How Would You Like to Shape Thai Immigration For Retirement & Perpetual Tourist Visa

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

That would be a bit much IMHO...

but the minimal action should be to cancel there illegally-obtained extension.

And give them their money back.

 

[madmitch]

Let all extensions of stay be multi-entry. Charge a bit more to make up for the lost revenue from re-entry permits but do away with that unnecessary visit to Immigration. Has anyone ever had a re-entry permit declined?

 

It's not an Immigration issue but I don't know why people with a work permit have more privileges than someone on a retirement visa. For example getting a credit card, a post-paid telephone contract with handset, easier bank account opening. Retirees, with their 800,000 in the bank, are surely a better risk than a teacher on a one or two year contract with a WP earning 30k a month. Oh, unless the retirees actually have bugger all cash and have used an agent!????

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, madmitch said:

// Charge a bit more to make up for the lost revenue from re-entry permits

but do away with that unnecessary visit to Immigration. 

Visit to Immigration often not necessary.;

You can get your re-entry at the airport when you leave.

[onera1961]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

That would be a bit much IMHO...

but the minimal action should be to cancel there illegally-obtained extension.

They can come back and start over again. Unless you curb the root cause, you could never succeed. The root cause of agents are its customers. Without customers they are not in business for one day. While I don't subscribe to the  notion of punishing the consumer, but history has taught us that's the only way. 

[onera1961]

18 minutes ago, madmitch said:

Let all extensions of stay be multi-entry.

This is very minor issue. One can get multi-entry (or single entry) at the airport. Not a big challenge. I have obtained re-entry permit on tourist visas also. Takes 15 min at the airport.

Edited February 11, 2019 by onera1961

[Dumbastheycome]

On 2/10/2019 at 9:08 AM, roo860 said:

I was getting a bit concerned about the lack of topics about immigration, etc.
Nice one muka.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I'm disappointed !

At first read I was thinking "shape" meant more of the  sweet young ( Trainees? ) that are currently first line of approach in my  Imm. Office.

Is like a immunity booster to cope with  what follows.

Ahhh well. Trudge on.

 

[JackThompson]

31 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

What about people who are using those agents? Should they also be arrested and deported for life?

If there ever were a "real" crackdown, they would lose their extensions, at the least.  But it would be difficult if not impossible to prove which ones were legit or not - or complicit in any corruption.  This is the function of the agent - to provide a "private room deal" which insulates the payment from Foreigner to IO. 

 

Ask any agent, and they will tell you what they do is "100% legal" - so is the foreigner supposed to know the law better than the "expert" - and know they are lying?  After all, if what they did were "really illegal", you would not see ads like the one posted just above your post - right?  Or so the average person would believe.

 

I know better, and stay away from them (or will, for as long as I can), but I would bet most foreigners do not have a clue.

 

31 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If no customers, agents will vanish and IOs will stop receiving tea money. It is a catch 22 issue, famously said by one the greatest criminal Pablo Escobar.  He said if there were no demands for my product, I will stop. As long as there is a demand for my product, I will continue my business. 

If immigration were not driving the demand higher and higher, with rules that only serve to encourage agent-use while not addressing their corruption-problem, this would make a better case.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Apparently, they intend to put us all into the "bribe to stay" category - or remove us from the country - they don't seem to care which.

They don't put you into the bribe to stay, you choose to do so.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 new regulations intended to increase under-the-table revenue for immigration - and deter those "Cheap Charlies" who make honest in-person applications.

No, it is to get the people out who don't match the criteria and do anything to stay.

[onera1961]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If there ever were a "real" crackdown, they would lose their extensions, at the least.  But it would be difficult if not impossible to prove which ones were legit or not - or complicit in any corruption.  This is the function of the agent - to provide a "private room deal" which insulates the payment from Foreigner to IO. 

Agents have all the records of their clients. 

[onera1961]

24 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

After all, if what they did were "really illegal", you would not see ads like the one posted just above your post - right?

If it is legal how can they arrest IOs, just because a Farang did not get what he wanted neither in his home country and came to Thaialnd to assert his privilege? This does not make sense.

[onera1961]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If immigration were not driving the demand higher and higher, with rules that only serve to encourage agent-use while not addressing their corruption-problem, this would make a better case.

If arrest is proposed everybody should be arrested. Farangs don't have any special privilege in any foreign country.

[Mavideol]

On 2/10/2019 at 9:21 AM, onera1961 said:

Forgot to mention the disclaimer: None of these benefits me. I live only for 6-month in Thailand on an O-A visa (Oct-Mar). And then I fly to Las Vegas for three months and then go to Benidorm for another three months before returning to Thailand again. 

whowww what a busy chap and you still have time to post a topic that doesn't affect you....hummmm

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, madmitch said:

Let all extensions of stay be multi-entry. Charge a bit more to make up for the lost revenue from re-entry permits but do away with that unnecessary visit to Immigration. Has anyone ever had a re-entry permit declined?

 

It's not an Immigration issue but I don't know why people with a work permit have more privileges than someone on a retirement visa. For example getting a credit card, a post-paid telephone contract with handset, easier bank account opening. Retirees, with their 800,000 in the bank, are surely a better risk than a teacher on a one or two year contract with a WP earning 30k a month. Oh, unless the retirees actually have bugger all cash and have used an agent!????

 

The 'more privileges' as you put it is not 'designed' by immigration.

 

Credit cards are very high risk products for all banks, all countries, who write off very large amounts of debt that will never be paid every year.  So it's not surprising (at least to me) that many banks rank foreigners with tourist visas / even retirement visas as high risk. And the risk ranking is entirely up to the bank, nothing whatever to do with immigration.

 

And yes it does seem that many Thai banks put PR holders on a slightly better risk ranking  than other types of visa holders, individual bank policies, nothing more. 

[onera1961]

37 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

whowww what a busy chap and you still have time to post a topic that doesn't affect you....hummmm

Curse of sitting idle all day. What can I do? may be I should volunteer but I am barred to do so also. 

[madmitch]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

This is very minor issue. One can get multi-entry (or single entry) at the airport. Not a big challenge. I have obtained re-entry permit on tourist visas also. Takes 15 min at the airport.

I'm a bit biased on this one having made the mistake of forgetting to get a reentry permit a couple of years ago and therefore had to go through the entire process or re-obtaining a retirement extension from scratch! Trips to Vietiane and Penang plus visa runs every 90 days for a year (though this wasn't a problem as I always made them a holiday rather than a quick border hop).

 

However, not all airports and land borders have the facility and even those that do aren't always open 24 hours.

[chainarong]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 10:12 AM, Peterw42 said:

A path to PR/citizenship for retire or marriage extensions. At the moment the pathways require job, paid tax for so many years. 

Unfortunately this is the end result of countries changing or enforcing policy, one good reason to never cut ties with your country of origin.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

They don't put you into the bribe to stay, you choose to do so. 

When the rules are changed such that those who legally qualified before are no longer considered qualified, or when the honest in-person process is made horrendous (marriage-based, in many offices; ED-extensions also) this is much more likely to occur. 

 

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 new regulations intended to increase under-the-table revenue for immigration - and deter those "Cheap Charlies" who make honest in-person applications.

No, it is to get the people out who don't match the criteria and do anything to stay.

I think you are mistaken, given the new rules have no effect on how the Agent/IO system currently works - getting "seasoning" waived for a price.  Changing the seasoning period, when it gets waived anyway, won't make any difference.

 

But, as I said earlier, if the big-name agents and the IOs they have worked with for years are rounded up and prosecuted, I could be proven wrong.  My prediction is, they might have a short "holiday" period, while new arrangements are configured - but maybe not even that. 

 

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Agents have all the records of their clients. 

Unless they have a recording of telling a client they intend to violate the law, and the client agreeing to participate under those circumstances, I don't see how that factors in.

 

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

If it is legal how can they arrest IOs, just because a Farang did not get what he wanted neither in his home country and came to Thaialnd to assert his privilege? This does not make sense.

They haven't arrested the IOs working with the big-name agencies.  They arrested a few doing "deals on the side" only. 

The agent-money appears to be distributed upwards though the chain - why there are still no arrests, even with public-ads offering to bypass the financial requirements still present, today.

 

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

If arrest is proposed everybody should be arrested. Farangs don't have any special privilege in any foreign country.

The agent and IO may have traded money for "extra consideration" in processing extensions - which is illegal.  Paying an agent a service-fee to deal with immigration on your behalf is not illegal, unless you are aware of some illegality taking place.  At most, one's extension would be canceled, if it were determined an agent and IO conspired to provide it improperly.

[FritsSikkink]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The agent and IO may have traded money for "extra consideration" in processing extensions - which is illegal.  Paying an agent a service-fee to deal with immigration on your behalf is not illegal, unless you are aware of some illegality taking place.  

Give me a break,if you don't have the money needed, you know there is something illegal happening and you are responsible too.

The amount of BS excuses from people who could never stay here according the rules is breath taking.

[watcharacters]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:08 AM, Psimbo said:

as for the 'none of this affects me' comment in the first post why bother even setting it up then. it doesn't affect you so raising the question is completely moot.

 

 

Could it be that some care about the welfare of others?

 

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Give me a break,if you don't have the money needed, you know there is something illegal happening and you are responsible too.

The amount of BS excuses from people who could never stay here according the rules is breath taking.

There are some who have the finances but have decided they would rather pay an agent to avoid the complications thrown at your feet. Getting a local bank account, oops need a res. certificate, oops need as letter off the bank, oops need a TM30, oops need to get married or put money in the bank like some complicated gestation period.

Then go to their office, get stuck in long sweaty queues, made to wait and often treated impolitely, namely messed about from pillar to post. There are those too. 

[JackThompson]

27 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Give me a break,if you don't have the money needed, you know there is something illegal happening and you are responsible too.

The amount of BS excuses from people who could never stay here according the rules is breath taking.

The agents claim that they are legally permitted to "sponsor" your extension for a fee.  I do not think this is legal, but many who don't read countless pages on TV probably think, "They (agents) know better than me what is legal or not."  After all, they work with immigration - right?  And, again, it is openly advertised - so most people would think if it "really were illegal," they would be rounded-up - years ago. 

 

It would not take a master-detective to uncover what is going on, given the advertisements.  Is there no official in Thailand who can see those ads and take action?  There are only two possibilities:  It is legal - OR - those who could prosecute the activity - up to the top of the chain - are compensated not to do so.  Instead, those at the top make even more regulations to ensure Even More agent use by adding a new set of victims - those who could legally qualify before the last set of changes.

 

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

There are some who have the finances but have decided they would rather pay an agent to avoid the complications thrown at your feet. Getting a local bank account, oops need a res. certificate, oops need as letter off the bank, oops need a TM30, oops need to get married or put money in the bank like some complicated gestation period.

Then go to their office, get stuck in long sweaty queues, made to wait and often treated impolitely, namely messed about from pillar to post. There are those too. 

I would bet most could qualify legally within the "married to a Thai" category.  But given the abuse they heap on, they go to agents. I think the abuse is to ensure this outcome, given the financials are "do-able" to a larger percentage of potential applicants.

Edited February 11, 2019 by JackThompson

[ubonjoe]

This topic appears to of run it course since the last few posts that are now removed were just baiting and bickering between a couple of members.

Topic now