EU court to issue Brexit ruling on December 10

 

Anti-Brexit demonstrators wave flags during a protest opposite the Houses of Parliament, London, Britain, December 4, 2018. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls

 

LUXEMBOURG (Reuters) - The European Court of Justice will deliver its judgment on whether Britain can unilaterally reverse its move to leave the European Union on Monday, Dec. 10, at 0800 GMT, the court said on Thursday.

 

The ruling, delivered with unusual urgency, will come on the eve of a crucial vote in the British parliament on whether to accept a Brexit deal negotiated by Prime Minister Theresa May.

 

An ECJ adviser issued an opinion in the case on Tuesday that Britain could simply stop Brexit without seeking approval from other member states, boosting hopes of those who want to halt the process. The judges usually follow such opinions.

 

(Reporting by Alastair Macdonald in Brussels, editing by Robin Emmott)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-06

34 minutes ago, webfact said:

An ECJ adviser issued an opinion in the case on Tuesday that Britain could simply stop Brexit without seeking approval from other member states, boosting hopes of those who want to halt the process. The judges usually follow such opinions.

If this goes through, then A50 needs to be rewritten. It's madness that a leaving country can cause 2 years of havoc and then simply say 'Sorry, but not sorry. We were just kidding'. 

 

 

Monday, what a coincidence! I wonder if that might influence the "meaningful" vote on Tuesday, especially if we get the green light to stay in this EU, which is now openly trying everything it can to assist the fall of UK democracy forever - they just keep piling up more and more good reasons to get the ferk out. 

 

If the UK decides to withdraw their Article 50 intention to leave, would it be in the interests of British democracy for the EU to force us out regardless?

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 EU, which is now openly trying everything it can to assist the fall of UK democracy forever 

Good to see Brexiteers still don’t have more to offer than conspiracy theories and lies.  

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Good to see Brexiteers still don’t have more to offer than conspiracy theories and lies.  

We can't rely on the UK government to enforce the will of the people, so regardless of whether parliament declines to enforce our withdrawal, the EU must force us out, regardless of what parliament says.  It is the will of the people.  It cannot be denied.  T

 

here was a clear majority of leaving, and until we have left, there can be no reconsideration or reflection.

 

Once we have left, then will be the time for reflection and regret, for recounting.  We can apply to rejoin, and I am sure that the EU will happily welcome us back with all the opt-outs that we enjoyed before. 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Monday, what a coincidence! I wonder if that might influence the "meaningful" vote on Tuesday, especially if we get the green light to stay in this EU, which is now openly trying everything it can to assist the fall of UK democracy forever - they just keep piling up more and more good reasons to get the ferk out. 

I am originally from an EU country, not the UK. Normally I like the idea of the UK within the EU. I think it's better for everybody. The EU is not perfect but a lot better than lots of countries trying to do their own thing.

 

It seems by now lots of people in the UK realized that any realistic form of Brexit won't make the UK better in any way for the majority of Brits. I would be happy if they think again and stay.

 

But then there are post like yours and probably people like you who somehow still only see the bad sides of the EU. And then I think: Just leave, we won't miss miserable ignorant Brexiters like you.

 

29 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

It is the will of the people.  It cannot be denied.

a) the referendum was not binding

b) before the referendum most people had lots of bad misinformation.

c) the Brexiters promised it would be easy to leave the EU, they promised the UK will have all the advantages of being in the EU without paying for it. The Brexiters spoke about all those wonderful things which would happen. This is what people voted for.

d) all the promises were obviously unrealistic. It's like somebody telling you something about that wonderful location with the perfect weather and the best restaurants. And you decide: Sure, I want to go there.
But then you check lots of details and find out the weather is not better, it's worse. And there are a few good restaurants but lots of bad places. And you think again: Is this really what I want?

e) People can always change their minds. Think i.e. about worst case that the majority of people think they want to start a war with XZY because the others are just such bad people. And then, after some more research, you find out that the others are not really so bad. What now? Should you still go to war? Or should you think again that maybe it's a good idea to stop that destructive idea now?

Over to you

50 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

If the UK decides to withdraw their Article 50 intention to leave, would it be in the interests of British democracy for the EU to force us out regardless?

In the interests of democracy for the EU and many more.

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am originally from an EU country, not the UK. Normally I like the idea of the UK within the EU. I think it's better for everybody. The EU is not perfect but a lot better than lots of countries trying to do their own thing.

 

It seems by now lots of people in the UK realized that any realistic form of Brexit won't make the UK better in any way for the majority of Brits. I would be happy if they think again and stay.

 

But then there are post like yours and probably people like you who somehow still only see the bad sides of the EU. And then I think: Just leave, we won't miss miserable ignorant Brexiters like you.

 

Well thanks for your kind comments. A couple of points that may or may not surprise you: first, the EU is not a country / second, you are assuming that "lots" of my countrymen have changed their minds / third, people like me don't see the necessity for this EU, that wants to centralize, control and eventually erase and roll European nations into a single European state / fourth, people like me do see the value of a European association of countries that can simply trade together easily (as the common market was sold to be in the 70's) / fifth, after we leave, we will eventually be happier and certainly won't miss miserable ignorant Europhiles like you! 

 

 

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

a) the referendum was not binding

b) before the referendum most people had lots of bad misinformation.

c) the Brexiters promised it would be easy to leave the EU, they promised the UK will have all the advantages of being in the EU without paying for it. The Brexiters spoke about all those wonderful things which would happen. This is what people voted for.

d) all the promises were obviously unrealistic. It's like somebody telling you something about that wonderful location with the perfect weather and the best restaurants. And you decide: Sure, I want to go there.
But then you check lots of details and find out the weather is not better, it's worse. And there are a few good restaurants but lots of bad places. And you think again: Is this really what I want?

e) People can always change their minds. Think i.e. about worst case that the majority of people think they want to start a war with XZY because the others are just such bad people. And then, after some more research, you find out that the others are not really so bad. What now? Should you still go to war? Or should you think again that maybe it's a good idea to stop that destructive idea now?

Over to you

a) Cameron said that he would enact the will of the people.  Admittedly, that was his own personal commitment, and if he had wanted it to be binding, he would have put it to Parliament to pass into legislation that the referendum would be binding.  But nevertheless, it is the will of the people of two years ago, and the will of the people two years ago cannot be denied.

b) To deny the will of the people based on the duplicitous information put before them would be a travesty of justice akin to asking fraudsters to return money to their victims. Who is in favour of that?

c) Exactly. Why has May made it so difficult? Economic common sense should not be allowed to stand in the way of the people.  Brexit means Brexit, whatever that means.

d) Unrealism is just another word for ambition.  Or faith.  Or illusion.  Or whatever.  We have a right to follow our dreams.  Don't you hate being woken up in the middle of a pleasant dream? That is not what people voted for.

e) I agree; people can change their minds.  But until the Last Will of the People has been enacted, it is premature to have second thoughts and think about some Next Will of the People.  How can we go back in before we're out? Do you not understand the hokey-cokey? Did the Grand Old Duke of York march his men up so far, then have second thoughts?

 

7 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

b) To deny the will of the people based on the duplicitous information put before them would be a travesty of justice akin to asking fraudsters to return money to their victims. Who is in favour of that?

You seem to be backing fraudsters with this line of argument. How can duplicitous information be a basis for a fair vote? A second vote would make much more clear who and how many are still in favour. 

8 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

We can't rely on the UK government to enforce the will of the people, so regardless of whether parliament declines to enforce our withdrawal, the EU must force us out, regardless of what parliament says.  It is the will of the people.  It cannot be denied.  T

 

here was a clear majority of leaving, and until we have left, there can be no reconsideration or reflection.

 

Once we have left, then will be the time for reflection and regret, for recounting.  We can apply to rejoin, and I am sure that the EU will happily welcome us back with all the opt-outs that we enjoyed before. 

Irony lives.

 

Brexiteer near begging for the EU to help out with failed Brexit.

 

And laces that with distrust in the UK Parliament.

 

A shining example of is where illogical thinking founded on emotions and lies leads to.

 

I’d laugh at this offering if it were not so pitiful.

 

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

Well thanks for your kind comments. A couple of points that may or may not surprise you: first, the EU is not a country / second, you are assuming that "lots" of my countrymen have changed their minds / third, people like me don't see the necessity for this EU, that wants to centralize, control and eventually erase and roll European nations into a single European state / fourth, people like me do see the value of a European association of countries that can simply trade together easily (as the common market was sold to be in the 70's) / fifth, after we leave, we will eventually be happier and certainly won't miss miserable ignorant Europhiles like you! 

 

 

Unadulterated hogwash.

 

A repeat of the lies that fueled Brexit.

5 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

You seem to be backing fraudsters with this line of argument. How can duplicitous information be a basis for a fair vote? A second vote would make much more clear who and how many are still in favour. 

It was a referendum - who said anything about a fair vote?  If people had wanted a rational decision they would have informed themselves of the facts and done studious research on the implications of leaving the EU, on the full meaning of the freedom of movement clauses of the treaty, on the opportunities and challenges of independent trade deals.

 

But instead, people chose to vote for slogans on buses.  They wanted shallow deception, and they voted for it, because they felt familiarly comfortable with it.  

 

You can't overturn the will of the people based on moral, political or legal niceties, nor pragmatic benevolence.  Some of the people have spoken.

 

SC

 

17 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

It was a referendum - who said anything about a fair vote?  If people had wanted a rational decision they would have informed themselves of the facts and done studious research on the implications of leaving the EU, on the full meaning of the freedom of movement clauses of the treaty, on the opportunities and challenges of independent trade deals.

 

But instead, people chose to vote for slogans on buses.  They wanted shallow deception, and they voted for it, because they felt familiarly comfortable with it.  

 

You can't overturn the will of the people based on moral, political or legal niceties, nor pragmatic benevolence.  Some of the people have spoken.

 

SC

 

Very clearly ‘the will of the people’ was manipulated by lies and to no small extent illegal overspending by the ‘Leave campaign’.

 

Nevertheless your assertion that ‘the will of the people’ can’t be overturned is flawed.

 

Firstly the claim that Brexit is ‘the will of the people’ is without foundation, it’s a slogan not a fact.

 

And secondly Parliament is sovereign, it can do as it jolly well likes.

12 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

It was a referendum - who said anything about a fair vote?  If people had wanted a rational decision they would have informed themselves of the facts and done studious research on the implications of leaving the EU, on the full meaning of the freedom of movement clauses of the treaty, on the opportunities and challenges of independent trade deals.

 

But instead, people chose to vote for slogans on buses.  They wanted shallow deception, and they voted for it, because they felt familiarly comfortable with it.  

 

You can't overturn the will of the people based on moral, political or legal niceties, nor pragmatic benevolence.  Some of the people have spoken.

 

SC

 

The slogans on buses were all vote leave propaganda, to call it the will of the people is ridiculous based on the circumstances surrounding the referendum. Much more information has emerged subsequently, and you might just find the number of people who have spoken is significantly less than you thought. A single second vote would make it clear, no best of three required. 

10 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Good to see Brexiteers still don’t have more to offer than conspiracy theories and lies.  

What have you got to offer!!  Democracy voted to leave, end off.  A "u turn" will discredit the British democratic system.  The UK has been savaged by financial speculators and bad governance since the vote was to leave. A federal Europe with its Own armies and unelected officials sealed it for me.  We are losing our sovereignty if we remain.

 

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

a) the referendum was not binding

b) before the referendum most people had lots of bad misinformation.

c) the Brexiters promised it would be easy to leave the EU, they promised the UK will have all the advantages of being in the EU without paying for it. The Brexiters spoke about all those wonderful things which would happen. This is what people voted for.

d) all the promises were obviously unrealistic. It's like somebody telling you something about that wonderful location with the perfect weather and the best restaurants. And you decide: Sure, I want to go there.
But then you check lots of details and find out the weather is not better, it's worse. And there are a few good restaurants but lots of bad places. And you think again: Is this really what I want?

e) People can always change their minds. Think i.e. about worst case that the majority of people think they want to start a war with XZY because the others are just such bad people. And then, after some more research, you find out that the others are not really so bad. What now? Should you still go to war? Or should you think again that maybe it's a good idea to stop that destructive idea now?

Over to you

a really good post. 

i'm German and I like to UK to stay in the EU,but I think they doing the right thing.Sure it will be difficult times for the UK,but it will get better.Until 1993 everything was great,until 1993 the EU was called EEC(European Economic Community]All was only about economic integration,customs union and common market,a good thing I would say,wish we had the EEC back.Everything what came after 1993 is mostly a disaster,nothing is thought through.Now is 2018 and the (costly)big water head in Brussels is acting like a giant imperator and telling every member state what they can do or not do.I no need the EU to tell the member states how many immigrants they have to take,or how much a phone call should cost or how much child benefit a bulgarian kid should receive while in Germany.This whole EU thing should stop now and roll back to EEC only.

The UK will get a shit Brexit deal from the EU.Why the EU should give them a good deal?If they do and the UK is doing well,other EU members will follow them.Still the UK  is doing the right thing,they did the right thing about "Schengen and Euro'and this time will be no difference

10 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

i'm German and I like to UK to stay in the EU,but I think they doing the right thing.Sure it will be difficult times for the UK,but it will get better.Until 1993 everything was great,until 1993 the EU was called EEC(European Economic Community]All was only about economic integration,customs union and common market,a good thing I would say,wish we had the EEC back.Everything what came after 1993 is mostly a disaster,nothing is thought through.Now is 2018 and the (costly)big water head in Brussels is acting like a giant imperator and telling every member state what they can do or not do.I no need the EU to tell the member states how many immigrants they have to take,or how much a phone call should cost or how much child benefit a bulgarian kid should receive while in Germany.This whole EU thing should stop now and roll back to EEC only.

The UK will get a shit Brexit deal from the EU.Why the EU should give them a good deal?If they do and the UK is doing well,other EU members will follow them.Still the UK  is doing the right thing,they did the right thing about "Schengen and Euro'and this time will be no difference

There is just one little flaw in your thinking. It's not 1993 anymore. The world changed a lot. We can dream about times which were better, and in part I agree with that. But now it is 2018 and we have people like Trump and Putin in charge and we have the internet everywhere, etc. The European countries must adjust to the here and now and be prepared for the future.

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Irony lives.

 

Brexiteer near begging for the EU to help out with failed Brexit.

 

And laces that with distrust in the UK Parliament.

 

A shining example of is where illogical thinking founded on emotions and lies leads to.

 

I’d laugh at this offering if it were not so pitiful.

 

Good grief!

 

So many posters (mostly remainers.....) don't realise that SoiCowboy is a remainer and taking the piss!

12 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

If the UK decides to withdraw their Article 50 intention to leave, would it be in the interests of British democracy for the EU to force us out regardless?

Yes.

15 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

SoiCowboy is a remainer and taking the piss!

I also like to remain in Soi Cowboy.

2 hours ago, leither69 said:

Democracy voted to leave, end off.  A "u turn" will discredit the British democratic system. 

The only thing that has discredited the British democratic system was to allow a referendum about a highly complex, high impact issue based on lies. 

 

2 hours ago, leither69 said:

We are losing our sovereignty if we remain.

Aren’t you getting tired of these same phrases? You’re not losing any sovereignty. Not more than you lose when doing trade deals on your own outside the EU, and certainly not to an extent that it would outweigh the benefits of staying. 

3 hours ago, leither69 said:

What have you got to offer!!  Democracy voted to leave, end off.  A "u turn" will discredit the British democratic system.  The UK has been savaged by financial speculators and bad governance since the vote was to leave. A federal Europe with its Own armies and unelected officials sealed it for me.  We are losing our sovereignty if we remain.

 

A U-turn would discredit the practice of arbitrary referenda to deal with internal party political squabbles, and would reinforce the sovereignty of Parliament.  I am not sure which of those two you are referring to as "the British democratic system".  

There is no "federal Europe with its own armies" and there are unelected officials working for all governments; it is an unusual system in which officials are elected, as well as the politicians.  

57 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The only thing that has discredited the British democratic system was to allow a referendum about a highly complex, high impact issue based on lies. 

 

Aren’t you getting tired of these same phrases? You’re not losing any sovereignty. Not more than you lose when doing trade deals on your own outside the EU, and certainly not to an extent that it would outweigh the benefits of staying. 

Benefits are for losers. 

 

Real men relish the hardship of going it alone, forging our own unique way into the wilderness with no-one to look over us except Queen Victoria on some old coins that we carry, and no-one to hold us back.  Armed with nothing but austerity and our boundless enthusiasm, over-arching arrogance and limited wits.

 

What could possibly go wrong?

 

SC

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The slogans on buses were all vote leave propaganda, to call it the will of the people is ridiculous based on the circumstances surrounding the referendum. Much more information has emerged subsequently, and you might just find the number of people who have spoken is significantly less than you thought. A single second vote would make it clear, no best of three required. 

You seem to think the lies and propaganda all came from one side, which is untrue.  

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The only thing that has discredited the British democratic system was to allow a referendum about a highly complex, high impact issue based on lies. 

 

Aren’t you getting tired of these same phrases? You’re not losing any sovereignty. Not more than you lose when doing trade deals on your own outside the EU, and certainly not to an extent that it would outweigh the benefits of staying. 

Another one who claims the lies were emitted from one side. 

6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The slogans on buses were all vote leave propaganda, to call it the will of the people is ridiculous based on the circumstances surrounding the referendum. Much more information has emerged subsequently, and you might just find the number of people who have spoken is significantly less than you thought. A single second vote would make it clear, no best of three required. 

Rubbish. One slogan on one bus with one idea, not a promise! What about all the fear forecasts coming from business and the government, up to and including the PM and Chancellor of the day? The propaganda came from both sides and at the very least was self-cancelling. Most of the recent so-called "information" is the continuation of "Project Fear", which has been incessant since the vote.