Brexit turmoil hits the pound

[mfd101]

The issue is one of direct democracy (ie referenda) vs representative democracy (ie voting for your representative in the Parliament & the Parliament then decides). The record suggests - & the Brexit referendum rather confirms! - that direct democracy is fine on a small scale (eg local town or village) and in relatively small countries that have no current issues stirring up hysteria on a grand scale (eg Switzerland).

 

To have the UK 'governed' by referendum however is just stupid because of the size of the country, social & cultural complexity, and the strategic importance of the issues. David Cameron has much to answer for with his negligent, noblesse oblige approach. He should have made it clear that, in Britain, a referendum is simply a government-organised survey of public opinion, with NO binding effects on Government decisionmaking. But that is history.

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

The issue is one of direct democracy (ie referenda) vs representative democracy (ie voting for your representative in the Parliament & the Parliament then decides). The record suggests - & the Brexit referendum rather confirms! - that direct democracy is fine on a small scale (eg local town or village) and in relatively small countries that have no current issues stirring up hysteria on a grand scale (eg Switzerland).

 

To have the UK 'governed' by referendum however is just stupid because of the size of the country, social & cultural complexity, and the strategic importance of the issues. David Cameron has much to answer for with his negligent, noblesse oblige approach. He should have made it clear that, in Britain, a referendum is simply a government-organised survey of public opinion, with NO binding effects on Government decisionmaking. But that is history.

It paves the way for mandatory voting in future elections but they'd be mighty foolish to try moving these goalposts after the whistle has blown.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Wow! I will get to swap my burgundy coloured passport for the "traditional" blue British passport.

Pity that the former allowed me to live and work in 27 countries, and the latter allows me to work in only one.

Oh well (sigh)..............at least its blue.

[Bangkok Barry]

On 11/16/2018 at 2:39 PM, dotpoom said:

??? I thought the "hold up" was trying to avoid a "hard border" between Northern and Southern Ireland. That is a really difficult hurdle to overcome 

 

It's actually impossible. If you have any kind of check between the two then it is not an open border, and as everyone in the UK is rock-solid in insisting that the border remains open then there is absolutely no solution. A pity no-one thought of that at the time of the vote, but every question was answered by "We'll deal with that when we get to it." Well, they haven't, along with just about everything else.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

You cannot have a peoples vote on a peoples vote any more than Chris Waddle or Stuart Pearce could have peoples penalties in 1990 when they f***** theirs up! ????

Stuart Pearce wasn't told he couldn't take penalties any more. (see Euros 1996 and 'er, think of a better example next time....)

[evadgib]

34 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Stuart Pearce wasn't told he couldn't take penalties any more. (see Euros 1996 and 'er, think of a better example next time....)

Relax, here's where the original quote came from and your reply confirms it achieved its aim ????

 

Pat Condell‏Verified account @patcondell

FollowFollow @patcondell

More

Pat Condell Retweeted People's Vote UK

Got to feel for poor @GaryLineker. He might have been a World Cup winner in 1990 if only England had been given a second People’s Semi-Final against West Germany. Or if Pearce and Waddle had been allowed to take People’s Penalties.

Pat Condell added,

1:32

People's Vote UKVerified account @peoplesvote_uk

"I think it's very rare in life that you get to use the benefit of hindsight." WATCH: @GaryLineker's powerful argument on why he's…

12:29 PM - 13 Oct 2018

Edited November 18, 2018 by evadgib

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

'Sending it back until we get the right vote' would render UK a laughing stock & make general elections etc a thing of the past. Wee Jimmy Cranky & Co would have a field day ????

Exactly, these politicians really p..s me off, making political mileage out of a sticky / difficult situation. It's about time the Corbyns, the Sturgens and the brexiteer (Rottweiler) politicians started making constructive contributions rather than off hand criticism.

 

Whatever TM's failings, she at least had the guts to take it on when everyone else ran for the hills, Cameron, Farage et all.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

Relax, here's where the original quote came from and your reply confirms it achieved its aim ????

Pat Condell‏Verified account @patcondell

FollowFollow @patcondell

M

Pat C

Sure, we really need to relax with lightweight contributions from Pat Condell uber right-wing nut. Great choice.

[superal]

14 hours ago, roo860 said:

 

I thought you always eat soup with a spoon, using a fork would be a tad difficult, unless it's vegetable soup.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

glad to see someone was paying attention , thanks for that

[simoh1490]

A slight and temporary detour back to the topic perhaps!

 

Bloomberg has a short piece this morning which I think is very good, it says words to the effect of....it will be a brave Parliament that rejects an unpopular deal in favour of economic certainty, markets are suggesting the fall to $1.20 this week could be rapid and are repeating that old Treasury Project Fear mantra that it could fall to $1.10 if there is no deal...but of course Project Fear was poo poo'ed as being nothing more than propaganda and fiction so there's nothing to worry about, not a thing! It appears that this is the all change season for British expats in Thailand, a falling Pound and the Thai government wanting to see cash in Thai banks is not a good combination for many, time perhaps to get serious about that Plan B.

[KittenKong]

13 hours ago, mfd101 said:

To have the UK 'governed' by referendum however is just stupid because of the size of the country, social & cultural complexity, and the strategic importance of the issues.

To have the UK governed by referendum would be stupid simply because most of the population are morons. Just like every other country. They mostly dont know what day it is let alone what Brexit implies.

[BritManToo]

36 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

To have the UK governed by referendum would be stupid simply because most of the population are morons.

And you think the MPs (elected by morons) aren't morons as well?

David (PigF*&^%$) Cameron

Boris (clown) Johnson

Tony (WMD) Blair

Jerry (ILikeLatinoWivesHalfMyAge) Corbyn

etc.

Edited November 19, 2018 by BritManToo

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

And you think the MPs (elected by morons) aren't morons as well?

There's a huge difference between a professional career moron and the everyday common or garden street moron, salary, benefits and pension for three.

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Sure, we really need to relax with lightweight contributions from Pat Condell uber right-wing nut. Great choice.

How come you lot cannot tolerate banter or humour deemed to have originated from the other side, you know, the ones that won? Straight answer preferred please & none of that 'you're all thick' nonesence.

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

To have the UK governed by referendum would be stupid simply because most of the population are morons. Just like every other country. They mostly dont know what day it is let alone what Brexit implies.

Yes, you've put it rather less delicately than I did.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

And you think the MPs (elected by morons) aren't morons as well?

No, they aren't.

 

They may be self-seeking, greedy thieves and liars, but they aren't stupid.

[BritManToo]

Reads topic title "Brexit turmoil hits pound"

Rushes to view XE.com ........... 42.2

In the last 3 months it's been between 41.8 and 43.5 ..... hardly any change so why the big panic headline?

[Henryford]

53 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

No, they aren't.

 

They may be self-seeking, greedy thieves and liars, but they aren't stupid.

Does that include Dianne Abbott?

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

And you think the MPs (elected by morons) aren't morons as well?

David (PigF*&^%$) Cameron

Boris (clown) Johnson

Tony (WMD) Blair

Jerry (ILikeLatinoWivesHalfMyAge) Corbyn

etc.

I think Boris would be a Trump for UK.????

[dick dasterdly]

21 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Exactly the opposite , Sterling rose on the eve of the vote because the expectation was a majority voting to REMAIN. It was the subsequent LEAVE result that caused the spectacular decline.

The continuing fall over the last couple of years has simply reflected events. Rightly or wrongly the market views a ' hard ' Brexit ,or worse still no deal, as a bad future economic indicator.

Were the BREXIT decision reversed then yes Sterling would rise very sharply in the short term certainly . Longer term would depend on the political climate , a Corbyn government would see another huge Sterling sell off.

"Exactly the opposite , Sterling rose on the eve of the vote because the expectation was a majority voting to REMAIN."

 

Oops, you're quite right - I said the expectation was a leave result - when I obviously meant remain.

Edited November 19, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[joecoolfrog]

19 hours ago, mfd101 said:

WHOEVER has the numbers in the Parliament has no need - legally or constitutionally - of any referendum. Politically however it would certainly be sensible - for EVERYONE's sake - to hold a 2nd referendum on the terms negotiated for putting the first referendum's outcome into effect.

 

But that might just be too rational for the British, or at least the English.

There will be no second referendum , a deal will be thrashed out.

[dick dasterdly]

19 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

It was done in Ireland several years ago without any subsequent issue. I would agree with you if MPs decided to end Brexit without referring it back to the voter ... that would be undemocratic. But a democratic vote by it's very nature is an act of democracy. Just as we change governments in elections. In the future we should avoid settling complicated matters by referendums.

"It was done in Ireland several years ago without any subsequent issue. I would agree with you if MPs decided to end Brexit without referring it back to the voter ... that would be undemocratic."

 

Good point.  I think (but certainly don't know) that most voters' opinions are becoming more entrenched as a result of the farce of brexit 'negotiations'.....?

 

May's leave in name only deal certainly isn't helping.

 

Sorry, wandering way off topic here.

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

To have the UK governed by referendum would be stupid simply because most of the population are morons. Just like every other country. They mostly dont know what day it is let alone what Brexit implies.

Whereas our MPs are honest people, understand all the intricacies - and not at all concerned about their own, personal interests..... ????!

Edited November 19, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

No, they aren't.

 

They may be self-seeking, greedy thieves and liars, but they aren't stupid.

That's hardly a ringing endorsement as to why the populace should trust MPs!

[KittenKong]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

That's hardly a ringing endorsement as to why the populace should trust MPs!

I dont remember saying that they should be trusted, just that they are better equipped to make decisions than the general population is.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Henryford said:

Does that include Dianne Abbott?

Prescott would be a better example.

[dick dasterdly]

47 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I dont remember saying that they should be trusted, just that they are better equipped to make decisions than the general population is.

Why?

 

Because they are "self-seeking, greedy thieves and liars"??!

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Reads topic title "Brexit turmoil hits pound"

Rushes to view XE.com ........... 42.2

In the last 3 months it's been between 41.8 and 43.5 ..... hardly any change so why the big panic headline?

Fake news.

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Whereas our MPs are honest people, understand all the intricacies - and not at all concerned about their own, personal interests..... ????!

I'll have you know that the arch-eurosceptic Jacob Rees-Mogg is down to his last £5 million and struggling to make ends meet...

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6402059/Jacob-Rees-Mogg-5million-complains-struggling-make-ends-meet.html

[KittenKong]

10 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why?

 

Because they are "self-seeking, greedy thieves and liars"??!

No, because they are mostly well-informed and fairly smart. The general public is neither.