CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, MikeOKitches said:

????????????????????

Don't understand the reaction.

 

What I want and ready to pay 5000 ThB is that somebody ( agent ) do my work :

Taking copies

Going to Austrian Consulate with my passport and documents ( Proof of government pension and proof Office of Pension transfering monthly +/- equivalent of 80000 ThB on Belgian bankbook ) to get L.o.I.

Going to Immigration with my passport and all necessay documents

I will collect my passport with extension of 1 year as picture of myself has to been made.

 

So nothing illegal is involved.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

e old system didn't require even money to transfer -- I guess the Thai IMM folks got tired of that.

I could believe that if ALL Embassies  stopped their letters or Thai Imm refused all letters- and went to a new income system .  However, it really only applies to citizens of 4 countries as the other countries  still will provide the letter. I am happy for those citizens but I have a bad taste in my mouth that the US, UK and AU Embassies  could not work out a suitable compromise to keep the letters.  I thought that's what diplomats do- but I was wrong.

This has been debated  over thousands of posts so I will leave it there and find a way to  comply- inconvenient as it is for me.

[moe666]

6 minutes ago, davhend25 said:

What he said....

I do swift transfers and never leave my townhouse and my credit union calls me to confirm the transaction. They call me in Thailand at around 11pm I go to bed, wake up go to bank and transfer is done

[MikeOKitches]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

How could it be read any other way.

This is what is written in the amendment.

Hello again. I know you responded to me before on this matter, and assured me that income affidavits would be accepted as part of my Retirement Visa renewal application and that the directive was clear on this. Thank you for highlighting the language you were referencing to me before. 

You're saying that the phrase "income certification certified by the embassy or consular" should be interpreted to mean it's the equivalent of this document known as the "Income Affidavit?"

I believe this is where the confusion lies and may be open to interpretation. The "Income Affidavit" is a sworn declaration which a person makes in front of a US Embassy official and they notarize it. See attached image. From my understanding, a "income certification" would mean that the embassy would look at all your supporting financial documents and "certify" you meet Thai Immigration's income requirements.

It's a shame that Thai Immigration won't give a clear answer on whether they'll still honor Income Affidavits issued in late 2018 y the US Embassy (and other embassies) to be used in early 2019. Many of us got Income Affidavits from the US Embassy believing they would be valid for 6 months and still acceptable by Thai Immigration for Retirement Visa renewals. I suppose the best tact is to wait till there are field reports filed y Thai Visa members during this month and next on how Income Affidavits are treated. Accepted or rejected. 

 

[billsmart]

What does "in case of (6)" mean?

I imagine this has already been asked in previous posts, but I looked through about 10 (of 41) pages and didn't see any reference to this.

Anyone have an idea?

 

Never mind! I found the answer. It "grandfather's" in ex-pats who have had an OA continuously since 1998.

Edited January 8, 2019 by billsmart
Added some information.

[mogandave]

The old system is far worse because there are many people who swear on false affidavits.
 
I have seen many of these people who go for cheap meals like 20-30 baht and riding bicycles even though they have 65000 money transferred every month?
 
If they really have 65000 baht per month, they can even buy a small car.

So because people don’t spend all their money you think they don’t have it?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, MikeOKitches said:

You're saying that the phrase "income certification certified by the embassy or consular" should be interpreted to mean it's the equivalent of this document known as the "Income Affidavit?"

Yes it is the same for all intents and purposes. Immigration will still accept it/

[skatewash]

24 minutes ago, EricTh said:

The old system is far worse because there are many people who swear on false affidavits.

 

I have seen many of these people who go for cheap meals like 20-30 baht and riding bicycles even though they have 65000 money transferred every month?

 

If they really have 65000 baht per month, they can even buy a small car.

No doubt there were people who falsified their affidavits under the old system so I agree to some degree with your first paragraph.

The rest if it sort of makes me chuckle.

There are two ways to become rich:

 

1) is by earning lots of money

2) is by not spending lots of money

of course, you can even do both ????

In my case, it's probably 85% #2 and 15% #1.  Managed to make it to financial independence before many people but never managed to keep up with the Joneses.  Every day that I get to do what I want to do rather than what someone pays me to do is priceless to me.  For me being financially independent is being rich.  Others may not look at it that way, of course.

 

Me, I like bicycles.  I even like 20-30 baht meals, but living in Phuket I don't get to have them very often???? 

Edited January 8, 2019 by skatewash

[MikeOKitches]

7 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Don't understand the reaction.

 

What I want and ready to pay 5000 ThB is that somebody ( agent ) do my work :

Taking copies

Going to Austrian Consulate with my passport and documents ( Proof of government pension and proof Office of Pension transfering monthly +/- equivalent of 80000 ThB on Belgian bankbook ) to get L.o.I.

Going to Immigration with my passport and all necessay documents

I will collect my passport with extension of 1 year as picture of myself has to been made.

 

So nothing illegal is involved.

I misunderstood your post. I thought you were intimating the TH 5000 was tea money for the agent and TI visa overlord to "process" all of the "paperwork" (wink, wink). Based on my misconception, I chuckled since that figure of TH 5000 is absurdly low, since the going rate is 3 to 5 times that amount.

I apologize. 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, billsmart said:

What does "in case of (6)" mean?

This in clause 2.22 in police order 327/2557.

"(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:"

[khunbillmex]

Maybe this has been spotted earlier, the "Business-as-Usual" clause...

maybe they meant "...and in consistent procedures"?

Or since this was from the official translation maybe they meant it as written?

 

 

 

[ChokDee4213]

Quick question: if I transfer 480,000฿ in one month does this equate to the 12 month average of 40,000฿? So if ,my income averages 0-39,999.99฿/month, in the final months I can just transfer the difference from 480,000฿?

 

As usual, I'm sure a few 1,000฿ notes forgoes any real scrutiny anyway.

Edited January 8, 2019 by ChokDee4213
That "pension" vocab got me again. Same same income, I guess in this context.

[farangx]

39 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

I only got through the first 15 pages of this thread and finally gave up reading, so if my question has already been addressed, please excuse the redundancy. Most all of my money in Bangkok Bank is in a USDollar Foreign Currency Fixed Deposit Savings Account. I can have immediate access to the funds and can exchange the dollars by teller or through my online banking account, and the funds have been on deposit for nearly two years. The account total far exceeds even the 800,000 Thai Baht requirement, but will Immigration allow that type of account? Since one US Dollar has lost 4.6 Thai Baht since it's most recent high in 2017, if I were to exchange enough dollars to equal 800,000 baht, should that be required, I will theoretically have an opportunity loss of 115,000 Thai Baht given that I could leave the money in dollars and exchange it at a much higher rate in the years to come should it go back to that 2017 high. Since we were required to state US Dollars on our US Embassy Income Affidavit, it would seem only logical to me that Thai Immigration would accept a USD FCD Savings/Fixed Deposit Account just the same.

I am only guessing here.  You will need a bank letter that says you have a 800K in the bank.  If the bank can issue you that letter based on your foreign currency deposit, I see no reason why immigration won't accept it.  The bank should have no problem computing a daily balance of 800K or more over that 3 months, if the balance does fall short on any day, they cannot give you that letter.  I hope this makes sense to you.  You will have to confirm this with TI and your bank.

 

 

[AGareth2]

29 minutes ago, EricTh said:

The old system is far worse because there are many people who swear on false affidavits.

 

I have seen many of these people who go for cheap meals like 20-30 baht and riding bicycles even though they have 65000 money transferred every month?

 

If they really have 65000 baht per month, they can even buy a small car.

those cheap meals can be healthy

and riding a bike is good cardiovascular exercise

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, MikeOKitches said:

I apologize. 

No need too.

You misunderstood,

or than, more plausible, my English being bad I wrongly expressed myself.

[skatewash]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

This in clause 2.22 in police order 327/2557.

"(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:"

It's the grandfathering clause.  The part of the order that allows old-timers (people who have been on continuous annual extensions of stay since a particular date) keep the old (and much lower) balance requirements to obtain their annual extensions of stay.  Hopefully, if the requirements are raised in the future there will be a similar grandfathering clause that will apply to us.

[davhend25]

I'm from the U.S. I live in a small village in Eastern Thailand (Chanthaburi Province).  I currently withdraw monthly about 35,000 baht from my local Bangkok Bank ATM. This amount covers all of my and my Thai partner's expenses each month. It also leaves me enough money in my U.S. bank account to cover my bills each month back there. 

 

If I transfer 65,000 each month into a Thai account, it won't leave me enough in my U.S. bank account to pay my U.S. based debts. So, I will need to transfer some back each month (which I'm not sure is kosher to the new law) What a headache!! I also don't have a Thai bank account, and from what I've been reading on this forum, and elsewhere, opening one is a giant hassle as well.  

 

I also don't have 800,000 baht to "park" in a useless Thai bank account...does anyone have the name of a good "Agent?"       

[skatewash]

1 minute ago, davhend25 said:

I'm from the U.S. I live in a small village in Eastern Thailand (Chanthaburi Province).  I currently withdraw monthly about 35,000 baht from my local Bangkok Bank ATM. This amount covers all of my and my Thai partner's expenses each month. It also leaves me enough money in my U.S. bank account to cover my bills each month back there. 

 

If I transfer 65,000 each month into a Thai account, it won't leave me enough in my U.S. bank account to pay my U.S. based debts. So, I will need to transfer some back each month (which I'm not sure is kosher to the new law) What a headache!! I also don't have a Thai bank account, and from what I've been reading on this forum, and elsewhere, opening one is a giant hassle as well.  

 

I also don't have 800,000 baht to "park" in a useless Thai bank account...does anyone have the name of a good "Agent?"       

Not in any way offering a recommendation, but if you were to marry your Thai partner, the financial requirements would drop to 40,000 baht a month or 400,000 in a Thai bank account.  Just saying ????

[Russell17au]

33 minutes ago, EricTh said:

The old system is far worse because there are many people who swear on false affidavits.

 

I have seen many of these people who go for cheap meals like 20-30 baht and riding bicycles even though they have 65000 money transferred every month?

 

If they really have 65000 baht per month, they can even buy a small car.

I like to go to several different places to eat and the food is great and it only costs around the 30-40 baht plus I like to ride a pushbike so I am a cheap Charlie in accordance of your stuck up standards. Oh, I almost forgot that I OWN an Isuzu pick up and a Honda Click as well. I have never had to swear a false declaration but I will find that this new system is a lot better than the old system.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I like to go to several different places to eat and the food is great and it only costs around the 30-40 baht plus I like to ride a pushbike so I am a cheap Charlie in accordance of your stuck up standards. Oh, I almost forgot that I OWN an Isuzu pick up and a Honda Click as well. I have never had to swear a false declaration but I will find that this new system is a lot better than the old system.

Agree with almost all of your post. A man after my own heart.

 

However, Isuzu pickup? Really? Everyone should have a red line when it comes to standards.

[farangx]

6 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I like to go to several different places to eat and the food is great and it only costs around the 30-40 baht plus I like to ride a pushbike so I am a cheap Charlie in accordance of your stuck up standards. Oh, I almost forgot that I OWN an Isuzu pick up and a Honda Click as well. I have never had to swear a false declaration but I will find that this new system is a lot better than the old system.

Then the income rules changes do not affect you at all.  What's a few hundred bucks more a year in bank fees? ????

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by farangx

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, farangx said:

Then the income rules changes do not affect you at all.  What's a few hundred bucks more a year in bank fees? ????

 

I don't have any bank fees

My money is deposited directly into my Thai bank account from the Reserve bank of Australia which is the Australian government bank and there are no fees plus it is paid at a higher exchange rate than any commercial bank pays. So you are another one who does not know what they are talking about

[farangx]

 

9 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

16 minutes ago, farangx said:

Then the income rules changes do not affect you at all.  What's a few hundred bucks more a year in bank fees? ????

 

I don't have any bank fees

My money is deposited directly into my Thai bank account from the Reserve bank of Australia which is the Australian government bank and there are no fees plus it is paid at a higher exchange rate than any commercial bank pays. So you are another one who does not know what they are talking about

Okay, then how do the new rules affect you financially?  And believe me I do know some are sensitive on issues like this.

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by farangx

[DPKANKAN]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That was just a preliminary rough translation of the amendment. The one posted is in this topic the important one to read.

Supposedly yes. But as I pointed out before, read it again!! It states "...since January 2019, to proceed to good orders and INconsistent procedures..." Unfortunately, it is the inconsistent procedures (and English translations) that lead to confusion!

[racyrick]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The local branch sends everything to the main office in Bangkok. They scan the SF 1199A form and send it to Manila by email. That is how it was done when I opened my direct deposit account.

But what if you already are receiving benefits to another bank?

You obviously do not need to fill out an initial set up form, do you?

I would think you would have would just need to complete a direct deposit service application form and open a direct deposit savings account and fill out and send a change of bank details for your direct deposit or call SSA and give them the new bank details-correct?

[AGareth2]

2 minutes ago, DPKANKAN said:

Supposedly yes. But as I pointed out before, read it again!! It states "...since January 2019, to proceed to good orders and INconsistent procedures..." Unfortunately, it is the inconsistent procedures (and English translations) that lead to confusion!

luckily English is not the language of the Thai govt

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

don't have any bank fees

Good for you.

Many are not so lucky,

but accept that sometimes there are costs/expenses to get what ones want.

[sqwakvfr]

Davhend25, I am in the same position.  I could do the 65,000 monthly transfers but I would often have to send part of it back to the US Bank on a reverse transfer.  The 65K Transfer is ideal for anyone who has pretty much cut ites with his/her home country.  I still have financial assets and obligations back in the US.  I also have US Bank issue credit cards and I often use them for travel.  

[totally thaied up]

15 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

My money is deposited directly into my Thai bank account from the Reserve bank of Australia which is the Australian government bank and there are no fees plus it is paid at a higher exchange rate than any commercial bank pays. So you are another one who does not know what they are talking about

 

12 minutes ago, farangx said:

Okay, then how do the new rules affect you financially?  And believe me I do know some are sensitive on issues like this.

 

Well, when one day the AUD will drop a lot more and your Australian pension does not meet the 40K you need for the monthly amount. The 400K method is currently much safer I feel but I suppose I better learn how to use the Reserve bank of Australia method to save on a few fees. 

[scubascuba3]

If you guys switch bank accounts, proving 12 months with two banks will be tricky