CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[rjwill01]

So, if I continue to withdraw 65000 baht from my US Bank account by use of Bangkok ATM machine and then deposit that money to my Bangkok bank checking account, I am Ok if Bangkok Bank certifies those deposits each month.  Correct?

[Pib]

1 hour ago, racyrick said:

But what if you already are receiving benefits to another bank?

You obviously do not need to fill out an initial set up form, do you?

I would think you would have would just need to complete a direct deposit service application form and open a direct deposit savings account and fill out and send a change of bank details for your direct deposit or call SSA and give them the new bank details-correct?

You need to open an account at the other bank (if not already having a Direct Deposit account at Bangkok Bank), have Bangkok Bank complete the SSA-1199A direct deposit form which has the necessary info for that account, and then that form goes to Manila.  Then the SSA will process that form which ends up redirecting your monthly SSA payment to the bank account. 

 

But in "may" take a one to two months to take effect as slow as SSA can move sometimes and considering monthly processing cutoff dates to ensure you next payment goes to the new bank.   For the routine monthly payment, SSA sends payment instructions to the US Treasury one to two weeks before the actual payment is made....the US Treasury is actually the one making the payment based on instructions provided to them by the SSA.  

Edited January 8, 2019 by Pib

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, rjwill01 said:

So, if I continue to withdraw 65000 baht from my US Bank account by use of Bangkok ATM machine and then deposit that money to my Bangkok bank checking account, I am Ok if Bangkok Bank certifies those deposits each month.  Correct?

I don't think so. They are domestic cash deposits not international transfers.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I don't know how many times it's been said.

 

Just download the transaction slip and you have  rock solid proof that it was an international transfer.

Coupled with a home bank account statement recording the initial debit to TW (which, of course, equals the "Amount paid" at the start of the TW confirmation report), what more convincing proof would be needed of the international origin of a particular transfer?

 

The Thai bank passbook code need not IMHO be the all-important issue that many on here seem to make it out to be!

[tracy3eyes]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 11:18 AM, zydeco said:

From the above translation:

 

This once again seems to relate to a point I made last night in the other thread. Using the above example moved to August 2019, you would then need "payment evidence" from September 2019. If you are an American receiving social security, you did not receive a September pension payment. It came on August 31, instead, because of the Labor Day holiday. How will you explain this to the banks and immigration? Will they care?

But what evidence do you show for your extension renewal in Oct 19 when you don't have an income letter?

 

For Oct 20 you show bank income deposits from Nov 19 to Oct 20 =12 or if doing 30 or 45 days early you would show  Aug 19 & Sept 19 deposits to Sept 20 giving the 12 months.

 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, rjwill01 said:

So, if I continue to withdraw 65000 baht from my US Bank account by use of Bangkok ATM machine and then deposit that money to my Bangkok bank checking account, I am Ok if Bangkok Bank certifies those deposits each month.  Correct?

I bet a bunch of money Bangkok Bank (or any Thai bank) would "not" certify any document saying the funds arrived via international transfer based on funds you got via ATM and then deposited into the bank.   Because you deposited those funds into Bangkok Bank it was then a "domestic" deposit and it gets coded as such.   

[Mango Bob]

It is worthless to send your Social Security Payment by direct Deposit because I would still not meet the 65,000 baht requirement for me.   So I would still have to do a Transfer of Funds anyway.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Mango Bob

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Coupled with a home bank account statement recording the initial debit to TW (which, of course, equals the "Amount paid" at the start of the TW confirmation report), what more convincing proof would be needed of the international origin of a particular transfer?

 

The Thai bank passbook code need not IMHO be the all-important issue that many on here seem to make it out to be!

Thai Immigration will be the one making that decision.  But their new guidance does say "Thai bank letter and bank statement" (that's a Thai bank statement/passbook) required to prove funds were transferred from overseas. 

 

I doubt any/most immigration office is going to want to see any other type of documentation like a TW receipt (easily forged).  Or an  ATM slip and your story how the money was withdrawn from your home country bank account and then you immediately deposited the money into your Thai bank account where it got coded as a domestic deposit vs international deposit/transfer.

 

The new policy is using the KISS approach regarding documentation---and the documentation required is "Thai bank" documentation that is freshly generated, signed, and stamped; not documentation from other sources in various languages and in various formats.

 

[TMEXSUB]

27 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yes it is still an option, and based on your numbers you qualify.

Thank you very much for that ????

[Ban Phe Dezza]

1 hour ago, farangx said:

I am only guessing here.  You will need a bank letter that says you have a 800K in the bank.  If the bank can issue you that letter based on your foreign currency deposit, I see no reason why immigration won't accept it.  The bank should have no problem computing a daily balance of 800K or more over that 3 months, if the balance does fall short on any day, they cannot give you that letter.  I hope this makes sense to you.  You will have to confirm this with TI and your bank.

 

 

I had mine in Australian Dollars and no dram'as with bank. Had Issue at I/O as Bangkok bank do not give you a Bankbook only Foreign Bank certificates they are yellow in colour at least they were in my case and I/o had difficulties with them this was a couple of years ago so things may have changed  

[Nyezhov]

25 minutes ago, Dugdown said:

A simple copy/paste of the wording as found on the existing Income Affidavit form would be the easiest

But not the best.

[Moonlover]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

Thai Immigration will be the one making that decision.  But their new guidance does say "Thai bank letter and bank statement" (that's a Thai bank statement/passbook) required to prove funds were transferred from overseas. 

 

I doubt any/most immigration office is going to want to see any other type of documentation like a TW receipt (easily forged).  Or an  ATM slip and your story how the money was withdrawn from your home country bank account and then you immediately deposited the money into your Thai bank account where it got coded as a domestic deposit vs international deposit/transfer.

 

The new policy is using the KISS approach regarding documentation---and the documentation required is "Thai bank" documentation that is freshly generated, signed, and stamped; not documentation from other sources in various languages and in various formats.

 

Thank you for going to all this trouble, but as has already been stated, T/W transaction slips might be of benefit when approaching the bank for the confirmation letter. Not for proving anything directly to TI.

 

ML

[tracy3eyes]

If renewal is in Oct 19 but you are renewing 45 days early e.g 1st Sept are you supposed to show bank deposits for Jan 19 to Aug/Sept 19?  if so then having to deposit from Jan 19 then little notice?

 

Also transferring net income of 65k may leave no money for monthly home country commitments.

 

And for 2020 if renewing early would you need to show deposits from Aug/Sept 19 to Aug/Sept 20?

Edited January 8, 2019 by tracy3eyes

[JackThompson]

29 minutes ago, rjwill01 said:

So, if I continue to withdraw 65000 baht from my US Bank account by use of Bangkok ATM machine and then deposit that money to my Bangkok bank checking account, I am Ok if Bangkok Bank certifies those deposits each month.  Correct?

 

No.  You need Foreign Transfers (not cash pulled from an ATM) into your Thai account every month.  That is what the new letter the bank will be printing for immigration will rely on.

 

25 minutes ago, OJAS said:

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I don't know how many times it's been said.

 

Just download the transaction slip and you have  rock solid proof that it was an international transfer.

Coupled with a home bank account statement recording the initial debit to TW (which, of course, equals the "Amount paid" at the start of the TW confirmation report), what more convincing proof would be needed of the international origin of a particular transfer?

 

The Thai bank passbook code need not IMHO be the all-important issue that many on here seem to make it out to be!

IOs aren't going to be looking through your "proof" documents - foreign account statements, and TW PDF (both of which could be easily faked). 

 

If it doesn't show up on the letter generated and stamped by your Thai Bank, which will likely show a list of foreign-transfer deposits to your account, you will be out of luck. 

 

But, as long as you have money to spare, you can send 65K Baht with Transferwise, then see how it shows up on the Thai-Account.  If it shows without a foreign-transfer code, then SWIFT another 65K Baht, so you have that month covered.  As far as we know, there is no way to predict which "partner bank" they will use (for a collection of transfers, which are then parsed-out to the individual Thai accounts) - so it's a roll of the dice.  Some may get lucky, and get foreign-transfer codes 12 times in a row.

Edited January 8, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Thank you for going to all this trouble, but as has already been stated, T/W transaction slips might be of benefit when approaching the bank for the confirmation letter. Not for proving anything directly to TI.

 

ML

Once the bank letter-format is set, ask the bank-mgr - showing one of these TW "slips." But, anything sent unless/until they say they will do this should be considered as potentially "not counting" towards one's income-proof.  And, of course, their policy could change by the time you get around to getting your letter - so still a risk.

 

I don't think banks will be custom-writing those letters, after looking at 3rd party documents.  Their credibility is on the line.  I can already hear the, "I am sorry, sir, but ..." 

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Thank you for going to all this trouble, but as has already been stated, T/W transaction slips might be of benefit when approaching the bank for the confirmation letter. Not for proving anything directly to TI.

The banks certification will only state the account is valid and etc It will be about the same as the letter used for the 400k/800k baht in the bank option. 

[Pib]

Yeap.  For the current Bt800K/Bt400K deposit method the Thai bank letter is very basic/simple....just confirms you do have an account with them on date of issue, how much money you currently have in the bank, your name/address/etc.  It does not talk if the money has been seasoned for X-months.   And then a copy of your Thai passbook and/or bank statement is attached to that letter which has also just been updated at the bank. That passbook/statement is what the immigration officer looks at closely to ensure the required amount for the required seasoning period has been complied with.  The passbook/statement is really the key document....the bank letter is really just confirming you indeed have a bank account which provides strong proof the passbook is not fake.

 

I expect when using the income method to prove monthly international transfers of X-amount that the passbook/statement which will also show/confirm "international transfer coding/description" will be the key document the immigration officer reviews.  

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Pib

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

A foreign currency deposit account in Thailand does qualify providing balance remains above equivalent of 800k baht during the seasoning period. (Likely based on the rate at the time the application for extension is made).

Udon Thani office will not accept it.

[Ebumbu]

On 1/7/2019 at 2:41 AM, NanLaew said:

Agreed. That's the only possible misinformation that I could see and wondered if it is different qualification or just inconsistent translation.

 

Beyond that, the (usual) stress monkeys are having a field day.

 

I'm reading through pages. Sorry if this has been covered. My question is about the word AVERAGE (or lack of) as it relates to the retirement extension. Say I bring in 65,000 in January. Then I bring in 40,000 in February. Skip March (zero). And bring in 300,000 in April. Are they going to do a yearly average or are they requiring an absolute monthly number of 65,000 or more? 

 

If the latter, I'm going to need to use the merry-go-round method because my income is not the same every month. The AVERAGE is safely over 65,000, but it's vacillates. If they accept an average, great. Otherwise, I'm ringing up the agents. Any ideas? Is there leniency on this matter in 2019? 

 

 

[sfokevin]

36 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The banks certification will only state the account is valid and etc It will be about the same as the letter used for the 400k/800k baht in the bank option. 

Agreed... Bank are basically going to print out a standard one year bank statement and give it a bunch of pretty red stamps and charge you 2-500 baht... If a transactions coding does not have a foreign code designation you should be prepared to have backup to show immigration for these transactions... Assuming your statement shows consistency (monthly deposits on or about the same date) and you can show some evidence the monthly transfers are from abroad you should be fine.

[mogandave]

Yeap.  For the current Bt800K/Bt400K deposit method the Thai bank letter is very basic/simple....just confirms you do have an account with them on date of issue, how much money you currently have in the bank, your name/address/etc.  It does not talk if the money has been seasoned for X-months.   And then a copy of your Thai passbook and/or bank statement is attached to that letter which has also just been updated at the bank. That passbook/statement is what the immigration officer looks at closely to ensure the required amount for the required seasoning period has been complied with.  The passbook/statement is really the key document....the bank letter is really just confirming you indeed have a bank account which provides strong proof the passbook is not fake.
 
I expect when using the income method to prove monthly international transfers of X-amount that the passbook/statement which will also show/confirm "international transfer coding/description" will be the key document the immigration officer reviews.  
 
 
 

If I had to guess, I would say the IO will likely review a letter certified by the bank and either a statement or passbook

[cbc]

what does this mean for expats that can still get issued letters of income verification from their embassies ie Canadian embassy still issuing income verification letters.

[Moonlover]

22 minutes ago, Pib said:

I expect when using the income method to prove monthly international transfers of X-amount that the passbook/statement which will also show/confirm "international transfer coding/description" will be the key document the immigration officer reviews.  

Things will very quickly unravel if anyone relies solely on the transaction code. As we're already aware, T/W transactions vary from bank to bank. Pension payments can also be problematic because they do not always show as foreign transactions either.

 

At least not with Krungsri they don't. Both military and state pensions are coded TN, which are indistinguishable from domestic deposits.

 

But let's not get too het up shall we? Surely, before making the decision to go ahead with this new system, TI will discussed it with the banking sector to ensure that it could actually be done.

 

Or am I being a bit naive?

[rjwill01]

3 hours ago, davhend25 said:

What he said....

Exactly my situation. I started with direct deposits to Bangkok bank of New York, but had to go to bank for withdraws to put into my Bangkok Bank Checking account. The direct deposit account cannot be used for paying bills and cannot used online. So I started using the ATM and deposited funds into deposit machines outside of Bank. All for not now.  

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, cbc said:

what does this mean for expats that can still get issued letters of income verification from their embassies ie Canadian embassy still issuing income verification letters.

In means you still get to use the that method.   It just the folks who can't get those embassy income letters anymore must use the new income method.

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, cbc said:

what does this mean for expats that can still get issued letters of income verification from their embassies ie Canadian embassy still issuing income verification letters.

You now have the added choice of proving income via transfers to your Thai bank, or continuing with the embassy letter.

[ocddave]

The immigration Offices should probably just take over Affidavits themselves, then we can swear to the authenticity directly to them. They can collect their $50 fee (appr 1600 baht), and if they feel someone is dodgy on their paperwork, they can demand more proof, if found lying they can then prosecute/fine/deport at will. Why even bother dealing with the multitude of foreign embassies that aren't checking the documents anyway?

Edited January 8, 2019 by ocddave

[elviajero]

19 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

I'm reading through pages. Sorry if this has been covered. My question is about the word AVERAGE (or lack of) as it relates to the retirement extension. Say I bring in 65,000 in January. Then I bring in 40,000 in February. Skip March (zero). And bring in 300,000 in April. Are they going to do a yearly average or are they requiring an absolute monthly number of 65,000 or more? 

 

If the latter, I'm going to need to use the merry-go-round method because my income is not the same every month. The AVERAGE is safely over 65,000, but it's vacillates. If they accept an average, great. Otherwise, I'm ringing up the agents. Any ideas? Is there leniency on this matter in 2019? 

The answer is unknown at this point. But as the existing ‘rules’ stand a minimum of 65K every month is required, and there is no mention allowing for an average. 

 

IMO they will insist on 12 transfers, and we will have to wait and see if they accept an average. I can’t see them accepting the example you give.

[tracy3eyes]

I have read through 47 pages and failed to see one clear example of what one does if renewing their retirement extension in the 2nd half of 2019 using the monthly income transfer deposit method! Apologies for my multiple posts but perhaps I failed to ask the question correctly.

 

So if I renew in Sept/Oct 19 (within the 45 days window) what in terms of pension/income do I need to show?

 

 

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, tracy3eyes said:

I have read through 47 pages and failed to see one clear example of what one does if renewing their retirement extension in the 2nd half of 2019 using the monthly income transfer deposit method! Apologies for my multiple posts but perhaps I failed to ask the question correctly.

 

So if I renew in Sept/Oct 19 (within the 45 days window) what in terms of pension/income do I need to show?

The rules state a full year of monthly transfers, but there is some leeway in the first year.  So, if you start making monthly foreign-transfers of 65K Baht into a Thai Bank account in your name now, when it is time for your extension in Sept, you should be able to get a letter from your Thai Bank certifying those transfers, and have no problem with your extension.