New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I presume that those 'forced out' by the new rules are not able to meet the financial requirements.  If so, I imagine that one argument that the Authorities may make to themselves, is that those people must therefore make a minimal contribution to the economy and therefore would be a minimal loss to Thailand.  The ones I feel for the most, are those who have been here for years, are well settled and  who's income is fixed in some way (small pension, not index linked).  Without capital to back up a small income, those people have been royally shafted by the new rules and the poor exchange rates for many western currencies.   I guess that the Thai authorities do not care a jot for those people and I also guess that it is not their role to care much.  Sad but true.    

There are guys here who came to Thailand when they only had to do a border run every ninety days and that was it.

They bought houses, cars, brought up families, and still bringing up families on the strength of that, now just look at how the Thai  government have treated them. These people should have been granted permanent residence.

If anybody in any country has lived in it, being married for so many years and kept contributing to the countrys economy, they should be left alone now.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Look at this as an evolution as Thailand becomes a more upscale and cutting edge international country in Asia .

 

I'm not seeing a lot of "cutting edge". I'm seeing a lot of regression and the former gaps between Thailand and neighboring countries narrowing.

 

[atyclb]

14 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Possibly this will greatly help Thailand get rid of the retirement community that is not wanted in Thailand and overall improve the quality of people who stay and retire here .

Look at this as an evolution as Thailand becomes a more upscale and cutting edge international country in Asia . Upgrade your profile or move on and find another place that was like Thailand was decades ago because so much is and has changed here . Nothing stays the same and be happy for Thailand as it becomes a more upscale and technologically upgraded location . If you don’t want make the effort to upgrade your profile to match the changes taking place in this country just move on but don’t complain about Thailand wanting to upgrade every aspect of its country and expat community . I remind myself I am a guest here and the country looks out for its own people first not the expat .

 

 

if only that were true and not simply more shopping malls, condos, additional lines added to the bkk mrt and bts (overcrowded), and technology developed somewhere else. society itself essentially stays the same.

Edited February 4, 2019 by atyclb

[Lumbini]

Umh, yes, right ho, upscale and cutting edge it is then... 
[emoji3]

Don’t believe me and cheat yourself out of seeing for yourself ? Go see , I can give you several locations in Bangkok where so much has changed and evolved and possibly the rest of the country will follow .... out with the old in with the new as everything changes .

[atyclb]

7 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

18 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 friends are getting at least 7% . 

https://vietnam.deposits.org/accounts/ocb-1-year-term-deposit.html

 

 

1,787 usd interest/ year on 800K thai baht (25,533usd)

 

that will make a dent in paying rent or living expenses.  

 

vietnam 1 year mult entry visa done online. mine was approved within 6 hours.  no financial requirement

 

 

I am not sure I want to convert to VND which is a controlled currency.

 is the thai baht not controlled?

[taxin]

8 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 friends are getting at least 7% . 

https://vietnam.deposits.org/accounts/ocb-1-year-term-deposit.html

 

 

1,787 usd interest/ year on 800K thai baht (25,533usd)

 

that will make a dent in paying rent or living expenses.  

 

vietnam 1 year mult entry visa done online. mine was approved within 6 hours.  no financial requirement

 

 

Or do the same and get a 1 year multiple entry visa to Thailand, and continue to stay.

 

Still baffles me why so many people are unaware of the alternatives, which are a lot easier.

[JAG]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

If anybody in any country has lived in it, being married for so many years and kept contributing to the countrys economy, they should be left alone now.

Well said. However, whilst they are undoubtably contributing to Thai society, the contributions may not be reaching the right bits of Thai society... 

[Speedhump]

Discount the vast number of expats who regularly threaten to leave on this forum every year. What are you left with? A few people who are seriously on the financial limit. I feel for them and them alone, but please let's discount the hordes of moaners who fill these surveys with deliberate misinformation/lies, based possibly on their dislike of the country (they'd say the same in Cambodia etc.). 

[Pilotman]

11 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

Maybe Thais changed so much especially in the touristic areas because their image of foreigners are badly damaged by the quality of recent tourists ( Russians,Chinese and Indians) and not to the better. Now they realized that foreigners can be just like some of them. 

Uncouth and boorish.  No more sahib culture anymore for the whites . That image was shattered the day the Russians landed. 

 

Ha ha, got to laugh. I was here 20 odd years ago, it's a lot better now than it was, notwithstanding the present influx of Russians, Chinese and Indians.  If it was damaged by anyone, it was by the western visitors, pre all this present lot. Remember, it was the Americans that kicked it all off 40/50 years ago.    

[baansgr]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

It won't hurt the economy at all, only the ego's of the poor pensioners.

Certain areas of the economy will of course suffer, that will then trickle down to other areas. Times will change and people change accordingly

[bkkcanuck8]

4 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 is the thai baht not controlled?

Not really, and not in any way that affects the average citizen.  I as an average joe can convert in and out of Thai baht easily.

 

Vietnam (like a few other countries in the area) have dual currency banking in place since you would only convert into VND what you are using domestically. 

[Lancelot01]

6 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

leavers and stayers - sound familiar?

"Should I stay or should I go now"

If I go there will be trouble, if I stay there will be double.

[StevieAus]

5 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Cambodia is a lawless corrupt, brutal place. Go there and you will be treated as a sexual predator or criminal by your home country. Vietanam's shine wears off quickly once you have to deal with the  mind numbing communist bureaucracy and insidious corruption.

Not sure about Vietnam but would not want to rely on the Cambodian medical system  my Thai wife and I visited a few years ago she became ill and we came back here for treatment.

[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, Lancelot01 said:

"Should I stay or should I go now"

If I go there will be trouble, if I stay there will be double.

If you are sitting on a bar stool whinging... then you should go.

 

If you are living your life, not involved in criminal activity, not financially stressed by every baht movement in the currency or stress over regulations changes --  and are happy then you may stay if you want ...

[moe666]

5 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

It is time to come clean. I am responsible for all of this.

 

I had a opportunity to meet Big Joke and I asked him if he could come up with a way to make the lines shorter at immigration.

 

 "7.9% said Yes plus 22.72% said it would seriously jeopardize their stay."

 

looks like a 30.62% decrease in the lines! 

 

 

Spot on, shorter lines are good lines

[taxin]

20 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Possibly this will greatly help Thailand get rid of the retirement community that is not wanted in Thailand and overall improve the quality of people who stay and retire here .

Look at this as an evolution as Thailand becomes a more upscale and cutting edge international country in Asia . Upgrade your profile or move on and find another place that was like Thailand was decades ago because so much is and has changed here . Nothing stays the same and be happy for Thailand as it becomes a more upscale and technologically upgraded location . If you don’t want make the effort to upgrade your profile to match the changes taking place in this country just move on but don’t complain about Thailand wanting to upgrade every aspect of its country and expat community . I remind myself I am a guest here and the country looks out for its own people first not the expat .

Brilliant post. So true. Although sadly will likely be accused of trolling.

[PaDavid]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It does appear that this administration, and especially the biggest joke, are trying to do everything in their power to discourage ex-pats from staying here. Does it not? These imbeciles should be making our lives easier, and making visa policy simpler. Rathe

r they seem to be tightening the noose, every chance they get. To call them ignorant, fearful, xenophobic, non-visionary, and misguided would be a vast understatement. Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite, and barely even disguising his contempt for foreigners. He is the single biggest threat to the ex-pat community right now. 

 

One can only hope that come election time, all of this nonsense will be over, and both Prayuth and especially the biggest joke, will be sent out to pasture for the rest of their lives. They are not doing anything that benefits their nation, and they are picking on good men, who are bringing a lot to the table. Dumb and dumber. What can one say? 

If they're 'bringing a lot to the table' they shouldn't have a problem.  

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

Not sure about Vietnam but would not want to rely on the Cambodian medical system  my Thai wife and I visited a few years ago she became ill and we came back here for treatment.

It must be awful to be so scared of illness that you live your life only in places with 1st world hospitals.

Driving a car must be a nightmare of fear for you.

Accept death when it comes.

Edited February 4, 2019 by BritManToo

[baansgr]

23 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Possibly this will greatly help Thailand get rid of the retirement community that is not wanted in Thailand and overall improve the quality of people who stay and retire here .

Look at this as an evolution as Thailand becomes a more upscale and cutting edge international country in Asia . Upgrade your profile or move on and find another place that was like Thailand was decades ago because so much is and has changed here . Nothing stays the same and be happy for Thailand as it becomes a more upscale and technologically upgraded location . If you don’t want make the effort to upgrade your profile to match the changes taking place in this country just move on but don’t complain about Thailand wanting to upgrade every aspect of its country and expat community . I remind myself I am a guest here and the country looks out for its own people first not the expat .

In most countries that would stand true but toyland afraid not. No matter how "upscale"it may look on the surface, child prostitution, corruption, gun crime, low education level, child labour, animal fighting for gambling, diseases on the increase and a whole list of other things in toy culture that are ingrained and will never change mean it will never be an "upscale" country in the next 100 years. Having a new pick up and iphone on the never never is a farce really

[bkkcanuck8]

8 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

Not sure about Vietnam but would not want to rely on the Cambodian medical system  my Thai wife and I visited a few years ago she became ill and we came back here for treatment.

The doctor I trust most in the region is in Vietnam (Canadian doctor there for quite a long time).  For any major medical procedure he would direct you to a Thai hospital for things like surgery (or Singapore) -- but like many 'for profit' hospitals going directly in for a diagnosis -- you might end up with unnecessary procedures.  A rather good reputation hospital doctor here had me scheduled for 2 different MRIs when only one was necessary, and had prescribed me two medications that should never be prescribed together (it is how I ended up meeting the doctor in Vietnam in the first place - I balked at having to spend $1,300 for two MRIs and went to visit my sisters doctor and got the one MRI done for maybe $100 to $150 dollars.  I was pretty sure I was dying -- I just did not realize it was the doctor trying to kill me ????

Edited February 4, 2019 by bkkcanuck8

[atyclb]

20 minutes ago, taxin said:

Or do the same and get a 1 year multiple entry visa to Thailand, and continue to stay.

 

Still baffles me why so many people are unaware of the alternatives, which are a lot easier.

 

 

my post was just that, to mention one alternative

 

 

another interesting question is if it could be acceptable to keep the 800k baht (equivalent) is a thai bank in vietnam as they pay about 5% for a 1 year fixed term deposit.

 

https://www.scb.co.th/vn/interest-rate

Edited February 4, 2019 by atyclb

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

ossibly this will greatly help Thailand get rid of the retirement community that is not wanted in Thailand and overall improve the quality of people who stay and retire here .

Look at this as an evolution as Thailand becomes a more upscale and cutting edge international country in Asia . Upgrade your profile or move on and find another place that was like Thailand was decades ago because so much is and has changed here . Nothing stays the same and be happy for Thailand as it becomes a more upscale and technologically upgraded location . If you don’t want make the effort to upgrade your profile to match the changes taking place in this country just move on but don’t complain about Thailand wanting to upgrade every aspect of its country and expat community . I remind myself I am a guest here and the country looks out for its own people first not the expat .

It's much more complicated than this.

 

1.  Many of us long term expats- -over 10 years and more have married; purchased homes; cars- sent Thai children to school including university and also taken care of extended families.  Considerable amounts have been spent based upon  retirement/marriage rules in place.  

 

None of these assets are considered when application for extension of stay is considered. In addition,  there is no long term extension of stay for us even though we have committed, in some cases. decades to Thailand. We can't buy into the Social Security  medical scheme like expats in other countries and have no land rights. No extension for us past 1 year.

 

2. Thailand or any other country has the right to set limits on numbers of foreigners allowed and set financial standards, so the issue is not that.  The issue is providing a policy and executions of that policy that is consistent and applied fairly throughout the Kingdom.  The reality is that it is not.

 

3.  Thailand has  a problem- it has grown weary of Western foreigners- simply because it has so many that come for the  beer and the ladies. For decades it has allowed unfettered entry; unfettered tourist visas and made it easy for  foreigners it now does not like to stay in the country.  Thai people are tired of seeing drunk foreigners; unruly service girls that cater to them and every other type of foreigner that is involved in scams and other criminal activities.

Just as an aside- they  will eventually tire of Chinese purchasing large blacks of condominiums and establishing a business controlling large tracts of land.

 

4.  The problem is that since Thailand has encouraged and abetted bad behavior ( and made big money from it) it now wants to become another Singapore and get rid of most of it and control the rest.  The majority of  Expats living  in Thailand obey the law; keep a fairly low profile; raise families and treat others with dignity.  Mixed in with the good are the bad-albeit a small minority- but they stick out because their behavior is so noticeable.

 

5.  The question is how to get rid of the bad without also forcing out the good.  Part of the problem is that the bad are protected by the corruption that exists within the country. We all know who abets the system and allows it to continue. And the truth is that as long as the corrupt practices are allowed to exist- the 'bad' will use it to stay and the others who live in peace and obey the law will be inconvenienced. 

 

You want to change the 'rules'- do it and enforce it against those who abuse the system and leave the rest of us alone.

 

 

 

[HHTel]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

discourage ex-pats from staying here.

Retirees, not expats in general, and retirees make up the smallest percentage of expats.  I would guess that it will, in the main, affect those that have relied on income letters from their embassy.  Those that already deposit the required 800K will need some adjustment.

Edited February 4, 2019 by HHTel

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It must be awful to be so scared of illness that you live your life only in places with 1st world hospitals.

Accept death when it comes.

It is even more awful and pitiful to be so low on funds or so cheap that one does not or cannot care for their own health.

Very very sad indeed....

[Internatltraveler]

Normally, I don't like to get embroiled into these hostile conversations and ethnocentric comments, however enough is enough.

 

I have never heard of or seen so many arrogant and downright ignorant comments about the economics of people's choices as this topic seems to have brought up. So let me clarify a few obvious points that seem to be completely ignored by so many here that have chosen to comply with providing 800,000 baht in a bank and having it tied up now for a minimum of five months every year, and then having at least 400,000 baht not available for emergencies the rest of the year. For those who don't mind having their cash in a bank tied up at the lowest interest rate anywhere which means any bank anywhere nearly, more power to you. For those who have planned to have a larger amount of cash available to them, more power to them also.

 

And this does not include those of you who are fortunate enough to have a good health insurance system in your country that will cover you wherever you are...maybe soon you won't be so happy if current legislation passes that is working its way through the legal system here stating that we all must have at least a 400,000 baht in/out patient health insurance policy ISSUED BY A THAI Insurance Company in addition to the money deposited into our accounts to meet long term stayers. Knowing farewell that these policies will most likely not cover pre-existings, will have age restrictions, and get very expensive with aging and not available to a lot of us over given ages. Once your feet start getting squeezed in those new shoes, it will be interesting to see the negative comments from the people who claim they are the upper crust of retirees because they have so much money to keep in a Thai bank all the time,

 

For those of us who have substantial cash flow due to our financial strategies in life such as using a trust fund, a life annuity, a government or social pension that we paid into in order to have a stable and reliable income for the rest of our lives, but never did try to put money aside in excess to what our pensions provide, we may actually have more in a bulk investment than most of the majority of people here who have made other choices with their liquid assets. The question was should we save to have a bulk of liquid cash or a reliable permanent income for the rest of our lives. Maybe both options were not available to many of us.

 

I am neither the "lower marginal level of economic retirees" nor am I low class by any means unless you consider having over $5 million dollars in investments a poor class and a substantial education from a good ivy league school. I am professionally educated and in fact was also trained in financial planning professionally. I never would recommend people in the USA to carry large bank accounts that are exposed to low interest rates nor would I recommend people to place their funds into capital gains assets that diminish the size of their investments substantially either. Two factors eat away at our finances, liability through our tort law exposure in the USA and ever changing politically explosive rules of our taxation system.

 

We normally recommend safer investments as we age, thus they are less liquid in many cases so cash flow becomes king and capital assets are the food that feeds the golden goose. For those of you that do not understand other cultures it is time to stop this ignorant and downright stupid conversation of judging each other by how we are culturally, conditioned and have planned our lives. I have been retired for 25 years now, living in Europe (3 countries), Latin America (3 countries), Asia (2 countries) and have always had adequate income to live my chosen lifestyle of comfort and happiness. No country that I have lived in or am aware of so far is as limiting as Thailand. No country that is considered a third world country would consider forcing retirees to have $25,000 tied up in their banks, nor have them check in every 90 days our of the paranoia of immigration such as is here. No country that I know of expects a foreigner to provide 5 or 6 times the income per month of the average citizen living in their country.

 

What is going on here in this country to me is maybe part of an attitude reflecting how our own countries treat our immigrants, maybe we are not wanted here, maybe other nationalities are more desired, maybe only the wealthiest people are invited to live here to join the other elitist thinkers in this country,. None of us really know the motivation of immigration here, but if you read Thai Visa very much, who on earth would knowingly invite a bunch of old complainers who have nothing better to do than to sit around and Thai bash or complain about the culture or the people here. Who wants you even in your own country with this kind of attitude anyway? Many people have said, in all the countries I have lived, that the men coming to their country from other countries are either wanted in their own countries (by the law) or not wanted (by anyone there) in their countries ...so which category do most of us fall into anyway. It's time to stop being part of the proverbial hostility that we are creating and stop eating our first born and every one around us. and start having a bit more compassion and care about the people around us.

 

Whenever a country makes decision that affects literally thousands of people who are living there in peace, who offer no threat to their society and are willing to provide money and even our support into our new found countries, seems to me these are the type of people that should be welcomed with open arms, but if this bunch of yahoos on this site are any indication of what we represent then I too am in strong favor of kicking them all out also and that includes all of you who wave their money in their hands and proclaim they are better than everyone else because they have more money,,,what a pitiful group of losers we have become, and it is plain to see why we have run away from our own cultures and landed here or other places that are willing to tolerate us only because of the money we bring here, but even that gets tiresome after a while and you too should then consider why live here if all you can do is to sit on your bar stool and complain about the whole world around you. You are the problem, not the world old man!

 

I have never been exposed to the type of utter confusion and chaos Thailand Immigration has caused so many of the people who come here to live and contribute financially to the culture. Those of you who say we would not be missed...how ignorant can get you...if you take 30% even of the 250,000 pensioners living here you removed over 125,000 people paying monthly expenses, immigration fees, transportation, food and housing costs, plus caring for their kids in private or public schools, taking care of their Thai adopted families etc. This is damage to many people who could have been avoided if the rules were laid out to be fair for both this government and us a expats. Sure they will not really miss us as much as we like to think, but I bet many of you are willing to sit and criticize your own countries for doing the same things to migrants who want to join your country because they are leaving horrible and dangerous situations in their own homes and are only looking for a decent place where they can live and have their families safe and well educated. We are dealing with people and their families here not just numbers in the computer. Uprooting families and their kids and relatives, destroying many relationships of love and trust.

 

I sincerely understand that many of us come from countries that are even more onerous to foreigners migrating into our shores. It seems to me that the entire globe is becoming more hostile toward each other and you can plainly see it on this site with the sample of hostile, judgemental and down right stupid comments seen about our fellow expats.

 

I recently renewed my extension and am good to go for another year for only my 5th year. My time is quickly coming though when I get tired of instability and uncertainty about my immigration status from year to year as I get older. So this will probably be it for me but hot because I dislike this country. It's just a personal choice I have to make as 80 gets closer and my life is changing in ways that require more stability and consistency now...this is all on me, just like it is on each of you. If you don't like here you have a few choices, to continue to be part of the problem that forms the opinion of bad attitude foreigners that sit and complain, get drunk, act crazy in public and ignore the local customs and traditions, or you can be respectful toward your fellow brothers and sisters, and even be helpful in your communities, or maybe you should just pack up and leave and stop creating such a coat of slime over the good people who want to live here in peace and quiet and pass the days till they are no longer around....your choice. My vision is probably not possible and will be attacked by many of you trolls who will probably enter the gates of heaven and complain about the angels being so loud with their wings flapping. Peace be with you all and one can only hope to make it a better place but somehow I don't think that will be possible here in Thailand with this bunch of old losers who must read every word of Thai Visa every day to write their two cents worth of critical acid and feel their day is completed successfully. How did we get to this point anyway?

[robertson468]

6 hours ago, lipflipper said:

I will take a wait and see approach before cashing in my chips here in Chiang Mai. As usual with Thai Immigration they seem to always have their heads up their collective ars...es. One week it's a new set of financial criteria, the next week it's something different. I tend agree that Thai Government Officials simply don't want us here on a long term basis so they go about putting these ridiculous impediments in our way. I have already begun to look at Phnom Penh as a new place to put down roots, that liberal Business Visa that is available to Expats is a nice change from thbute B.S. that Thai Immigration put us through. Also Nha Trang in Vietnam is a viable option as a five year Visa is available there. Keep putting money into my Bangkok Bank account every month to simply satisfy some Immigration Official ain't gonna happen.

Sent from my CMR-AL19 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

But you can also spend it every month.  It doesn't have to stay there for ANY length of time......at least not at the moment.  There seems to be an awful lot of "Bru ha" going on here about money from people who do not seem to be interpreting the rules correctly.  If you can't afford to put in either 40K for spouces or 65K for non-spouces per month, you must be living on a pretty ify budget!

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It is even more awful and pitiful to be so low on funds or so cheap that one does not or cannot care for their own health.

Very very sad indeed....

63, no health issues, only occasional repairs for minor impact damage required so far.

No fears, no health insurance.

 

Hows your health?

Edited February 4, 2019 by BritManToo

[bkkcanuck8]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

5.  The question is how to get rid of the bad without also forcing out the good.  Part of the problem is that the bad are protected by the corruption that exists within the country. We all know who abets the system and allows it to continue. And the truth is that as long as the corrupt practices are allowed to exist- the 'bad' will use it to stay and the others who live in peace and obey the law will be inconvenienced. 

 

You want to change the 'rules'- do it and enforce it against those who abuse the system and leave the rest of us alone.

 

 

 

You could start by bulldozing the Pattaya area... oh wait... bad idea... I had a vision of when you demolish a building that is rat infested and them scattering around the neighbourhood... so not good... ????

[moe666]

Another thread about the new requirements for extension of stay filled with moaning, groaning, whining, and fear mongering. Leave if you cannot abide the new rules all others set down and shut up

[terryofcrete]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It does appear that this administration, and especially the biggest joke, are trying to do everything in their power to discourage ex-pats from staying here. Does it not? These imbeciles should be making our lives easier, and making visa policy simpler. Rather they seem to be tightening the noose, every chance they get. To call them ignorant, fearful, xenophobic, non-visionary, and misguided would be a vast understatement. Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite, and barely even disguising his contempt for foreigners. He is the single biggest threat to the ex-pat community right now. 

 

One can only hope that come election time, all of this nonsense will be over, and both Prayuth and especially the biggest joke, will be sent out to pasture for the rest of their lives. They are not doing anything that benefits their nation, and they are picking on good men, who are bringing a lot to the table. Dumb and dumber. What can one say? 

There is a scene in "Only God Forgives" ... a must see for anyone remotely interested in Thai/Farang affairs in LOS... the Police Boss gives a dressing down to a Farang and tells him exactly what they think of them in Thailand. I never forgot it , nor will anyone forget the movie having seen it. I always know where I stand when all is said and done. You will always be a Farang .. an outsider.