Kasikorn Bank can't confirm UK pension comes from abroad?

[SooKee]

Hit the boredom threshold with the Transferwise / Kasikorn audit trail so went and opened an account at Bangkok Bank.  Surprised how easy it was (updated the 'Opening a bank account in Thailand' thread under Banking).  Even managed to wrangle further value for money out of the income affidavit I applied for end of last year and used that as my embassy reference.

[farangx]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The banks should realise that if using Transferwise the funds did originate from overseas, its just a processing technicality that TW probably send a bulk amount every day and then transfer locally. They should just deem all TW transactions as overseas (why would anyone transfer local to local using TW except TW). Maybe the banks will think a bit more following the new immigration requirements

If Kbank gets money from TMB, will Kbank be happy to ask TMB for info of the money, and then TMB will have to find out where that money came from.  Technically, all the money going into your bank account can be coming from overseas in this manner.

[colinchaffers]

I contacted TransferWise regarding the problem of transfers not being coded as international with Kasikorn Bank and this is the reply I have received
 

"Thanks for getting in touch.

 

Yes, we indeed have very many customers who are expats and send money to Thailand regularly. However, we haven’t really seen them run into this kind of trouble very often. Since we send the THB out from our local account in Thailand, we are unable to provide any documents that prove that the transfer came from overseas.

All we can offer is our deposit note PDF and the transfer receipt PDF documents. I have attached the deposit note and receipt for your most recent transfer to this email. These documents show that you deposited a foreign source currency and the payment was sent out to the targeted local THB currency. However, we can not guarantee that the Thai authorities will accept these as a credit advice.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please don’t hesitate to ask."

 

Unless you have a Bangkok Bank account the only option I can see is to change to a Swift Transfer at greater expense.

 

OFX sends the money, and their rate is marginally worse than TW, they use Bangkok bank as the receiving bank, I've not tried the system but it should work.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[farangx]

Look, it is obvious that some of us find the paper trail incomplete with some of these transactions. If you think the IO has better brain than us, don't even go there .... ????

[scubascuba3]

If Kbank gets money from TMB, will Kbank be happy to ask TMB for info of the money, and then TMB will have to find out where that money came from.  Technically, all the money going into your bank account can be coming from overseas in this manner.

After working in banks for years these small changes to codes and systems that may be required could take months maybe years

[Suradit69]

5 hours ago, allen303 said:

I am in the Us at the moment and regardless, this has a lot of information on moving money across countries (UK or Us). I just happen to also have a Credit Union acc. So glad to help with the answer. As for as Credit Unions, my CU will not do it. My understanding is IAT format is used by large corporations to move pay rolls and other large amounts of money. We can't use IAT if that's what it is called.

Well that's wonderful.

 

Since you asked:

 

Quote

 Is many one else in US using a Credit Union?

in a thread with "UK Pensions" in the title, I assumed you wouldn't get much useful information here or relevant responses to your question and suggested you post your question in a new thread in the Home County Forum with "US Credit Union" in the title, but if you're getting useful information here, that's great.

[Sheryl]

30 minutes ago, farangx said:

If Kbank gets money from TMB, will Kbank be happy to ask TMB for info of the money, and then TMB will have to find out where that money came from.  Technically, all the money going into your bank account can be coming from overseas in this manner.

I very, very much doubt that. Why would they be happy to call around to other banks? They are going to tell you sorry, we don't have the information in our system, full stop.

 

You however can certainly get a statement from TMB confirming that a transfer for you  came from abroad and that they in turn forwarded those funds to your Kasikorn account.  You can then bring that to Kasikorn and they might (no guarantee) based on that be willing to put the details into a letter to immigration. If not,  you show immigration the TMB letter yourself along with the letter from Kasikorn and your pass book and try to explain it to them.

 

I have nto used TW but was planning to switch to it. I'll hold off until I see what happens to others in this regard.

 

 

[Sheryl]

43 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Hit the boredom threshold with the Transferwise / Kasikorn audit trail so went and opened an account at Bangkok Bank.  Surprised how easy it was (updated the 'Opening a bank account in Thailand' thread under Banking).  Even managed to wrangle further value for money out of the income affidavit I applied for end of last year and used that as my embassy reference.

However be warned that some TW transfers will come in not through  Bangkok Bank but through either TMB or Kasikorn in which case it will show as domestic.  As far as we have been able to determine so far there is no way to know which bank TW will use, they seem to use BB the most often but it is not exclusively.

[ocddave]

2 hours ago, farangx said:

Immigration don't handle financial matters, it is not their job otherwise they would also be flying planes.  Your bank will have to know where all your monies are going in and coming out from.  If they don't do you expect immigration to know better or that they take over from the bank by asking for new resources and expertise to something they have no idea about?

 

I expect them to understand a situation before making decree's about how to handle things without thinking them through, but as usual that would be too much to ask.

[Sheryl]

46 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The banks should realise that if using Transferwise the funds did originate from overseas, its just a processing technicality that TW probably send a bulk amount every day and then transfer locally. They should just deem all TW transactions as overseas (why would anyone transfer local to local using TW except TW). Maybe the banks will think a bit more following the new immigration requirements

The bank has no way of knowing it is a TW transaction if they are not the initial receiving bank. All they know is that they receive a domestic transfer from another Thai bank.

 

The info that it is a TW transaction, and where it originated from, is only with the initial receiving bank.

[Henryford]

All of this speculation about Bank codes is useless until we know what the Immigration offices will want to support the "abroad" criteria. I can't see every IO going through each of your 12 receipts to check the bank codes on each one (which will be different from each bank). For 2019 anyway none of us will have 12 receipts in time for our extensions.

[trd]

I'm going to get my UK pension paid into my sterling FCD account at Krungsri Bank. That record will obviously show up as overseas payments and I will use that record to calculate the combination required for retirement extension. Job done. Who needs Transferwise. I already use my FCD account with the full 800k for immigration.

[scubascuba3]

The bank has no way of knowing it is a TW transaction if they are not the initial receiving bank. All they know is that they receive a domestic transfer from another Thai bank.
 
The info that it is a TW transaction, and where it originated from, is only with the initial receiving bank.

Its a problem the banks need to solve, but why would they bother unless Immigration pursue it. Would take a year + to get codes and processes changed. I can't see it happening. I guess the sensible solution would be to provide back up to the bank or immigration depending on who wants proof

[Moonlover]

23 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

On the website, at the bottom of every page, is an option "Help Centre". Click on it and you will see an option "Contact Us" on the right hand side, second line down of the page. Click on this and you will see options to email, chat(live) or phone.

And they are very efficient too. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, colinchaffers said:

This was TW response when I contacted, but it's not consistent as some payment do appear to be international

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I have just sent TW an email querying this. I also looked up their Swift code for KBank and it is nothing like the one I used before for years.

[Sheryl]

I think the more people for contact TW about this the better. If they understand that this is an issue for a significant number of customers they might take measures such as enabling you to select which bank the money goes to or at least making it just one bank all the time so that people can then set up their accounts accordingly.

 

The TW reply to another member shown earlier was incorrect in saying there is no way TW incoming can show as international. It can and does at the initial receiving back. The problem arises only when that bank in turn transfers to another bank in Thailand, at that point it is indeed a domestic transfer.

[Moonlover]

23 hours ago, OJAS said:

As I have commented on the latest mega-thread, I would have thought it possible to establish a trail for a TransferWise transfer from one’s home bank account to one’s Thai bank account, regardless of how it is coded at the Thai end, via (1) a home bank account statement indicating the initial debit to TransferWise, and (2) the TransferWise confirmation report which indicates the amount paid (equalling the home bank account debit) and, subsequently, the amount of the THB conversion plus details of the Thai bank account which is to be credited, for verification against the passbook in due course. Certainly it is my intention, when I eventually ask my bank for a certification letter, to arm myself with copies of relevant home bank account statements and TransferWise confirmation reports, in addition to my Thai bank passbook.

 

I'm right up there with you. It's also possible to have ones pensions paid directly into a T/W borderless account and you're able to produce a transaction slip to prove that as well. To me it seems both infallible and a very simple system to operate.

 

There have been a few folk say that 'ah but, you can forge a T/W transaction slip'. Well I've got the answer to that one as well. In your pocket or your 'man bag' is your mobile device which has the excellent T/W mobile app on it. Crack it open and you can access every single transaction right down to the last satang and the date it was deposited.

 

To my mind it's the best solution out there and I've already set it up.

 

Addendum: Another benefit I overlooked. It is very easy for Madam Moon to operate and as a backup, she has the T/W app on her tablet. So in case of accident or illness she is able to keep the brass flowing in.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Moonlover

[SooKee]

However be warned that some TW transfers will come in not through  Bangkok Bank but through either TMB or Kasikorn in which case it will show as domestic.  As far as we have been able to determine so far there is no way to know which bank TW will use, they seem to use BB the most often but it is not exclusively.

  Sure. And as you say. We don't know. But I'd rather mess around, if I have to, chasing one or two transactions out of 12 than 10 or 11. Likely a better chance with the IO if just one or two have gone adrift. I know others who use TW and BKK and they all show up. Anyways, we each have access to the mish-mash of information around this issue. Down to the individual to make choices that they feel will prove to be the least problematic. Job done for me. Over and out.

 

 

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[farangx]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I very, very much doubt that. Why would they be happy to call around to other banks? They are going to tell you sorry, we don't have the information in our system, full stop.

Sheryl, I understood what you have said in your posts and I know you know what I am driving at.

 

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

You however can certainly get a statement from TMB confirming that a transfer for you  came from abroad and that they in turn forwarded those funds to your Kasikorn account.  You can then bring that to Kasikorn and they might (no guarantee) based on that be willing to put the details into a letter to immigration. If not,  you show immigration the TMB letter yourself along with the letter from Kasikorn and your pass book and try to explain it to them.

That is good initiative on your part in getting TMB to confirm in writing that the money was from overseas to cover all the bases.  Understandably, Kasikorn bank is unlikely to update their system due to their own practises.  Things can get complicated if the money arrives at Bangkok Bank, then got routed to TMB and finally into Kasikorn bank after intra-bank settlements. Whichever the case, the account holder must bring it upon herself/himself to follow the money.

 

For now, as per the TW reply posted that they used 3 local banks as recipents, luck is needed to get that 12 ducks in a row. 

 

[scubascuba3]

We need lots of guinea pigs going down Immigration with there mix of Intl and domestic transfers and report back what happened. Until then its all the same stuff

[SooKee]

That is good initiative on your part in getting TMB to confirm in writing that the money was from overseas to cover all the bases.  Understandably, Kasikorn bank is unlikely to update their system due to their own practises.  Things can get complicated if the money arrives at Bangkok Bank, then got routed to TMB and finally into Kasikorn bank after intra-bank settlements. Whichever the case, the account holder must bring it upon herself/himself to follow the money.
 
For now, as per the TW reply posted that they used 3 local banks as recipents, luck is needed to get that 12 ducks in a row. 
 

I'm not sure the bank that receives the money from TW would give you, the end recipient, the details though. Great if I'm wrong but at the end of the day, I would have thought that Transfer Wise is the only party that has any business / customer relationship with that bank to permit disclosure of details, not you as the payee. Won't know until somebody tries I guess.


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[SooKee]

I think the more people for contact TW about this the better. If they understand that this is an issue for a significant number of customers they might take measures such as enabling you to select which bank the money goes to or at least making it just one bank all the time so that people can then set up their accounts accordingly.
 
The TW reply to another member shown earlier was incorrect in saying there is no way TW incoming can show as international. It can and does at the initial receiving back. The problem arises only when that bank in turn transfers to another bank in Thailand, at that point it is indeed a domestic transfer.

Trouble is I've had TW send funds to Kasikorn where Kasikorn was the business partner they used. Still shows up as 'Local Transfer'.

The key seems to be method they use to send the funds, SWIFT or not, not the banking partner. For me at least, comparing my only two transactions that show as IFTC, they were both sent by SWIFT. Unless someone other than BKK Bank customers have transactions showing as IFTC / International where SWIFT was not used.


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[farangx]

10 minutes ago, SooKee said:

I'm not sure the bank that receives the money from TW would give you, the end recipient, the details though. Great if I'm wrong but at the end of the day, I would have thought that Transfer Wise is the only party that has any business / customer relationship with that bank to permit disclosure of details, not you as the payee. Won't know until somebody tries I guess.

Did you not read or understood Sherly's posts, she even posted an attachment which is self-explanatory.

 

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

You however can certainly get a statement from TMB confirming that a transfer for you  came from abroad and that they in turn forwarded those funds to your Kasikorn account.

I am trying to wrap my head around me walking into TMB Branch Office (who I have no account or banking relationship with) And with my terrible Thai language skills explaining my predicament and requesting such information.... 

[UKresonant]

I've skipped a few pages ...

But just for info Krungsi FCD account statement shows a code of SWF (SWIFT DEPOSIT) against the credit column entry of SWIFT transfers from the Halifax in the U.K. (£9.50ish a transfer, Krungsi charge 1% (minimum 500 baht) per deposit. If they could print off the last 12 months statements (in case a statement goes a stray in the post), would clearly show deposits.

No passbooks for IO to look at though, requirement does say "statement"

[farangx]

23 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

We need lots of guinea pigs going down Immigration with there mix of Intl and domestic transfers and report back what happened. Until then its all the same stuff

and thanks in advance ....

[Dumbastheycome]

Bullshit. Offshore  Banks  from which  any transfer  is  made is identifiable.Primarily due to  transactions being  open to scrutiny for reason of funding terrorism, laundering etc. Between  any  countries.

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I think the more people for contact TW about this the better. If they understand that this is an issue for a significant number of customers they might take measures such as enabling you to select which bank the money goes to or at least making it just one bank all the time so that people can then set up their accounts accordingly.

 

The TW reply to another member shown earlier was incorrect in saying there is no way TW incoming can show as international. It can and does at the initial receiving back. The problem arises only when that bank in turn transfers to another bank in Thailand, at that point it is indeed a domestic transfer.

2

There is so much confusion on TVForum about transferwise. It does not transfer funds from one country to another. The funds in question never leave UK (example) and the funds do not leave Thailand for anywhere else. No money crosses any borders.

 

If funds are 'sent/transferred' from UK the money in pounds are held in a UK bank account.

 

Let's say the UK person wants to send 1000 pounds at 40 baht to the pound. And someone wants to send 100,000 baht to UK (can be more than two countries involved in the transactions), from Thailand. When the 40k is matched in Thailand the money is diverted from the Thai account - that has just received the 100k - to the 40k destination account bank in Thailand. And vise-versa.

 

The resulting transactions are local (within the country) and will show up as such on the statements.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by owl sees all

[SooKee]

Did you not read or understood Sherly's posts, she even posted an attachment which is self-explanatory.
 

Which attachment are you referring to? It seems like there are being things suggested that folks haven't tried, regardless of how bright the suggestion seem. I asked in Bangkok Bank today in respect of a transaction I know had been routed through them on it's way to me at Kasikorn. Blank looks and no can do.


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[farangx]

3 minutes ago, johnwf1963 said:

I've skipped a few pages ...

But just for info Krungsi FCD account statement shows a code of SWF (SWIFT DEPOSIT) against the credit column entry of SWIFT transfers from the Halifax in the U.K. (£9.50ish a transfer, Krungsi charge 1% (minimum 500 baht) per deposit. If they could print off the last 12 months statements (in case a statement goes a stray in the post), would clearly show deposits.

No passbooks for IO to look at though, requirement does say "statement"

Since the bank have info that all you transfers were from overseas, they is no reason for them not to issue you that letter.