sound like a couple of clueless trolls, to be honest.  Either that or you haven't really thought the issue over adequately.

Consider the retiree that has his UK pension locked into a fund in, say, Gibraltar (2.5% interest PA income tax).  The pension fund could be easily $250k and provide a comfortable, if not lavish, lifestyle in Thailand.

 

There are no methods that I am aware of that will allow that pension fund to be transferred to a Thai bank anyway.  Apart from that, who in their right mind wants to commit 800,000 Baht to be sat in a Thai acount, especially when one is at retirement age?

 

Consider then that many such "pensioners" (I use the double apostrophes as, for example in my case the "pensioner" may not be of  normal retirement age but, instead, may be an ex-military chap receiving a pension from age 40 or 55) have already established themselves here and have bought property and/or businesses. 

 

These "pensioners may, in many, many cases, already have bought property worth millions of Baht in their wives' names or, perhaps, bought a condo or two.  This would surelysatisfy the requirement to show that they have invested in Thailand and that they are not here just for a "live by the seat of your pants" lifestyle.

Surely, the Thai government should be able to see that one size does not fit all?  That not all farang live hand to mouth?

 

In my opninion, if someone who can otherwise qualify for a retirement extension can show the equivalent or higher value savings/pension fund, proof of purchase of property (either as an individual or as the source of funds for the purchase of said property(s) in the case of a farang married to a Thai), then that should really negate the need for tying up 800k that could be otherwise used to set the wife up an a small business or towards something where it can generate more income.

 

Just my 2c. and I hope not too harsh.

[HAKAPALITA]

Whats all this Thailand may force me to move crap. Only the ones who cheated are affected. Get over it.