Health insurance premium increased by 60% in 2 years!

[simon43]

I look after myself - I exercise daily and eat a good diet.  I have zero pre-existing medical conditions.  I'm almost 60 years old.

 

Two years ago I took out an 'Emergency+' insurance policy with HCI (Healthcare International). The annual premium was $722 USD.

 

Last year, the renewal premium was $915, an increase of 26%

 

The next renewal premium in March 2019 (prior to my 60th birthday in June), will be $1,230, an increase of 34%

 

So in two years, with no claims against the policy, and not yet hitting the big premium increase when I reach 60 years old, I have seen my premium increase by 60%....

 

Does that seem right?  At that rate, my premiums will at least double every 4 years, even ignoring any age band jumps.

 

Do other companies such as Cigna or Davidshield publish their estimated annual % increase?  If I am going to change insurance policies, then I really need to do this before I'm 60 years old.

 

I welcome your comments!

Edited January 22, 2019 by simon43

[watgate]

It is hard to ascertain the thought processes of thai immigration officials and other government bureaucrats but maybe one of the unintended consequences with the new immigration requirements of 800k thb in a bank or 65k thb going into a thai bank each month is that now retirees will have funds in the event they require costly medical care. With the old income affidavit method undoubtedly a lot of individuals did not have sufficient funds in the event they needed medical care. With the problems the above poster is having with substantially rising health care premiums with no apparent justification other then price gouging one wonders if the thai officials who implement new policies knew that cases such as the one being experienced by the poster as well as many retirees currently residing in thailand who have pre-existing conditions, that practically speaking ,if new mandates were created for mandatory healthcare for retirees then a mass exodus would result due to the inability to afford  or  obtain adequate health care coverage. I know this is somewhat of a stretch but hopefully the powers to be who make the new rules or laws will understand the dynamics at play here and if new health care mandates are forthcoming then hopefully their will be a way for many retirees who have pre-existing health conditions or have to deal with the juggernaut of ever increasing health care premiums will be able to obtain health insurance in order to satisfy any possible health care requirements for their retirement visa.

[simon43]

Certainly this must be price-gouging, because I have no pre-existing medical conditions, no new medical conditions, have never made any claim and have not passed into the next age band.

 

I'm talking with Cigna and David Shield about their typical annual premium % increases.  I don't want to stay with HCI if they intend to financially 'rape' me in this manner.

[geriatrickid]

Dirt cheap premium. It is difficult to comment not knowing the deductible or  scope of coverage. Insurance spreads the risk over many policy holders so a factor may be in the company loss ratio. As medical costs increase so to must the premiums and we do know that the cost of medical care has increased significantly over the past 5 years. If you are concerned get a quote elsewhere. You can do it online.  

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, watgate said:

It is hard to ascertain the thought processes of thai immigration officials and other government bureaucrats but maybe one of the unintended consequences with the new immigration requirements of 800k thb in a bank or 65k thb going into a thai bank each month is that now retirees will have funds in the event they require costly medical care. With the old income affidavit method undoubtedly a lot of individuals did not have sufficient funds in the event they needed medical care. With the problems the above poster is having with substantially rising health care premiums with no apparent justification other then price gouging one wonders if the thai officials who implement new policies knew that cases such as the one being experienced by the poster as well as many retirees currently residing in thailand who have pre-existing conditions, that practically speaking ,if new mandates were created for mandatory healthcare for retirees then a mass exodus would result due to the inability to afford  or  obtain adequate health care coverage. I know this is somewhat of a stretch but hopefully the powers to be who make the new rules or laws will understand the dynamics at play here and if new health care mandates are forthcoming then hopefully their will be a way for many retirees who have pre-existing health conditions or have to deal with the juggernaut of ever increasing health care premiums will be able to obtain health insurance in order to satisfy any possible health care requirements for their retirement visa.

There are no new Thai immigration requirements.

 

Thai immigration is helping the people who can not show proof of income anymore due to verification issues by allowing a monthly transfer.

 

So yes, that makes your whole post a stretch.

[stevenl]

Don't know the company or policy, but the name doesn't sound like a full health insurance option. And sorry to disappoint Simon, but the increase is more than 60%, 722 to 1230 is about 70%.

[simon43]

Quote

 

And sorry to disappoint Simon, but the increase is more than 60%, 722 to 1230 is about 70%.
 

 

 

Thank-you.  This is why I work as an English teacher and not a Maths teacher... ????

 

@Geriatrickid, yes the premium is lowish. (Inpatient only, $500,000 annual cover, $2,000 excess, no copay).  I suspect that HCI starts off with a very competitive premium at the start, and then hikes it up over the next few years, possibly hiking after one is more than 60 years old, when the insuree is all but tied into their policy.

 

Anyway, I'm looking at Davidshield and Cigna, (especially Cigna's 'Close' policy).  Davidshield already quoted me $140/month for their Essentials policy, and that will rise by 21% next year when I hit their next age bracket.  That sounds more reasonable than HCI.

Edited January 23, 2019 by simon43

[scubascuba3]

Certainly this must be price-gouging, because I have no pre-existing medical conditions, no new medical conditions, have never made any claim and have not passed into the next age band.
 
I'm talking with Cigna and David Shield about their typical annual premium % increases.  I don't want to stay with HCI if they intend to financially 'rape' me in this manner.

I did an online quote with Cigna. If you put in different dates of birth you will know how much it will increase and its big.
Age 49 circ £70 a month (6k excess)
Age 70 circ £300 a month (2k excess?)
Age 80 circ £500 a month (1k excess?)

i can't recall the exact excess i used but it was based on me being more likely to claim, but you can see premiums go up massively. Its worth doing that to see whether you'll want to or be able to pay that in the future

[simon43]

but you can see premiums go up massively.

[//quote]

 

I agree.  but based on the 70% in premiums in 24 months with HCI, at 70 years old, my premium would be about $14,000 per year.  Realistically, it won't be that (I hope!).  But their price gouging in the 2 years of my policy has not endeared them as a candidate to renew with...

[scubascuba3]

but you can see premiums go up massively. [//quote]

 

I agree.  but based on the 70% in premiums in 24 months with HCI, at 70 years old, my premium would be about $14,000 per year.  Realistically, it won't be that (I hope!).  But their price gouging in the 2 years of my policy has not endeared them as a candidate to renew with...

 

 

Ask HCl to quote at different date of births and then you will know. handy if its an immediate online quote. it's a look into the future

 

 

 

[from the home of CC]

and there's no insurance to cover runaway premiums? insurance mafia must of missed that one..

[scubascuba3]

Once you get a quote off a health insurance firm they don't leave you alone, I've had several emails and phone calls, I've had to block them

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

There are no new Thai immigration requirements.

 

Thai immigration is helping the people who can not show proof of income anymore due to verification issues by allowing a monthly transfer.

 

So yes, that makes your whole post a stretch.

Thai Immigration 'helping people' by allowing a monthly transfer? You have ALWAYS been allowed to do a monthly transfer.

So now, you MUST transfer at least 65k a month.....living costs 40k....balance 25k per month = 300k per year. You won't get much of a heart by-pass op for that!

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

Thank-you.  This is why I work as an English teacher and not a Maths teacher... ????

 

@Geriatrickid, yes the premium is lowish. (Inpatient only, $500,000 annual cover, $2,000 excess, no copay).  I suspect that HCI starts off with a very competitive premium at the start, and then hikes it up over the next few years, possibly hiking after one is more than 60 years old, when the insuree is all but tied into their policy.

 

Anyway, I'm looking at Davidshield and Cigna, (especially Cigna's 'Close' policy).  Davidshield already quoted me $140/month for their Essentials policy, and that will rise by 21% next year when I hit their next age bracket.  That sounds more reasonable than HCI.

Aetna Thailand (formerly BUPA). I pay about 60k Bht per year, in patient & accident only. 71 years old, no pre-existing conditions.

[peteralex]

Ask a local insurance broker company. I got one with "LMG insurance" for in-patient services since I was 65 yo, the premium was 37K/year wth 71 yo.

[stevenl]

43 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Thai Immigration 'helping people' by allowing a monthly transfer? You have ALWAYS been allowed to do a monthly transfer.

So now, you MUST transfer at least 65k a month.....living costs 40k....balance 25k per month = 300k per year. You won't get much of a heart by-pass op for that!

Thai immigration hasn't changed their requirements at all, just the embassies of I think 4 countries, who were previously declaring the statement of the applicant to be true, can't do this anymore since they don't know if the statement is true.

So yes, Thai immigration is helping, because previously the income statement from embassy was required. I have heard of quite a few people who were previously going the embassy route that will now just show bank transfers.

 

There is no insurance connection at all BTW.

[Asawak]

Simon, maybe that will give you some information about the increase in the future.
Wishing you good luck with finding a solution that suits you. 

Healthcare International:

2010 HCI Premium (USD 1000.00 deductible) USD  2.475,49 
2018 HCI Premium (USD 1000.00 deductible) USD  8,607.64

2018 to 2019 no claim

2019 HCI Premium (USD 1000.00 deductible) USD 13,778.00

I cancelled the policy.

Before I couldn't imagine not having a healthcare insurance and understand the comments that have been made by TV members about not having one. But now I guess that I'm better of by putting the money in an account. Maybe in the future I can find a better solution.
 

[1FinickyOne]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

Certainly this must be price-gouging, because I have no pre-existing medical conditions, no new medical conditions, have never made any claim and have not passed into the next age band.

 

I'm talking with Cigna and David Shield about their typical annual premium % increases.  I don't want to stay with HCI if they intend to financially 'rape' me in this manner.

it sounds really cheap... makes me wonder what you might not be covered for... but when things are really cheap, small increases can represent a large %... shop around... it may still be cheap in comparison. 

[1130bobs]

What you describe is similar in USA for term health insurance (1 year is term).  The biggest issue with old people (like us) is to keep insurance company from raising rates annually (seems like as they wish) or to simply cancel you or exclude pre-existing conditions. The only & best way around this is to get a LIFE Insurance policy.  The reason is that these have a fixed annual premium until you are 82 years old.   When issued, your premiums are listed for each year until you are 82.  Don't need life insurance?  Then get the cheapest policy they will sell you - mine is 100 kthb policy for about 7 kthb / year.  Covers drinking for a few days & fire.

   BUT get this with THAI LIFE insurance company & get the HEALTH INSURANCE RIDER.  Here get the best you can afford - maybe 500 - 1,000k per health incident.  This is a comprehensive policy for hospital with their sister company; Thai Health Insurance co.

Now you have health insurance  - at guaranteed price (which increases with age) till you are 82.   I did it 5 years ago.

 

[simon43]

Aetna Thailand (formerly BUPA). I pay about 60k Bht per year, in patient & accident only. 71 years old, no pre-existing conditions.

 

Sorry, I'm not interested in Thai insurers - they are not governed by the 'fair' regulations of UK/European insurance companies, and can refuse to re-insure you if you make a claim, or can price you out after your claim, (this has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum - see Sheryl's very helpful posts on the subject).

 

@kenk24 - maybe it sounds cheap.  But that's because I have no pre-existing medical conditions whatsoever.  Most (?) people of my age maybe have high BP or bad chloresterol or pre-diabetes etc etc, and have to take some form of medication.  I don't have any of those and don't take any medications ????

 

Davidshield has replied favourably to my emails and I'm just waiting on Cigna.  I suspect that I will probably change to Cigna unless HCI can somehow justify their 70% premium increase in 24 months!

 

 

[wgdanson]

21 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm not interested in Thai insurers - they are not governed by the 'fair' regulations of UK/European insurance companies, and can refuse to re-insure you if you make a claim, or can price you out after your claim, (this has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum - see Sheryl's very helpful posts on the subject).

 

@kenk24 - maybe it sounds cheap.  But that's because I have no pre-existing medical conditions whatsoever.  Most (?) people of my age maybe have high BP or bad chloresterol or pre-diabetes etc etc, and have to take some form of medication.  I don't have any of those and don't take any medications ????

 

Davidshield has replied favourably to my emails and I'm just waiting on Cigna.  I suspect that I will probably change to Cigna unless HCI can somehow justify their 70% premium increase in 24 months!

 

 

Is Aetna not an American company?

My previous BUPA policy paid out twice without any refusal to re-new, or increase apart from age related increase.

As you say, most people of óur'age have high blood pressure, but if you do your own research on suitable meds, and buy them yourself without a doctor, then you have no pre-existing condition to tell them about. But honestly, I had normal blood pressure when I first took out the policy in 2012, age 64. Then it started to increase, so it was not pre-existing.

[topt]

33 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Davidshield has replied favourably to my emails and I'm just waiting on Cigna.  I suspect that I will probably change to Cigna

I finally committed to a health policy towards the end of last year and eventually went with David Shield. At the same age as you it was $452 p.a. cheaper than Cigna Close Care which was substantially cheaper than the equivalent Cigna Silver policy.

 

If you have had "perfect" health then AA Insure also suggested BDAE Expat Retired Plan - a German based company. The big plus with them was the lower level of premium increases at older ages.

 

This sheet was from AA last August so some prices will have increased but can give you a quick comparison if you have not come across it before.

08-13-2018 comparison PDF.pdf

 

[Sheryl]

A broker can give you tables showing current premium rates by age for different companies. No one can predict annual increases related to overall inflation in health care costs but from these tables you can get an idea of how much increade occurs with age in different policies.

 

Your good health and lack of preexisting conditions is relevant only to whether they insure you to begin with, it has nothing to do with annual increases. Neither does presence or absence of claims in the case of most international policies (inc. HCI).

 

Your premiums are unbelievably low so I suspect you ate rigjt that they lured you in with an artificially low rate and then increased at renewal time to edge it up to actual. Which I think you are still not at.

 

Contact a broker.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

Once you get a quote off a health insurance firm they don't leave you alone, I've had several emails and phone calls, I've had to block them

I always put a string of zeroes or 9's for my phone number to avoid this.

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[simon43]

I always put a string of zeroes or 9's for my phone number to avoid this. 

 

I always give the telephone number of my mad ex-wife (who doesn't know my contact details LoL)

 

As for the renewal quote from HCI, I challenged on this and said it wasn't worth my while to renew with them.

 

Their response?  They dropped the renewal premium from $1,230 to $985 (an increase of about 9% on last year's premium).

 

TBH, that reduction scares the hell out of me!  If they can discount my premium by such a large amount when I challenge them, then what confidence do I have in them not to substantially increase my premium when I'm 60 years old, to bring it into line with others in the same age band?  I'm sure that it is just a temporary discount to encourage me to stay with them over the 60 year thresholdm after which I might find it difficult to move insurers.

 

[how241]

57 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A broker can give you tables showing current premium rates by age for different companies. No one can predict annual increases related to overall inflation in health care costs but from these tables you can get an idea of how much increade occurs with age in different policies.

 

Your good health and lack of preexisting conditions is relevant only to whether they insure you to begin with, it has nothing to do with annual increases. Neither does presence or absence of claims in the case of most international policies (inc. HCI).

 

Your premiums are unbelievably low so I suspect you ate rigjt that they lured you in with an artificially low rate and then increased at renewal time to edge it up to actual. Which I think you are still not at.

 

Contact a broker.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Hello Sheryl,  As a first time insurance buyer can you tell me if this quote sound about right (ballpark).  I was quoted from Pacific Cross approximately 100,000-120,000 baht for their 'Ultima and Ultima Plus' plans .  One has 20 million and the other 50 million, with a 40,000 yearly deductible. In + Out patient coverage. I am 64 years old with no previous history or illness. Thank you

Edited January 23, 2019 by how241

[Orton Rd]

Almost went with pacific cross last year 55k but needed a medical. That turned up lots of high readings so I did not go ahead fearing pre existing conditions and no cover on a claim. Went back home a few weeks later and had all the tests re done- nothing wrong at all not even one high reading. At least PC did not bother me and were very professional. I'll be self insuring and hoping for the best.

[how241]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

Almost went with pacific cross last year 55k but needed a medical. That turned up lots of high readings so I did not go ahead fearing pre existing conditions and no cover on a claim. Went back home a few weeks later and had all the tests re done- nothing wrong at all not even one high reading. At least PC did not bother me and were very professional. I'll be self insuring and hoping for the best.

Pacific Coast told me no exam ONLY a cataract test and a PSA blood prostate test.  You can skip those tests but will not be covered for those items for 3 years.  This is what I was just told. 

[Sheryl]

Hello Sheryl,  As a first time insurance buyer can you tell me if this quote sound about right (ballpark).  I was quoted from Pacific Cross approximately 100,000-120,000 baht for their 'Ultima and Ultima Plus' plans .  One has 20 million and the other 50 million, with a 40,000 yearly deductible. In + Out patient coverage. I am 64 years old with no previous history or illness. Thank you

Yes, for inpatient plus outpatient at your age that premium sounds usual.

But why on earth get outpatient cover,? It increases the premium substantially and outpt care here is pretty affordable.

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[Lacessit]

I suspect the OP's premiums would increase dramatically once he hits that magic age of 70.

At 75, I have pre-existing conditions. None of which will kill me. Except with health insurance companies. I do 20 minutes of stretching exercises every morning, plus 30 pushups. Exercise with daily swimming, golf three times a week. I'm probably a lot healthier than many people 10 or 20 years younger than me.

Even if I could get health insurance, it would be about USD 11,000 a year. That's ridiculous.

So I continue to self-insure, and hope to hell the Thai government doesn't have a brain fart about making health insurance compulsory.

One good suggestion I saw was making retirees hold the 800,000 baht on deposit year-round, so it can act as surety for any hospital treatment. I could live with that.  Although that does nothing for those using the income method.