New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[onekoolguy]

2 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

That’s an understandable first reaction but I suspect that most of those who say that they will leave will change their mind when they stop to consider the cost of living in farangland. 

That can be a consideration, However if you own your home and are on medicare, expenses for most other items are less than in Thailand. You can live cheap here or in most countries if you really want to? You just have to avoid high cost areas.  I personally spend far more here than in the USA.  

[Surasak]

3 hours ago, shady86 said:

Better leave. Thailand needs quality expats, not quantity.

Where quality is controlled, there could well be an increase in quantity?

[david555]

4 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

leavers and stayers - sound familiar?

Was this a poll amongst Brits …? Brexit haunting ...LOL

[bkkcanuck8]

4 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Where are they going to go to,back home ,Cambodia,or Philippines,

save up a bit more money and the could be back.

regards Worgeordie

My guess is not, since the ones that will be in jeopardy were honestly not likely qualified in the first place but used corrupt methods to get around the qualifications.

[side]

8 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

nah...someone did bother to calculate,

a very modest 25k/month is a very low estimate,

that turns out to be 300k per year, that is many times more than nearly all tourists will spend

What did I just read? There are in excess of 35M tourists visiting spending up to 2 trillion THB or somewhere near 60B USD. The total income is the point being made. The average spend is a meaningless comparison. My theory is that the retiree impact to the economy is not hugely significant. Thailand's 2017 GDP was 455B USD.

 

Also, who made the calculation of 25K per month?

[smudger1951]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

yeah, and I'm having sex with two blondes in a Ferrari tonight.

Agree, when you've settled in somewhere and bought a tv and microwave etc for the room, intention and action are different things.

[suzannegoh]

That can be a consideration, However if you own your home and are on medicare, expenses for most other items are less than in Thailand. You can live cheap here or in most countries if you really want to? You just have to avoid high cost areas.  I personally spend far more here than in the USA.  

If you own your own home then you have capital tied up in the house that could otherwise be invested and earning a return. That opportunity cost is a hidden cost that should be counted as part of the cost of living.

 

[Naamblar2014]

Not sure how many retirees there are in Thailand but a figure of 73,000 in 2017 was found. 

Google Search Ref. https://timesofoman.com/article/132032

anyway  as it appears Thailand now seek them to deposit 400k that they can never use, isn't that quite a lot of money just sitting in Thai banks?

 

73,000*400,000=29,200,000,000 baht. Is that 29 billion baht. And then double that. And then think about all the things they have purchased over the years. Not bad for what some are referring to as,  well I'd rather not repeat their words.

[nodomino]

I came to stay here for the duration of my life. I’ve been here 13 years now. I’m ok with it. I’m not very gregarious so I spend most of my time at home. I had not foreseen any reason to NOT stay although I live close by the economic boundaries set by the government. That’s my fear. Those boundaries seem eminently changeable.  I’m near 75 years old and have survived some debilitating health problems that limit my mobility. Generally people in my age range do not get more energetic, they get less energetic.  I don’t want to become physically unable to depart so, while I am still able...I need to find a more hospitable place to finish out my life. Its very difficult to travel but next week I’m going to the Philippines to an area I have some familiarity with. I Hope I can find a more secure home there.

[LongTimeLurker]

4 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I suspect at the end of the day, many people saying they will have to leave, will find an agent who will sort it out for them, and the number of actual leavers will not be that high. this is Thailand after all, and they are very good at finding a way to make money scamming the system, and I am sure this will be no exception. The only difference is that it will probably cost more.

Yes, the agents will find a way around the problem and earn themselves more money in the process.

 

Meanwhile those of us that follow the rules now will be massively inconvenienced by this latest bullsh!t change.

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, jabis said:

It will hurt the banks' balance statements quite a lot, if that projection is in any way quantitative - 800k * half of retirees pulling the plug

Half are using the income method so no money in banks and the other half don't trust Thai banks so no money in Thai banks.  It won't hurt Thai Visa posting counts because as everyone knows after leaving Thailand when angry there is a rule one must post for at least 5 years from your cold water flat negative Thai comments. 

[brokenbone]

9 minutes ago, side said:

What did I just read? There are in excess of 35M tourists visiting spending up to 2 trillion THB or somewhere near 60B USD. The total income is the point being made. The average spend is a meaningless comparison. My theory is that the retiree impact to the economy is not hugely significant. Thailand's 2017 GDP was 455B USD.

 

Also, who made the calculation of 25K per month?

the average tourist spend far and away less than 300k in thailand per year.

its highly unlikely the average expat spend 25k or less per month, just take a look at your own spending and then give me any reason anyone from the west would tolerate much less

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL. No, it won't. The loss of the lower end of the financial strata will be insignificant, because of the change in visitor  demographics. The Russian and Asian visitor segments are experiencing double digit growth and they  present a much better value proposition for the Thais.

Quite right.  If the expat can not afford of the required money in the bank... then how is he actually contributing to the economy... not like he is a big spender lol.  

[brokenbone]

1 minute ago, jak2002003 said:

Quite right.  If the expat can not afford of the required money in the bank... then how is he actually contributing to the economy... not like he is a big spender lol.  

on the contrary, i havnt got it in the bank since i spend too much

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

Have you not realised yet ?

Thailand is for Thais  , its not a place where foreigners are wanted 

Same as the America (building the wall to keep foreigners out), UK (leaving Europe because people think foreigners are taking their jobs and spreading their religion), and most other countries. LOL.

[Nanaplaza666]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL. No, it won't. The loss of the lower end of the financial strata will be insignificant, because of the change in visitor  demographics. The Russian and Asian visitor segments are experiencing double digit growth and they  present a much better value proposition for the Thais.

Yeah those are the real polite people to have screwing up your country ,russians and chinese .the most inconsiderate people there are . Very bad manners (most of them ) treat thai people like garbage ,why do you think thai people change so much. 10/15 years ago the thai where much more polite, but they are being treated like s..t so they start to change (the ones in the touristy areas ) the people who come from farms never in touch with farangs much are still real . I would become less polite also if people think they are kings of the country and think they can get away with everything . 

[side]

5 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

the average tourist spend far and away less than 300k in thailand per year.

its highly unlikely the average expat spend 25k or less per month, just take a look at your own spending and then give me any reason anyone from the west would tolerate much less

So I'll say it again then "What did I just read? There are in excess of 35M tourists visiting spending up to 2 trillion THB or somewhere near 60B USD. The total income is the point being made. The average spend is a meaningless comparison. My theory is that the retiree impact to the economy is not hugely significant. Thailand's 2017 GDP was 455B USD."

 

What amount is larger? 1 billion, or 60 billion?

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, crazykopite said:

You cannot get into the U.K. unless you have a job that pays a minimum of £18,000 per year that is why there are a lot of Brits who have married abroad but their wives cannot get a visa due to the spouse not earning enough 

Yes, that is a problem, especially if your trying to apply when still in Thailand, together with the ridiculous cost of accommodation in the UK. So if you want to keep the option of your wife going to the U.K. open, you have to keep £18600 x 2.5 = £46500,+£16000=£62500 in the bank & Accommodation, If no income. So if you then have to keep another 400k Thai baht in the bank here, that's another £11500, so that would take it to >£74000 to keep ring fenced for BF&TI. ~(reduced by any pension of course for the UK bit). Hardly scrapping by with that resource level. Plus show a nett income being transferred to a Thai Bank perhaps.

 

So progressively, the younger generations in the UK have less stable pension provision and are going to find it increasingly difficult to do what the current generation are doing. The numbers of people able to come from the UK to Thailand long term will likely decline anyway, then add the exchange rate situation, and then add the instability of the Thailand end requirements. 

 

The numbers of retiree's will start to decline from the UK in any case, so why the paranoia that they are targeting expats.

Zooming out from the detail, Is it not that they just cannot design stable policy now, from the western perspective  The only substantial advantage left in Thailand is the reasonable cost of accommodation, if that changes numbers of permanent stayers will dwindle even more rapidly anyway.... 

[Hupaponics]

So much talk, and so little action.

Pai pai you FB peasants. Why you not leave already?

[jak2002003]

3 hours ago, jabis said:

It will hurt the banks' balance statements quite a lot, if that projection is in any way quantitative - 800k * half of retirees pulling the plug

But the people are leaving because they DO NOT HAVE the 800k in the bank.... so again, not hurting the banks balance!  

[Cranky]

4 hours ago, shady86 said:

Better leave. Thailand needs quality expats, not quantity.

Totally agree.  If a retiree doesn't have at least a million baht cushion in reserve for emergencies and their own peace of mind they should stay at home.  Also healthcare should be compulsory; it's just basic common sense for any country to insist foreigners are not going to be a burden and boot them out. What do they add to the economy anyway just cluttering up barstools nursing a happy hour beer or the pavements outside a 711.  Thailands version of Brexit - Titxit?

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

Your post is one of the more intelligent posts I have read regarding what immigration is doing to discourage foreigners from continuing to live in Thailand.  I have read so many pompous and smug comments from many of the posters on this site, making demeaning comments about expats who have to leave because they are unable to deposit 800,000 baht into a Thai bank.  These people brag about how they can easily make this deposit and many have said they have be doing this for years, lol.

 

There are far more expats that can deposit 800,000 baht in a Thai bank but are intelligent enough to see the folly in doing so.  These people will be leaving each month as their one year extensions come due, along with those who are unable to abide by immigrations latest hurdle.  

 

The leaders of Thai Immigration has made it clear, they do not want western retirees residing in Thailand.  This ridicules financial requirement of depositing money in a Thai bank is to take advantage of those who can't leave for various reasons, and to purge as many of the westerns as they can.

 

I wonder how many expats who have married Thai women and have kids here don't meet this latest hurdle for one year extensions.  These people will be forced to leave their families as their extensions come due. ????

I put 800,000 in a Thai bank 20 years ago.  I didn't see the folly then nor do I know.  Thai banks are sound and in 20 years the interest and favorable currency rates have made me a decent return.  Why is that folly?  I think I've more than doubled my money.  Someone can check.  I had the money in a fixed deposit account. 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

That is not strictly true. there are 2 methods - 1 is income, 2nd is money in the bank. 18k a year, plus 2.5 say  on top for every child must be on income. BUT, if you can show you have money in the bank then that is acceptable too. About 70k I think for the wife, more for the kids. You can also combine the two.

 

In my case I cannot meet the financial yearly income to bring the family to the UK. BUT, planning ahead meant that I kept my house in the south east and rented it out. It's not a great house, but still 300k pounds, I have no mortgage. Assuming I sell it, but a much nicer house up near my daughter up north, then I should have more than enough to show immigration and also enough to show 2 years later.

 

If you have sold your house and moved to thailand, or started a family in Thailand never thinking ahead for any pitfalls that may happen - like junta regimes or financial requirements, or future visa requirement changes then you pretty much deserve what you get.

Thanks for that.  I sold my house 20 years ago and put the money in a Thai bank fixed account and have lived off of the interest for 20 years.  I now have more in the bank than when I got here and I have lived much better than I could have in the West for 20 years.  Nice to know I pretty much deserve it. 

[davidstipek]

This is getting Funny!

 

I just left Chiang Mai Immigration (Monday, Feb. 4tn). I went to pose this question to the Director here, if this was true what was bouncing around TV, on this subject.

 

The answer I received was my account needed to show the funds, intact in my account 3 months prior to Visa renewal! PERIOD!!

 

As for the idea being discussed here, answer was a flat "We have not received any Orders to change the intact rules"! Original Immigration Rules still apply!

 

So I have a answer that buffs everyone's fears on what was being told ( by who??) On this subject. I am sure that if we visit Immigration 3-4 months prior to renewal date and ask again we will get a current answer. Would be nice if they would send a notification of change letter to all current Retiree's of change when it happens. If it ever does. This would show everyone that all this paperwork they say they are doing is actually getting done, also prove that the 90 day reporting is keeping everyone's Immigration folder current with correct address!

Edited February 4, 2019 by davidstipek

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, keith101 said:

These new rules will hurt the Thai economy if almost half leave unless they change to a spousal visa if they are married of course .                                 The Thai Baht is another major factor in how people can survive here and only the Government can step in and bring it back out of its inflated state wich will also improve exports as we all know the weaker the baht the more other countries can import just common sense instead of greed .

The Thai government doesn't have a magic wand that enables them to control international exchange rates. They might do somethings that have a minor, short term effect, but the US dollar, Chinese yuan, etc rates are what influence trends in exchange rates. Unless they decide to peg the baht to another currency or basket of currencies, which would be a big mistake, exchange rates will be driven the market.

[Benmart]

4 hours ago, shady86 said:

Better leave. Thailand needs quality expats, not quantity.

Define quality. Define your version of how things should be. Define your qualifications. Define nationality. Define your place in the Thai government hierarchy.

[Chippy151]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

Your post is one of the more intelligent posts I have read regarding what immigration is doing to discourage foreigners from continuing to live in Thailand.  I have read so many pompous and smug comments from many of the posters on this site, making demeaning comments about expats who have to leave because they are unable to deposit 800,000 baht into a Thai bank.  These people brag about how they can easily make this deposit and many have said they have be doing this for years, lol.

Very well said.

I'm not retired myself but I certainly agree with you regarding the pompous and smug comments being made. Who are these pompous and smug people who look down on other people? You don't know their circumstances. Maybe they have property in their home countries and are unwilling to have 800,000 baht sitting in a bank doing nothing just so they are allowed live in a country where they are not wanted by the authorities.

Nobody knows what's going to happen in this place least of all Immigration.

 

 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

6 billion a year is 10 million Chinese spending 600 THB each, peanuts.  

Average Chinese tourist spends 25,000 baht.  Nielsen. 

[Cranky]

It makes perfect sense for the rules to be clear for a change.  800k in the bank for three months prior to issue or renewal cant be much clearer, no have, no visa.  

[worgeordie]

4 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Where you you choose to go Worgeordie?

 

Chiang Mai, 

regards worgeordie