Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[tropo]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

<removed>

 

Seriously, the Brits (that I know - and myself have to send copies of Bank Statements, and any other relevant documentation to substantiate our income. The Americans on the other hand (as far as I know) do not have to do this, and a "hand on heart" statement appears to be sufficient.

 

"IF you have the income, and immigration (TI) accept that 65k into your account is proof what's issue?" The issue is - as explained a few times previously - is that no one knows how long you need to have been putting 65k a month into your Thai bank account. Some say 3 months, the same length of time as the 800k requirement has to be seasoned, whilst others say it has to have been going in for 12 months, in which case, a lot of people will be unable to satisfy the requirements. (if as I quoted in an earlier post - your annual extension is due in say, July) Others say "an average of 65k per month".

 

What is needed - and has not yet been forthcoming, is a statement from TI clarifying the situation.

If TI does allow monthly deposits for income verification surely only 12 x 65k deposits would be acceptable. 3 months of deposits would mean everyone could prove their income with only 195k and 800k deposits would be superfluous.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I'll be hoping I can use mine in late June, but don't wait, make an appointment now.

As stated earlier - valid for 6 months, but 3 Embassies are stopping issuing them in the next couple of months - British Embassy are not accepting applications after 12th December.

Edited November 6, 2018 by sambum

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Absolutely excellent advise for TVF members.

 

What concerns me is the number who don't even know about the withdrawal of these Embassy services.

I was at a function last Friday, approx 30+ expats.

4 American, 2 Swiss, 1 French, 1 German, 3 Australians, the rest British.

Only 2 Brits knew the Embassies were ceasing the service, the rest were oblivious to the news.

Hypothesis: EITHER they are fluent Thai speakers & readers & get their news from Thai television & newspapers OR they live alone, have no Thai and watch only 'Western' television channels.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Immigration asked them to 'verify', not 'certify'.

Immigration already accept 'certified' copies, as in when you sign the copies of your documents for an extension.

Your certifying it's a copy of the original.

'Verify' means to authenticate the document and it's contents, very different from 'certifying'.

I am well aware of the difference. WHO asked for verification and how ? a letter in Thai, a letter in English where certify and verify could have been confused, orally in English where verify was used instead of certify, we don't know how this happened and that's a problem. The German embassy certifies my income according to the documents seen and.....IS RECEIVING.... They have no problem issuing the letter, TI has no problem accepting it. They haven't got on their high horse shouting WE CAN'T......

[elviajero]

10 minutes ago, sambum said:

As stated earlier - valid for 6 months, but 3 Embassies are stopping issuing them in the next couple of months - British Embassy are not accepting applications after 12th December.

Maybe.

 

There is no obligation for immigration to accept any form of proof of income.

[chama]

interesting that all of the sudden several countries are making the same move. It would seem Thailand is looking to inject additional funds into their banking system from a source they perceive to have little political influence 

[sambum]

On 11/5/2018 at 3:52 PM, Farrows3399 said:

There is too much paranoia and projection here. Ie, they want to get rid of westerners, the Chinese conspiracy (they are behind this)... But consider that Thai immigration has not  changed any requirement numbers whatsoever. All they did was make the very reasonable request that the embassys just verify Income. I'm sure Thai immigration is just as surprised at the reactions as everyone else. In other words their motive for this request was not to end income letters/combos

As it turns out "the very reasonable request" was to ask the Embassies to do something unlawful! They haven't changed any "requirement numbers" (?) but if the only alternative they are suggesting (up to now) is virtually "put your money in a Thai bank.

 

Wonder why that is? Hmm?

 

[sambum]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Maybe.

 

There is no obligation for immigration to accept any form of proof of income.

Really? They have been accepting them for years without question - until now.

 

If you want to be pedantic about it, there is no obligation for Immigration to accept ANYTHING!!! 

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Hypothesis: EITHER they are fluent Thai speakers & readers & get their news from Thai television & newspapers OR they live alone, have no Thai and watch only 'Western' television channels.

Try disabilities, dementia, unable to use or own a PC.

Some are completely dependant on their Thai wives, but even they can't help with problems they don't understand.

 

[malt25]

14 minutes ago, chama said:

interesting that all of the sudden several countries are making the same move. It would seem Thailand is looking to inject additional funds into their banking system from a source they perceive to have little political influence 

"It would seem Thailand is looking to inject additional funds into their banking system "

Do you really think the money we expats inject into the Thai economy would make one iota of difference ?

[malt25]

19 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Maybe.

 

There is no obligation for immigration to accept any form of proof of income.

If that is the case, why do they specify an income amount ? If they wanted to see tangible money coming into the country wouldn't they scrap the income component & demand the 400,000 or 800,000 deposited & seasoned in a Thai bank account ?

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand your comment.

[soalbundy]

24 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Maybe.

 

There is no obligation for immigration to accept any form of proof of income.

Then there would be no need for immigration, they accept your passport without verification.

Edited November 6, 2018 by soalbundy

[orchidfan]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Just made one for an Aussie mate for 19th December.

 

The fact so many booking times are still available shows how little the majority of expats may be aware of the scenario.

A booking time?

Previously I just walked in...did the stat dec, and got it certified!

Are you suggesting that we have to make a booking now?

[cleverman]

5 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Pot, kettle, black. All your stupid questions on the Phuket sub-forum come to mind.......

 

5 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Pot, kettle, black. All your stupid questions on the Phuket sub-forum come to mind.......

Quote just one stupid question 

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

A booking time?

Previously I just walked in...did the stat dec, and got it certified!

Are you suggesting that we have to make a booking now?

Yep, have to make an appointment for passport or notarial services now.

Been that way for over 12 months now.

 

https://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Appointments_Page.html

 

Book an appointment > Notarial service (Documents for use in Thailand > Stat Declarations.

Select date, available appointments are shown (14 per day).

[gaviny]

A booking time?
Previously I just walked in...did the stat dec, and got it certified!
Are you suggesting that we have to make a booking now?

Yes now you gotta book ..can do it online. Must have only been in last 9 months that booking came in as soon did mine in February with no booking.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Farrows3399]

20 minutes ago, sambum said:

As it turns out "the very reasonable request" was to ask the Embassies to do something unlawful! They haven't changed any "requirement numbers" (?) but if the only alternative they are suggesting (up to now) is virtually "put your money in a Thai bank.

 

Wonder why that is? Hmm?

 

Then what about the European embassy letters that are being accepted, are they doing something illegal?? Actually the 3 embassys could have satisfied thai immigration with doing "quick verifications" OK I give up on the guessing game: Why do Thailand banks need capitalizing , bad loans ?

 

[cleverman]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is just your opinion and is certainly not based upon anything official from immigration.

I don't know how else I can prove my income without the embassy letter.

[sambum]

20 minutes ago, Farrows3399 said:

Then what about the European embassy letters that are being accepted, are they doing something illegal?? Actually the 3 embassys could have satisfied thai immigration with doing "quick verifications" OK I give up on the guessing game: Why do Thailand banks need capitalizing , bad loans ?

 

"Actually the 3 embassys could have satisfied thai immigration with doing "quick verifications"

 

"Actually", they can't - that's the point!

Edited November 6, 2018 by sambum

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I don't know how else I can prove my income without the embassy letter.

drink tea and wait, something has been blown up out of all proportion, there will inevitably be a reaction from TI and a compromise found, something along the lines of ''for those foreigners whose embassies no longer issue letters the following proof of income will be accepted......... It just isn't the first 'things to do' on their list, unseemly haste would mean loss of face.

[cleverman]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is just your opinion and is certainly not based upon anything official from immigration.

I don't know how else I can prove my income without the embassy letter.

[sambum]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

drink tea and wait, something has been blown up out of all proportion, there will inevitably be a reaction from TI and a compromise found, something along the lines of ''for those foreigners whose embassies no longer issue letters the following proof of income will be accepted......... It just isn't the first 'things to do' on their list, unseemly haste would mean loss of face.

I do so hope you are right! Maybe it will get higher up on their "to do" list when they get inundated by ex pats with no letters!

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, sambum said:

"Actually", they can't - that's the point!

No. That's YOUR point. Others in this topic have said that the Embassy could do it and that there is nothing illegal in verifying your income from documents you show them.

Point. 

[sambum]

3 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I don't know how else I can prove my income without the embassy letter.

Ha ha! You and many thousand others!

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

"Actually the 3 embassys could have satisfied thai immigration with doing "quick verifications"

 

Actually - they can't - that's the point!

Nobody really expects a verification, keep silent and smile seems to work for the other embassies, it is possible that a high to middle official has inadvertently crossed a red line and the reactions of 3 embassies wasn't expected hence the silence from TI

[Pib]

1 minute ago, cleverman said:

I don't know how else I can prove my income without the embassy letter.

"If," repeat if TI immigration started accepting foreign income documents without an accompanying embassy letter such as monthly/quarterly pension statement, annual tax return, etc., would you be able to provide such docs? 

 

If not that would imply you can not meet the monthly income requirement of X-amount.  Instead you would need to use the big deposit in a Thai bank option.

[elviajero]

33 minutes ago, sambum said:

Really? They have been accepting them for years without question - until now.

 

If you want to be pedantic about it, there is no obligation for Immigration to accept ANYTHING!!! 

No they haven’t. Some offices have not accepted embassy letters that are six months old or over x months old. And we do not know if immigration will accept letters that do not include validation of the income. So, at the moment it is still maybe.

 

I’m not being pedantic — just stating fact; but you’re right, there is no obligation for immigration to accept anything, and they can ask for more than the published criteria. Both are more reasons for caution.

 

There is no guarantee that if someone gets letter now they will be able to use it in 5 months time.

[cleverman]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Where did you read that?

 

According to my IO they have a directive that allows income letters, affidavits, stat decs etc, to be accepted for up to 6 months after issue, unless they receive a directive to the contrary.

I am referring to after the stat dec etc are more than 6 months old. 

[ubonjoe]

42 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

Are you suggesting that we have to make a booking now?

Yes

Info here: https://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Appointments_Page.html

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I am referring to after the stat dec etc are more than 6 months old. 

After which a compromise will have been found, no need for speculative scare mongering.