With Trump sitting nearby, Macron calls nationalism a betrayal

[Becker]

46 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Soviet era Russia

And you bring up the old USSR because that is relevant to the present day exactly how?

[Boon Mee]

5 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Macron is a mere puppet for his former employer..Goldman Sachs I believe..he is a globalist and imo does not give a toss for the working man/woman..his god is money and power cos greed is good.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The one world ???? globalists like Macron are definitely on the wrong side of History. 

[Becker]

7 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Macron is a mere puppet for his former employer..Goldman Sachs I believe..he is a globalist and imo does not give a toss for the working man/woman..his god is money and power cos greed is good.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And Trump cares about "the working man/woman" and his god is not money and he's not greedy???

[Becker]

2 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

The one world ???? globalists like Macron are definitely on the wrong side of History. 

Which part of history is that? And is that real history you're talking about or alternative history?

[Retiredandhappyhere]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...French President Emmanuel Macron used an address to world leaders gathered in Paris for Armistice commemorations on Sunday to send a stern message about the dangers of nationalism, calling it a betrayal of moral values..."

 

I have to say that I haven't liked Macron too much; there was something too 'French' about him (apologies to my French friends!).

 

That said, I am warming up to him.

 

"...By pursuing our own interests first, with no regard to others', we erase the very thing that a nation holds most precious, that which gives it life and makes it great: its moral values..."

 

Hear Hear!

 

Sadly, I sincerely doubt Trump even understands the message.

 

I have said it before and (sadly) need to say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

God help us all.

 

 

And you believe that Macron is not putting himself first?   He will not be re-elected and is showing signs of real concern about the opposition.  He promotes the EU because he believes that he will (or is) the new "Merkel" and would like to be the head man in a United States of Europe. 

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

The one world ???? globalists like Macron are definitely on the wrong side of History. 

Best to put away your trumpist talking points booklet. 

 

Macron is actually endeavouring to improve the French economy for the benefit of the workers, rather than the elites as does trump.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

4 minutes ago, Becker said:

Which part of history is that? And is that real history you're talking about or alternative history?

It is the history where giant unions of countries are formed either by choice or by force, but where, over time, each of the constituent countries involved long to be free and eventually manage to establish their freedom and independence again, even when not necessarily to their immediate economic advantage. 

 

This is currently being echoed in the UK's Brexit decision, which was made despite expectations of possible early adverse economic consequences, thereby proving that money is not the centre of every voters' thoughts.  So-called Nationalists simply believe that the politicians they voted for should be the ones making the major decisions affecting their country and making their laws.    Naturally, big business predictably disagree, as their only concern is money and certainly not because a minor part of it might possibly trickle down to its workers.

 

In a family context, it is the family's primary duty to take care of itself, which is normally done by making the decisions itself which affect the family and NOT by relying on some obscure body with less interest in that particular family making the decisions for them. In the case of Brexit, the UK is the "family" and the EU is the "obscure body".

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

French President Emmanuel Macron used an address to world leaders gathered in Paris for Armistice commemorations on Sunday to send a stern message about the dangers of nationalism, calling it a betrayal of moral values.

Man...I wish I'd been there when that happened.

[Becker]

6 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

It is the history where giant unions of countries are formed either by choice or by force, but where, over time, each of the constituent countries involved long to be free and eventually manage to establish their freedom and independence again, even when not necessarily to their immediate economic advantage. 

 

This is currently being echoed in the UK's Brexit decision, which was made despite expectations of possible early adverse economic consequences, thereby proving that money is not the centre of every voters' thoughts.  So-called Nationalists simply believe that the politicians they voted for should be the ones making the major decisions affecting their country and making their laws.    Naturally, big business predictably disagree, as their only concern is money and certainly not because a minor part of it might possibly trickle down to its workers.

 

In a family context, it is the family's primary duty to take care of itself, which is normally done by making the decisions itself which affect the family and NOT by relying on some obscure body with less interest in that particular family making the decisions for them. In the case of Brexit, the UK is the "family" and the EU is the "obscure body".

So the evil EU caused you to lose your "independent identities" and become "amoral drones and slaves"? Because that was the assertion made by the poster I replied to.

 

On a side note isn't it funny how the most fervent flag wavers often are expats?

[Tug]

Old Donald is sure getting spanked lately first the midterms now president Marcon called him out then the lazy guy can’t walk a couple of blocks with everyone else yup Donald you are on a roll better come home and nurse those bone spurs 

[vogie]

In all fairness, it just shows how bad Macron is when Trump is more popular. ????????

[canuckamuck]

45 minutes ago, Becker said:

And you bring up the old USSR because that is relevant to the present day exactly how?

 

Because Becker said:

Quote

Maybe you can come up with some examples of people and cultures who have lost their "independent identities" (I assume you mean due to globalism) and have become "amoral drones and slaves"?

And my answer was Soviet era Russia. Next time I won't help, you just have to keep up.

[Becker]

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

 

Because Becker said:

And my answer was Soviet era Russia. Next time I won't help, you just have to keep up.

So you can't explain how the old dictatorial USSR is relevant to today's nationalism/globalism debate? Fair enough, didn't think you would.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Becker said:

Maybe you can come up with some examples of people and cultures who have lost their "independent identities" (I assume you mean due to globalism) and have become "amoral drones and slaves"?

 

You mean like the Chinese slave laborers in top brand factories driven to suicide thanks to globalized capitalists? Or all those Bangladeshi sweat shop workers killed when unsafe factories collapse? Or the massive problem still with slave and child labor which seems to be increasing despite the efforts of some governments to control it? Or those communities suffering from deforestation, jungle burning clearances and illegally land grabbing?

[AGareth2]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

If Genghis Khan was at my gate, I would want to have my friends standing with me for defense.

 

Wouldn't you?

 

 

No!

I would want my friends to live

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[Becker]

14 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You mean like the Chinese slave laborers in top brand factories driven to suicide thanks to globalized capitalists? Or all those Bangladeshi sweat shop workers killed when unsafe factories collapse? Or the massive problem still with slave and child labor which seems to be increasing despite the efforts of some governments to control it? Or those communities suffering from deforestation, jungle burning clearances and illegally land grabbing?

Yes, Chinese slave laborers and Bangladeshi sweat shop workers all had safe and well paying jobs before globalization came around. Oh, and the children all went to school!

[Zyxel]

"Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism: nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism," Macron.

 

"Patriotism is the virtue of the brutes." Oscar Wilde.

 

"Patriotism is your belief that this country is superior to all others, because you were born there."
George Bernard Shaw.

 

"Patriotism is loving your country, nationalism is hating that of others." Charles de Gaulle.

 

"Patriotism is the love of one's family, nationalism is hatred of others." Romain Gary.

 

"Patriotism, the only allowable form of xenophobia." Georges Elgozy.

 

"Patriotism: A combustible material that can be used as a torch for anyone who wants to illuminate his name." Ambrose Gwinett Bierce.

 

"If war is a horrible thing, would not patriotism be the mother idea that maintains it?" Guy de Maupassant.

 

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein.

 

 

[Becker]

46 minutes ago, vogie said:

In all fairness, it just shows how bad Macron is when Trump is more popular. ????????

One is pandering to his base at every opportunity and cares nothing for anything but himself and the other one is making the hard choices even if it makes him unpopular.

In all fairness, you're wrong.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Becker said:

One is pandering to his base at every opportunity and cares nothing for anything but himself and the other one is making the hard choices even if it makes him unpopular.

In all fairness, you're wrong.

Are you saying that Trump is not more popular than Macron, if you are, you are wrong.

[Xaos]

Macron denies the existence of a French culture



http://europeanpost.co/macron-denies-the-existence-of-a-french-culture/

[Becker]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are you saying that Trump is not more popular than Macron, if you are, you are wrong.

Uh, if that's your understanding of my reply then either you have to stop posting while drunk or you should sue the education system in whatever country you hail from.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Becker said:

Uh, if that's your understanding of my reply then either you have to stop posting while drunk or you should sue the education system in whatever country you hail from.

You really are an arrogant poster are you not.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

People use the word nationalism to mean racism and aggression, they also use it to mean dedication to their country and pride in their communities and their mutual bonds. One cannot just declare nationalism as a cause for war unless the definition of nationalism is more narrowly defined. Globalism very easily becomes the betrayal of moral value Macron was talking about.  When we lose our independent identities we become amoral drones and slaves.

I think you confuse nationalism 

with patriotism

 

I view nationalism with disdain. I think it includes jingoism, xenophobia and exceptionalism. Waving a St. George's  flag is an example. I don't think racism is involved. That's a separate issue.

 

Ultimately, and coming back to Nash again, solutions that are best for all should be sought. It's the key issue of our time if you think about it.

 

Hungary is a good example. Interesting to compare their stance now with their stance as part of Austria Hungary, and one of the central powers, in the lead up to WW1.

 

We forget history at our peril.

[Becker]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

You really are an arrogant poster are you not.

No, but I am impatient.

[riclag]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

 

"By pursuing our own interests first, with no regard to others', we erase the very thing that a nation holds most precious, that which gives it life and makes it great: its moral values."

I suspect everybody at one time in their life has refereed to their country as home ! 

Morality starts at home! Mr. Macron obviously is struggling with taking care of the family first country first concept!  I'm a BB

"* Family first: Millennials (53 percent); Gen X-ers (61 percent); Baby Boomers (64 percent); Elders (76 percent)

* Being an American: Millennials (34 percent); Gen X-ers (37 percent); Baby Boomers (66 percent); Elders (80 percent)"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/americans-dont-cite-god-family-country-quite-like-the-cliche-goes/2015/03/20/bc3e0656-cf1b-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html?utm_term=.2fd22fef0be2

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Not sure but it was the ultra nationalistic De Gaulle that kicked out the american troops.

Nope. The EU is antithesis of nationalism.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

In all fairness, it just shows how bad Macron is when Trump is more popular. ????????

I don't think popularity is the main aim of any good leader.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I don't think popularity is the main aim of any good leader.

I think that would depend on the leader and whether they wanted to be re-elected or not.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I think that would depend on the leader and whether they wanted to be re-elected or not.

You really have a problem with believing that ANYONE can have feelings of philanthropy, altruism or want to do the best that they can for their people. Harping on about selfishness and gravy trains is all very well but I trust  this isn't motivated by something more fundamental?