Phoenix under armed guard as concrete blocks ballast exposed

[snoop1130]

Phoenix under armed guard as concrete blocks ballast exposed

By Tanyaluk Sakoot

 

Two Army personnel watch over the ’Phoenix’ before it is lifted out of the water at the Ratanachai Shipyard on the east side of Phuket Town. Photo: Tavee Adam

 

PHUKET:-- The wreck of the salvaged tour boat ‘Phoenix’ is now under armed guard by soldiers to prevent any tampering of evidence, Col Santi Sakuntanark, the top-ranking soldier stationed in Phuket, has confirmed.

 

Col Santi told The Phuket News this morning that he has received a direct order from his superiors to keep all people except police investigators away from the wreck.

 

“We received an order from the Commander of the Royal Army Region 4 (the Regional Army base for all of Southern Thailand, located in Nakhon Sri Thammarat) to keep unauthorised people away from the boat,” Col Santi said.

 

Full Story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/phoenix-under-armed-guards-as-concrete-blocks-ballast-exposed-69420.php#4mH2jF8jdsU7Q1hP.97

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2018-11-21

[bluesofa]

3 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Col Santi told The Phuket News this morning that he has received a direct order from his superiors to keep all people except police investigators away from the wreck

The government officials need access to be able do their own tampering, in case any evidence needs adjusting to avoid the country being painted more unfavourably than has been self-inflicted already.

[Oziex1]

To those in the know, what is the significance of concrete balast, is it to try and balance against over crowding? 

[Darcula]

Quote

Gen Surachate is conducting an inspection of the boat at the shipyard today.

 

This is getting funnier than Kim Jong Un inspecting state-owned factories.

[worgeordie]

8 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

To those in the know, what is the significance of concrete balast, is it to try and balance against over crowding? 

I believe the boat is built from GRP, so is lighter than a steel boat,of the same size

so is going to need a fair amount of ballast to make it stable in the sea,

 

regards Worgeordie

[8OA8]

15 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

To those in the know, what is the significance of concrete balast, is it to try and balance against over crowding? 

Take a look at this article, it's on canal boat's but you'll get a good idea of the use.

www.thefitoutpontoon.co.uk/hull-integral-parts/ballast/

[Tug]

I wonder if a competent marine surveyed has been aboard 

[Old Croc]

2 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

To those in the know, what is the significance of concrete balast, is it to try and balance against over crowding? 

If you look at a boat like this there is probably more of it above the water than below, and without ballast it would be liable to capsize very easily.

The weight of 100 passengers moving around wouldn't help.

Putting weight at the bottom offsets this imbalance and stabilizes the vessel. However if the ballast moves around uncontained, as seems to be the case here, it could have the opposite effect.

 

 

[Oziex1]

3 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

If you look at a boat like this there is probably more of it above the water than below, and without ballast it would be liable to capsize very easily.

The weight of 100 passengers moving around wouldn't help.

Putting weight at the bottom offsets this imbalance and stabilizes the vessel. However if the ballast moves around uncontained, as seems to be the case here, it could have the opposite effect.

 

 

So likely to move around if hit by a big wave? 

[Old Croc]

1 minute ago, Oziex1 said:

So likely to move around if hit by a big wave? 

Basically, yes. Poor seamanship in placing a vessel side on to large seas wouldn't help.

 

[AhFarangJa]

If they simply used concrete blocks for ballast then it is done to save money.....a poor construction method.

Ballast is put into the bilge or keel in order to lower the centre of gravity and make the vessel more stable.

The normal method would be to use steel, or lead......To give an idea Concrete or cement weighs about 150 lbs per cu. ft. / Cast Iron weighs 450 lbs per cu.ft. / Lead weighs 700 lbs per cu.ft.

Cast iron or lead is sometimes mixed with cement in order to keep it stable, this is then capped with cement, then a layer of GRP or epoxy is put over the top to seal it all. Using steel in concrete is not the best way as the concrete shrinks as it cures with the potential to allow small amounts of moisture in, which in turns rusts the steel.....

[grumpy 4680]

        I really don't see what the fuss about security is for, if it was not scuttled, then there's nothing to tamper with, but as it capsized, the ballast may well of shifted, 

        But its going to require a real marine expert to ascertain if the ballast / passenger ratio was adequate for this type of boat construction. I doubt a visual inspection is going to show much, its more mathmatical.

[KKr]

53 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

        I really don't see what the fuss about security is for, if it was not scuttled, then there's nothing to tamper with, but as it capsized, the ballast may well of shifted, 

        But its going to require a real marine expert to ascertain if the ballast / passenger ratio was adequate for this type of boat construction. I doubt a visual inspection is going to show much, its more mathmatical.

or, and just guessing here, maybe there isn't enough ballast. why carry that much weight, increases fuel consumption doesn't ?

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

If they simply used concrete blocks for ballast then it is done to save money.....a poor construction method.

Ballast is put into the bilge or keel in order to lower the centre of gravity and make the vessel more stable.

The normal method would be to use steel, or lead......To give an idea Concrete or cement weighs about 150 lbs per cu. ft. / Cast Iron weighs 450 lbs per cu.ft. / Lead weighs 700 lbs per cu.ft.

Cast iron or lead is sometimes mixed with cement in order to keep it stable, this is then capped with cement, then a layer of GRP or epoxy is put over the top to seal it all. Using steel in concrete is not the best way as the concrete shrinks as it cures with the potential to allow small amounts of moisture in, which in turns rusts the steel.....

Concrete is often used as ballast.

[AhFarangJa]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Concrete is often used as ballast.

I did not say it wasn't, I said it is a poor way of doing it. 

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

I did not say it wasn't, I said it is a poor way of doing it. 

You implied it wasn't, 'the normal method would be'. Look at e.g the link given earlier in the thread, and you'll see it is a common or normal method.

[stevenl]

29 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

I did not say it wasn't, I said it is a poor way of doing it. 

Duplicate post.

Edited November 22, 2018 by stevenl

[madmitch]

So it's the Thai police that are going to conduct the investigation. No mention of any outside experts.

 

This is a specialist field whereby trained marine loss adjusters, investigators and engineers should be making the call, not those who regularly jump to ill-informed conclusions. 

 

But I won't jump to a conclusion just yet and hope that the right bodies will get involved in determining the precise reason behind this incident.

 

EDIT: I have just read in another article that expert engineers will be assisting the BIB. Lucky I didn't jump to that conclusion!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by madmitch

[AhFarangJa]

25 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You implied it wasn't, 'the normal method would be'. Look at e.g the link given earlier in the thread, and you'll see it is a common or normal method.

Geez, ok then, I should have written "A better method" or "A Longer lasting method ". As for normal practice, no it is not in GRP Boats for several reasons. Too many to list here or I would be typing all night..( yes, I am a slow typist ). I am not going to get into a pi**ing contest with you over the methods of boat construction, I will however, give you a couple of facts to take away with you. I am a time served indentured boatbuilder with 46 years experience in the industry. I have built all sorts of vessels from row boats to superyachts, I have worked both hands on, and as production manager in several countries from Europe to the Far East. I do know what I am talking about. i am off for a cold beer now, so bid you farewell, and have a good one.