Can I Get Arrested for Overstay if I don't have 800K in the bank?

[Jingthing]

46 minutes ago, jimn said:

You are obviously a born worrier The new regs dont start until March and as far as I can see will only be checked when you go to renew your extension. Not 3 monthly or with the 90 day reports as some have suggested. Enjoy your time here and stop worrying.

As far as you can see?
More like as far you can just make up out of thin air.

There is NO INFORMATION whatsoever available at this point in time about the enforcement mechanics of this most recent onerous new police order.

[bkk6060]

On 1/31/2019 at 10:54 PM, jackdd said:

Another "interesting" thing:

The day your account balance drops below the required amount your permit to stay becomes invalid.

Let's say somebody doesn't notice this, or just isn't aware of this new rule... Maybe 6 months later he shows up for his next extension, provides his documents.

The IO notices that 6 months ago the evil foreigner didn't have 400k in his bank account.

Into IDC it goes and banned from Thailand for 5 years for being 6 months on overstay.

Sure.

Ignorance of a rule or law is never an excuse.

If one is living here it is their responsibility to keep up on recent events.

Edited February 2, 2019 by bkk6060

[Chongalulu]

In answer to the OP...Do you really think Immigration have thought this aspect through when they didn’t the original order ? Hence 2 different orders in January.They’re just making it up as they go along !

[Christophers200]

Theoretically, anyone in breach of the conditions of their extension of stay could have their extension canceled and be required to leave. 

[spetersen]

On 2/1/2019 at 12:39 PM, DrTuner said:

Out of curiosity, what do the banks require for one to be able to send 800k back outside of Thailand?

You need to prove to your bank that the money has been transfered form another country into your bank account.

[spetersen]

Why don't people using the income method (Transfer 65.000 THB in to your Thai bank every month) hassel free year around.

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, spetersen said:

Why don't people using the income method (Transfer 65.000 THB in to your Thai bank every month) hassel free year around.

Well some good reasons.

Many people don't have nearly that amount of monthly income.

It's never been required to have that much monthly income or actually even one baht of income. 

Other options -- combo method / 800 bank method.

It's never been required to import even one baht annually before.

The 65K monthly import is a very new option for people that can't get embassy letters.

People that can should continue to get embassy letters.

Also I see you're a Jomtien person, there was a report here that Jomtien is not yet accepting any income applications without embassy letters.

Enough?

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[dotpoom]

On 1/31/2019 at 10:44 PM, trd said:

You don't have to keep the 800k in your bank after you have renewed your retirement extension. You can take it all out if you want and then put it in again 3 months before the extension is due to be renewed the following year. How can you be on an overstay if you've just got a years visa?

You obviously haven't been following the new changes ..that's the "old" way you are talking about.

[chrisinth]

17 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

It is not hard for them (immigration) to monitor bank accounts and have an alert if the funds drop. And they could check in a retrospective manner. However, what will they do if you reduced below 400k, but paid in the minimum amount each month to meet the overall yearly amount. Or change banks?

I think you imagine immigration to have powers greater than you give them credit for.

 

Immigration would need endless paperwork to see an individual's financial history.

 

If it ever becomes the case where my bank was to allow access to my details without my permission, or at the least a court order, that would then be an ex-bank for me.

 

IMO if anybody would willingly allow this, they are crazy.

Edited February 2, 2019 by chrisinth

[Dap]

On 1/31/2019 at 10:54 PM, jackdd said:

Another "interesting" thing:

The day your account balance drops below the required amount your permit to stay becomes invalid.

Let's say somebody doesn't notice this, or just isn't aware of this new rule... Maybe 6 months later he shows up for his next extension, provides his documents.

The IO notices that 6 months ago the evil foreigner didn't have 400k in his bank account.

Into IDC it goes and banned from Thailand for 5 years for being 6 months on overstay.

You actually assume the right hand knows what the left hand is doing. Do you really think the banks notify the Immigration dept. if someone has closed an account and left the country? or that the authorities monitor the farang bank accounts? That is a bit more than just simple paranoia.

[jackdd]

32 minutes ago, Dap said:

Do you really think the banks notify the Immigration dept. if someone has closed an account and left the country?

No, i don't think this and did never say this.

I just think that the IO might check a foreigner's banking documents from the previous year when the foreigner applies for the next extension.

[Khaeng Mak]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 Or more likely, widely different practice sand interpretations by different IOs.

 

I don't think it is just the translation that is badly worded, suspect the original in Thai is no better. For some reason, Thai government bulletins/edicts seem to favor vague wording.  Causes all manner of problems.

No. Causes all manner of opportunities.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Khaeng Mak

[Khaeng Mak]

1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

I think you imagine immigration to have powers greater than you give them credit for.

 

Immigration would need endless paperwork to see an individual's financial history.

You're joking right? As part of my annual extension application I have to provide immigration with a copy of every page in my bank book (and this year every page in my old book that has holes punched through it as well) and I had to sign each and every one of those pages.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Khaeng Mak

[Khaeng Mak]

Current events:

1. Banks are currently required to flag out of country transfers

2. You have to submit the details of your bank account when applying for an extension

3. You have to apply for a letter and statement from your bank to include with your application

 

Future events?:

1. Easy for immigration to instruct that whenever a bank issues a letter for an extension renewal, they must also then flag and monitor that account to ensure that the balance does not fall below 400K for the following 12 month period.

2. Immigration to also impose penalty for any bank that fails to notify immigration within 7 days of an account that fell below 400K

[Khaeng Mak]

4 hours ago, jimn said:

You are obviously a born worrier The new regs dont start until March and as far as I can see will only be checked when you go to renew your extension. Not 3 monthly or with the 90 day reports as some have suggested. Enjoy your time here and stop worrying.

I am old, sick, disabled and after many years in Thailand have a life and family here.  However my life and family are currently under siege.  It is clear that retirees are now viewed as the enemy.  In such a milieu, worry is well justified.

[The Theory]

Perhaps you will be questioned at the port of exit for not having “reentry permit” since your extension is base on retirement. 

My guess is they won’t renew your retirement extension next time due to lack of fund in bank (400,000 year long). 

[Khaeng Mak]

57 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Perhaps you will be questioned at the port of exit for not having “reentry permit” since your extension is base on retirement. 

My guess is they won’t renew your retirement extension next time due to lack of fund in bank (400,000 year long). 

I always get a single reentry permit stamp when I make any annual extension.  Have not used many of them but like to have one in my passport at all times just in case I have to dash for some reason.  They are only 1000 baht (which actually now is getting a bit expensive).

Edited February 2, 2019 by Khaeng Mak

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

You're joking right? As part of my annual extension application I have to provide immigration with a copy of every page in my bank book (and this year every page in my old book that has holes punched through it as well) and I had to sign each and every one of those pages.

That is information that you voluntarily gave them.

 

The poster I was addressing was suggesting that immigration had access to bank accounts.

 

So no, I wasn't kidding. Read the post I was replying to again. 

[Khaeng Mak]

1 minute ago, chrisinth said:

That is information that you voluntarily gave them.

 

The poster I was addressing was suggesting that immigration had access to bank accounts.

 

So no, I wasn't kidding. Read the post I was replying to again. 

How was it voluntary? No documents not extension.

[chrisinth]

1 minute ago, Khaeng Mak said:

How was it voluntary? No documents not extension.

 

4 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

As part of my annual extension application I have to provide immigration with a copy of every page in my bank book

As said previously, you voluntarily gave them the information from your bank account. Immigration do not have access to that information without you providing it.

[overherebc]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

As far as you can see?
More like as far you can just make up out of thin air.

There is NO INFORMATION whatsoever available at this point in time about the enforcement mechanics of this most recent onerous new police order.

It's for sure the one thing that has thrown up more questions than answer so far.

There is another thread running that reports some IO's are not clear on what it all means and how they should handle it.

The end result I don't think is clear to 99% of expats who read and post on TV but there will be many who still don't go near social media and it may come as bolt from the blue to them.

It's just one of those 'we have to wait and see what happens.'

 

In the meantime I'm off to bed and if I can't reach the light switch I'll just blow it out with my shotgun. Think about it.

[Inepto Cracy]

11 hours ago, jimn said:

You are obviously a born worrier The new regs dont start until March and as far as I can see will only be checked when you go to renew your extension. Not 3 monthly or with the 90 day reports as some have suggested. Enjoy your time here and stop worrying.

There was an article on TV last Thursday by webfact, that immigration was considering asking that some retirees would be asked to show B800,00.00 with their 90 day reports. That would seriously damage some ones applications if they did use the money for living on, during the months prior to extending their permit to stay.

So basically the problem is IOs and agents not going by the rule book.

This should also read to include that you have to present yourself in person at the immigration office for the mug shot.

Alas we longstayers do know that these rules can be changed again and again, in a heartbeat.

At the moment there is too much speculation and not a lot of hard tangible facts yet.

[rott]

On 1/31/2019 at 11:05 PM, Khaeng Mak said:

I can't leave the country if I am arrested for overstay.

In another thread is it you that is saying that you are handicapped and could not survive here without the help and support of your family here?

 

If this is the case why would you be grabbing a taxi for the airport and doing a runner to Vietnam.

 

Apologies if it is not you.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

I always get a single reentry permit stamp when I make any annual extension.  Have not used many of them but like to have one in my passport at all times just in case I have to dash for some reason.  They are only 1000 baht (which actually now is getting a bit expensive).

Consider you could get one at the airport on the way out. No point dashing as you usually need check in well prior!

[rott]

Ref my post 53, yes it is him so no need for apologies.

 

Apparently as well as his disabilities he also has illnesses so why he would even consider leaving here for Vietnam I do not understand.

[jacko45k]

Haha, I will take this ridiculous scenario a step further. Not only do you need to carry your passport with you at all times, but your recently updated bank account passbook! 

[thaidrew]

Actually it is not difficult for immigration to make it a requirement to open a dedicated retirement account, withdrawal from which is blocked below 400k. Or require a term deposit in the amount of 800k with the proviso that more than 400k can't be withdrawn. Malaysia have much the same system but for a higher figure RM150k about usd 35k, you can can withdraw for specified purposes but not more than the minimum allowed, which is about usd12k l think. To withdraw an application must be made, reasons quoted and if withdrawing all visa is terminated. 

[Khaeng Mak]

4 hours ago, rott said:

In another thread is it you that is saying that you are handicapped and could not survive here without the help and support of your family here?

 

If this is the case why would you be grabbing a taxi for the airport and doing a runner to Vietnam.

 

Apologies if it is not you.

So are you telling me I am not allow to get treatment back home if I need it in a hurry. 

[Khaeng Mak]

4 minutes ago, thaidrew said:

Actually it is not difficult for immigration to make it a requirement to open a dedicated retirement account, withdrawal from which is blocked below 400k. Or require a term deposit in the amount of 800k with the proviso that more than 400k can't be withdrawn. Malaysia have much the same system but for a higher figure RM150k about usd 35k, you can can withdraw for specified purposes but not more than the minimum allowed, which is about usd12k l think. To withdraw an application must be made, reasons quoted and if withdrawing all visa is terminated. 

If they made such an account/requirement here then then it will cause even further problems for me because I use a fCD for my annual extension.

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Sure.

Ignorance of a rule or law is never an excuse.

If one is living here it is their responsibility to keep up on recent events.

Exactly what I overheard IOs telling people they fined for failure to submit a TM-30, even though they had lived here for years, on repeated extensions, and never knew it existed.  But at least that law did exist on the books.  All the "new rules" are going to slam many w/o a clue into the concrete face-first.  Dodgy-lenders and other creatures of the grey and black markets should have field-day.