BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[RocketDog]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

EU banks often have a £85k/100k euro protection, what's the protection for Thai banks?

Is there any?

As I pointed out, the whole protection thing is just a clever ruse to pacify the depositers. Banks don't pay any significant interest rates now, at least not in proportion to the risk you are taking with them Hey, some counteies have negative interest rates these days. 

 

Don't loan money to people you don't trust. Make no mistake, a bank deposit is just a loan to your banker that he promises to repay if he is able. So do you trust your banker, with or without your government backing him? I don't. 

 

Singapore banks, by law, keep actual gold on deposit to insure deposits up to 50,000 SGN. Granted, that's not a lot, but it's real while the FDIC thing is just a fake, and is just more declining dollars at that. 

[icare999]

On 31 January 2019 at 7:32 PM, mlkik said:

800.000 baht is not very much if you genuinely have retired and have committed to living in Thailand.

Maybe the people getting worried do not really have enough to retire here? I know many people worry about the exchange rates,if that is the case again maybe they are not financially ready for retirement here?

I am far from being well off but I have put enough money in a Thai account to ensure a worry free retirement.

Interest rates here are no worse than my home country. I am not wealthy enough to speculate and possibly lose on the investment of stocks and shares . Therefore I see no reason not to have savings here.

 

i tend to agree and 400k kept is fine if its thought of as for medical costs. I have no problem whatever 

funding many million baht for medical but cant get medical insurance due to age and as a cancer survivor (5 years now). I actually usually bring over well over 1 million a year but usually dont keep anything in my bank here once i get my renewal since i use it to invest and then when i need refill ready for 3 months before. 

 

If you have to keep 400k baht all year it makes elite visa 500,000 baht deal attractice since its for i believe 5 years. Im nearly 80 so maybe go for both. I could also change to marriage visa but have avoided it for last 30 years because retirement is easier

 

My reneqal comes up April and while i made sure i had 1 million start dec to renew end feb (within 6 weeks) i of course did not have it in accoiunt for 3 months after vlast renewal. 

 

I guess its 400k is needed from next renewal or i wonder what happens with for example people who renew like me end feb is it then from renewal after that ie from march 2020 ? 

 

Whatever im sure as is always case people with enoughm oney wont have a problem and i must admit theirs to many retirees here who dont have a pot to piss in and while i feel sorry for those who are married and not low life its time Thailand got rid of lot of scum 

 

Im sure ill get flames for that comment 

 

[JackThompson]

23 hours ago, madmen said:

You serious? What nonsense. You think those that paid 5 to 10 million baht for condos in cash won't have 800k?

Why did they pay that much for a condo?  At 8K/mo rent for a high-floor sea-view, the sale-price is nowhere near that any more.  Granted, many who bought years ago paid a high price, since immigration wasn't blocking Western tourists then, so the rents for the same units were 15K/mo.  But those units are on fire-sale, now.

 

Many bought condos with their savings, knowing they would never have to pay rent again, so could live well on a lower income.  After all, they "grandfathered" the last changes - so probably thought there was at least a semblance of stability and good-will involved.  They thought wrong. 

 

Thailand won't give ANY credit for a retiree's condo-equity in their retirement-scheme - even though it is clearly not "money to spend" any more (as formerly advertised).  So, they likely paid too much in the past, now cannot rent it out or sell it for anywhere close to break-even, and immigration is forcing them to move to another country - where they will have to start paying rent, again.  Talk about a set-up and burn!! 

 

Glad I never bought a condo here.  I  considered it, but the rental-prices kept falling, and falling, and falling... as immigration tightened the screws on one subset of the Western expat-population to the next - to drive the renters and buyers away.  Try doing short-term BnB to short-termers, and they'll bust you for that, too.  No Win situation, folks.  Keep your money somewhere safe.  Investing here is a crap-shoot.

[icare999]

On 31 January 2019 at 7:38 PM, Aussieroaming said:

Who says aliens arent real, for 800k aliens are now welcome in Thailand.

800k baht is to be fair peanuts if you want to retire here if you cant find that you should not be here long term except maybe people married to a Thai whove fallen on hard times 

[scubascuba3]

As I pointed out, the whole protection thing is just a clever ruse to pacify the depositers.

Not true, in the UK/EU its a guarantee, proven in the credit crisis 2007. What protection is there with Thailand deposits?

[JackThompson]

On 1/31/2019 at 8:09 PM, totally thaied up said:

I cannot see how this can be good for agents. It is going to be very hard to show not having funds in your account for 5 months and then if it drops below the 400K, what happens? An IO cannot make this easily 'disappear' now.

 

This is a change of thinking. I want now to see how far it goes.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 8:17 PM, Pattaya46 said:

Please explain ???

No agent will let 800'000B on a foreigner account during months !

This change is made to stop their illegal activity, and it could well succeed  

They don't check the seasoning now for agent-applications - why would they start?  The IOs "forget" to check the seasoning / past-month's balances for agent-submitted applications - so no change.  At worst, a second "flash transfer in/out" for a 2nd bank-letter, depending on procedure.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 8:22 PM, Suradit69 said:

And all those bragging on TV about taking a short term loan, even without the need for an agent, will now have to think about fairly long term loans with usurious interest rates.

 

it seems these days when people blather on TV about some "clever" way they can circumvent some immigration rule, they spur a response from immigrations in response.... and of course the reaction makes life more onerous for those who are playing by the rules.

Immigration has already rigged the game so that the agent-fee (shared with immigration), is cheaper than a 3 month loan - but might be close in more "expensive-agent" areas like Phuket.  This isn't about stopping fraud, it's about ensuring a 5-mo loan's cost (vs 3) is well-beyond the agent-fee.  I would also expect agent-fees to go up - split with immigration, of course.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 8:43 PM, alex8912 said:

Just get a METV in your home country once a year. With extensions in Thailand you would have to leave one time after your fist 60 days + one 30 day extension. Then do the same again and go home after 6 months. Very easy and if you want to leave the country anytime you get 60 days over again. 

Then, you get to the airport your 2nd year, and they deny-entry because you "stayed in Thailand too much before" (completely legally, but they think it shouldn't be, so who cares what the law actually says).  That assumes you use safe land-borders during the first year for the out/in runs (assuming they remain safe).  Maybe could fly into Penang and train to Thailand like many do now, until the agent/elite/Chinese buy out the remaining entry-points, to get them to start violating the law, as well.  Or, they might just officially change the rules to ensure the agent-money stream is protected.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 8:41 PM, gamini said:

The new rules are because too many farangs have abused the system by using phoney visa agents. 

The Visa-Agents who work with immigration - the ones immigration often forces people to use by changing the needed requirements over and over - even adding on more and more "extra requirements" with each visit, as you try to apply honestly? 

 

Try getting your landlord to fly back from Europe to go to an Amphoe for some "newer copy" of a document you already supplied.  Been there and done that. 

 

We are not the corruption problem, here.  Agents will likely make a killing out of this, as will the AGENT'S PARTNERS at IMMIGRATION - just like they have from every other "tightening" / "crackdown".

 

On 1/31/2019 at 8:47 PM, Gecko123 said:

So you suddenly have a medical or family emergency which requires you to temporarily tap these funds, and your bank balance drops below 400K. You've got to go to immigration on your knees to beg for your visa to be renewed?

No, they will not help you.  They "got you" and have now put you in the agent-money pipeline - as designed.  Or, pack up and leave (which makes them almost as happy).

Edited February 1, 2019 by JackThompson

[RocketDog]

20 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

EU banks often have a £85k/100k euro protection, what's the protection for Thai banks?

Is there any?

Sorry sir, I just don't know.

 

As you may have guessed I don't put much store in such guarantees. The truth is harsh. In a real national (heaven forbid international) banking crises there is simply no money to repay all that will be lost by millions of bank clients. Again, look to Cypress for the model that motivated the bail in laws that swept the world afterwards. 

 

My conclusion was to plant banking flags in several well-chosen countries, hold metals in more than one country, hold real estate, and cross your fingers.

Pretty much anything tangible is going to be worth more than piles of scrap paper or zeros and ones in a computer. 

[icare999]

On 31 January 2019 at 7:48 PM, Genericnic said:

It's been a great 8 years. I am really going to miss Thailand.

 

David

 

555 heard all that for last 30 years good bye and good luck but most just moan and stay 

[dontoearth]

8 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Just because the banks are "insured" anywhere is no guarantee unless govt guaranteed. Recently saw a doco on the housing collapse in the USA, Fanny Macs etc and they say the insurance system is 50 times more fragile than the banking system. Some of these insurance companies underwritten by a string of 10 other sub underwriters. Its ok wen everything is stable but should there be a catastrophic event will fall like a house of cards

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

     In the USA we have Federal Depository Insurance.  The checking and savings is finally when all other avenues fail guaranteed by the government.  You do have to look for the FDIC sticker on your bank door or on your statements or on their website.  Somehow the new fake banks run by insurance companies and tech guru websites have not been forced to join FDIC.  This will lead to a real problem in a crash for younger millennials and customers that are not more alert.

      I don't know how other countries handle the insurance portion of deposits.

[RocketDog]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

Not true, in the UK/EU its a guarantee, proven in the credit crisis 2007. What protection is there with Thailand deposits?

 

If you are telling me the EU has no bail in laws then, with respect I must disagree with you. 

 

What happened then and in 2008 in America is just a preview for much more graphic coming attractions.

 

The whole world is swimming in debt well past any realistic ability to pay it. Printing money does not substitute for creating real wealth.

 

We're heading directly for a global financial reset. Nothing short of benevelont aliens landing is going to change that. Research what the IMF is saying these days. 

 

Hold into your hat and your assets. 

[jmd8800]

85 pages in about 24 hours. Is this a record?

[RocketDog]

1 minute ago, dontoearth said:

     In the USA we have Federal Depository Insurance.  The checking and savings is finally when all other avenues fail guaranteed by the government.  You do have to look for the FDIC sticker on your bank door or on your statements or on their website.  Somehow the new fake banks run by insurance companies and tech guru websites have not been forced to join FDIC.  This will lead to a real problem in a crash for younger millennials and customers that are not more alert.

      I don't know how other countries handle the insurance portion of deposits.

Please go to the FDIC website and read how much they can actually cover in a massive failure. You will be shocked. We are talking about less than 2% of what they insure. 

[Pib]

40 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

EU banks often have a £85k/100k euro protection, what's the protection for Thai banks?

Is there any?

 

32 minutes ago, overherebc said:

There was something about that on TV a while ago and it was a sort of sliding scale, down the way, on the reduction of guaranteed money over a period of a few years.

Maybe someone can find the thread.

From memory it didn't mean sunshine, straw hats and trumpets. ????

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN#

[ocddave]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN#

Wow, thats a huge decline....was there a reason for it? Is that per account, or per bank?

[scubascuba3]

 
http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN#

i have little faith in that as a farang

[JackThompson]

On 1/31/2019 at 8:52 PM, madmen said:

It's funny how the desperates like to imply that all farang will run to Cambodia or some other arm pit.

They will be developing rapidly to support the new foreigners flooding in from Thailand.  After all, it's just the areas where those from wealthy-countries live and invest in businesses that "develop", for the most part.  The rest is farmland or factory-squalor.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 8:52 PM, madmen said:

Thailand won't even notice the vanishing of poor farang living as zero dollar long term tourists. Perhaps happy hour in soi bukaho would be a bit quite

Farang cannot "zero-dollar" here - you are confusing us with the masses who arrive on package-tours and only spend money at a few pre-selected locations, while overburdening the infrastructure.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 9:01 PM, MrPatrickThai said:

Some are here just for cheap sex and can't afford this small amount. These are the ones that are going to be going. Good riddance I say to all us workers and prperly retired gentlemen.

Most paying for sex are short-term tourists, who don't have to show any money at all (maybe 20K Baht to get a visa or cash at the airport).  Well, not counting the Thais, who are most of the actual sex-customers.

 

Those who can afford to pay for sex year-round without working can afford the 800K in the bank.  Those who cannot are down at the discount-beer bar - not the gogo bar.

 

As usual, the "sexpat" meme is trotted out, but always aimed at the wrong target-demographic.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

 My understanding is that most (all) Thai banks charge an incoming transfer fee of 0.25% (minimum of 200, maximum of 500 baht).  Those are the charges for Bangkok Bank but most other Thai banks have similar if not exactly the same charges.  The problem may be that the banks don't tell you about it.  For example, there's no notation in my Bangkok Bank account that it happened, yet I get an SMS whenever I receive an international transfer into my account and there it mentions the exchange rate that was used and the incoming transfer fee.

 

Another way to tell if this is happening is to look at the incoming baht and try to match that up exactly with a TT (Telegraphic Transfer) rate on the bank's exchange rate page.  If the exchange rate that was actually used in your transaction is a little less favorable than you can find listed it may be that your bank's incoming transfer fee has been applied (200-500 baht) without you being specifically notified.

I get "Social security  transfer, THB xxxx usdxxxx @31.12 - THB200 from abroad into xxxxxxx

SMS on my phone from Bangkok Bank

Edited February 1, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Olmate]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Definitely read below thread "to include the khaosodenglish article within.

 

 http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/02/01/new-retiree-visa-rules-bewilder-thai-immigration-source/

 

Maybe TI staff agree it’s wrong too!Encouraging article now on FB.

[dontoearth]

4 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

If you are telling me the EU has no bail in laws then, with respect I must disagree with you. 

 

What happened then and in 2008 in America is just a preview for much more graphic coming attractions.

 

The whole world is swimming in debt well past any realistic ability to pay it. Printing money does not substitute for creating real wealth.

 

We're heading directly for a global financial reset. Nothing short of benevelont aliens landing is going to change that. Research what the IMF is saying these days. 

 

Hold into your hat and your assets. 

      Agreed.  In 2007/2008 I was amazed at how many of my friends were living on home equity lines and second mortgages and signature loan money with their houses hocked up to the legal limit!  As the crisis unfolded the houses were hocked beyond the legal limit and they were worried about wolves knocking at the door!

       Having some little manageable place to live that you own the deed to debt-free clear and available for you to hunker down may be the best possible investment you have ever made.    Two would be even better but that is hard for most people.  And I don't mean things like time share condos and vacation properties.  An actual physical real property you can stay in 24/7 365 if you need too.

        A secure safe with some cash would be good too.  In a true total meltdown like 1929 there were no ATM's and no credit cards to speak of at all.  Cash money did start to disappear and become rare as bank branches closed up.  I assume in a real meltdown today ATM's and credit cards would be worthless and not honored for even grocery items.

[Lacessit]

27 minutes ago, David Walden said:

It's looking more and more simple to apply for your retirement Visa in your own home country through the Thai Embassy as I do. Means going home at least once every 2 years (not so bad if you live in Perth Aus $400 return). All I have to do is show them that the surrender value of my pension fund is at least Bt800.000 in Aus, get a truthful police report ($75) get a doctor to give you a medical to say your not about to die with the Clapp (1/3rd stage) and a bit of paperwork and Aus $275 for a multi-entry visa and you get a O-A  M retirement visa in about 5 working days and arrive in Thailand for just on 2 years with everything in place ...that is of course if they haven't changed that way also...yet!  It is still on the Embassy web site as available.  And you don't have any money in a Thai bank.  My pension fund goes up about 10% each year (not so good lately) you might get 1% interest if you put the Bt800,000 in a Thai Bank.  If you are forfeiting Bt70,000 a year on interest then that is what you are paying for a retirement visa that is about Aus $3000 a year.

 I'm not aware you can apply for a retirement EXTENSION in Australia. Your method is at risk if for some reason the Thai Embassy decides to reject the next O-A application because you've gone to the well once too often.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

 
http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN#

i have little faith in that as a farang

Why?  List the bank failures in the past 20 years or say you are just afraid of Thailand because you don't know much about it. 

[ukrules]

43 minutes ago, MikeOKitches said:

Look in the mirror when you cast aspersions towards people you don't
know. Your narcissism manifests itself in the the unwarranted drivel you cast
towards me. Seek help, and please do us all a favor and stay in your lane.
Thanks.

 

I wonder do you realise when he says 'new guy' here he's referring to the newly appointed guy in charge of immigration, not you. LOL ????

Edited February 1, 2019 by ukrules

[scubascuba3]

Why?  List the bank failures in the past 20 years or say you are just afraid of Thailand because you don't know much about it. 

banks can't get much right when you go to see them, immigration are clueless throughout the country, corruption is rife but you expect to get full compensation if a bank goes under, very unlikely

[madmen]

Most paying for sex are short-term tourists, who don't have to show any money at all (maybe 20K Baht to get a visa or cash at the airport).  Well, not counting the Thais, who are most of the actual sex-customers.

 

Those who can afford to pay for sex year-round without working can afford the 800K in the bank.  Those who cannot are down at the discount-beer bar - not the gogo bar.

 

As usual, the "sexpat" meme is trotted out, but always aimed at the wrong target-demographic.

 

Sorry not zero dollar long term tourists. They have invested for sure

.like Singha vest, flip flops, happy hour or 7/11 beers.[emoji16]

You live in Pattaya in a elcheapo shoe box so you are probably a near zero dollar long term tourist yourself.

 

[Straight8]

On 1/31/2019 at 8:53 PM, MrPatrickThai said:

I wonder why? Young ladies perhaps? Bye! 

Yeah why the heck not.... much better than old turkeys!!

[RocketDog]

Just now, dontoearth said:

      Agreed.  In 2007/2008 I was amazed at how many of my friends were living on home equity lines and second mortgages and signature loan money with their houses hocked up to the legal limit!  As the crisis unfolded the houses were hocked beyond the legal limit and they were worried about wolves knocking at the door!

       Having some little manageable place to live that you own the deed to debt-free clear and available for you to hunker down may be the best possible investment you have ever made.    Two would be even better but that is hard for most people.  And I don't mean things like time share condos and vacation properties.  An actual physical real property you can stay in 24/7 365 if you need too.

        A secure safe with some cash would be good too.  In a true total meltdown like 1929 there were no ATM's and no credit cards to speak of at all.  Cash money did start to disappear and become rare as bank branches closed up.  I assume in a real meltdown today ATM's and credit cards would be worthless and not honored for even grocery items.

I'm a glass-half-full guy when it comes to global macroeconomics I'm afraid. The more I research the worse it gets. The only way I could finally sleep at night was to educate myself, do some serious asset re-allocation, and have a Plan B and C. I have no delusions that I won't get hurt when the whole system comes down but I don't think I will be wiped out entirely as many folks will certainly be. 

 

Yes, as you said: I have a duplex rental house in one city and my daughter living in my primary residence, both of which I consider an investment with 15 year notes and very large equities. 

 

I'm not trying to brag, only to say that I've been sick over this since the 2008 crash and determined to never be caught flat-footed again. When I started learning more about global economics the picture became more clear and I started changing my value system. One result is me landing here. And I'm very pleased with that part at least! 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Why?  List the bank failures in the past 20 years or say you are just afraid of Thailand because you don't know much about it. 

banks can't get much right when you go to see them, immigration are clueless throughout the country, corruption is rife but you expect to get full compensation if a bank goes under, very unlikely

I've been here 20 years and no corruption at Immigration and no banking problems.  If I may suggest it is you who has the problem not the average retired expat. 

[ocddave]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

I've been here 20 years and no corruption at Immigration and no banking problems.  If I may suggest it is you who has the problem not the average retired expat. 

"no corruption"?!?!?!?!  LMAO!!!!!

[Fex Bluse]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:48 PM, Sheryl said:

And only half of it then.

 

Basically you have to have a balance of 800K for 6 months of the year (3 months before extension and 3 months after) and then a balance of 400k or more the rest of the time.

 

In practical terms if your living costs here average around 65k a month  then you need to bring in bring in almost 1.2 million 3 months before your expiration date.

 

Since they are requiring substantial amount of funds deposited which cannot be spent, big question in my mind is: will they allow it to be in a fixed deposit so at least it gathers more interest?

 

Also - when does this take effect? I have been using the 800k method and, naturally, spending it down as the year passes and balance right now is already under 400k.

 

????

My understanding is that the account can be only of one type and it earns very minimal interest 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, ocddave said:

"no corruption"?!?!?!?!  LMAO!!!!!

I've done 20 retirement extension all over Thailand and not once found any corruption.  Why would I lie?  I don't get paid to advertise Thailand.  How many extensions have you done?  Did you run into corruption with both of them?