Is offering tea money a crime?

[scubascuba3]

Are you prepared to take the chance and offer him tea money?   

I don't need to because I'm 100% legal but i know these cameras are a pain in the arse, if they weren't more police would use them. I've only seen one rider who was a taxi bike with a backup large battery which is what i use

[JayBird]

In America: Donate to the police man's ball.
Schools: Donate to build a new wing.
Hospitals: Donate to build a new ward.
Government: Donate to a campaign

In Thailand, it's just cheaper.

[Myran]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Is there anyone here who hasn't paid, "sin nam jai"? 100 baht to the traffic cop. Etc.

There are many times, especially in the land office etc, where things are made very difficult if not offered.

I have never been asked or offered to pay a bribe during my years in Thailand, no.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

and I thought agents were illegal and BJ was going after them... but I could be wrong

If agents are illegal, you could just get the immigration police officers to arrest them when they enter immigration.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Has anyone ever been arrested or fined for offering tea money to the police, including immigration?

It could well happen, if the offer was too small!

[Orton Rd]

Forgetting you left 2k in your passport as you hand it over is not a crime, they can always give it back!

[Pattaya46]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Is there anyone here who hasn't paid, "sin nam jai"? 100 baht to the traffic cop. Etc.

I have never been asked or offered to pay a bribe . Living here for 12 years.

 

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

There are many times, especially in the land office etc, where things are made very difficult if not offered.

I was expecting a request for an "envelope" when I sold my condo last year, but apparently this old practice has been stopped/terminated at Pattaya Land Office. 

[onera1961]

If Thailand get rids of endemic corruption, Thai Baht will appreciate so much that most foreigners will not be able to live here cheaply. In meetings after meetings, it is reported the investors want to put more money in Thailand if they could end endemic corruption. 

[impulse]

12 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Is there anyone here who hasn't paid, "sin nam jai"? 100 baht to the traffic cop. Etc.

I have never been asked or offered to pay a bribe. Living here for 12 years.

 

Kudos for that, and I mean it sincerely.  I realize the question was "Is there anyone...", and some portion of the expat population has dodged the bullet.  But I suspect you're in the minority.  A tiny one.

 

Given that there are hundreds of thousands of foreigners living in Thailand, many of them for decades, you'd have to survey a sample of hundreds or thousands of us to have a statistically valid sample.  

 

I started paying tea money in small dribs and drabs about a week after I started driving in Thailand.  Usually for non-offences, because that was easier than handing over my DL and spending a few hours retrieving it at the cop shop.

 

Also interesting that, under the USA Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, it is NOT illegal to offer a bribe to an immigration official in a foreign country to expedite a visa.

 

[dcnx]

13 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

It is called a bribe and yes that is a crime.

And unfortunately a part of Thai life and Thai culture. It’s how you get things done.

[neeray]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In my own experience and what I heard from other you don't have to offer a bribe. If the recipient is interested in a bribe he/she will tell you.

And if you absolutely want to offer a bribe you could ask something like: xyz takes a long time, can we solve this faster if I pay something - or something similar to that.

The recipient will understand what you are saying but you can always deny this was about a bribe. You just wanted to help.

Nonchalance would probably be a safe bet. Like when you open your wallet to access your DL, maybe a few hundred baht comes out along with it. A bit of 'power of suggestion' presented nonchalantly.

(Nonchalance is a casual lack of concern, a relaxed state without anxiety or enthusiasm.)

[wotsdermatter]

16 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Is there anyone here who hasn't paid, "sin nam jai"? 100 baht to the traffic cop.

In all of my years riding my motorcycle in Thailand, and being stopped for supposed offences or during the "crackdowns" that take place with police lining the sides of the roads and pulling over mainly motorcycles and pickups, I never contributed a single stang or anything else to a single policeman.  Always received a smile and waved on my way when I lifted my visor they saw I was not Thai.

 

'nuf sed

[JackThompson]

As to the OP's question - my advice is: Do NOT be a fool, and risk your life/freedom by offering a bribe.  Immigration have a massive built-in bribery scheme worth oodles of baht done in back-rooms via agents. They could bust you and throw you in the can as a cheap pawn-sacrifice to show how "not corrupt" they are, while continuing the agent-business (where the real money is).

 

18 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Who cares in this thread how it works in other countries?

Thailand clearly says (and writes) :

APPLICANT MUST SUBMIT THE APPLICATION IN PERSON 

Yes, sometimes for 5 whole minutes as they take your pic.  The agent does all the rest.  If they bribe, how would the applicant know? (and, no, I have not used an agent for immigration, ever).

 

15 hours ago, Mavideol said:

and I thought agents were illegal and BJ was going after them... but I could be wrong

No, the new "more strict" rules for retirement were designed not to impact the agent-business.  They ignore the 3 mo seasoning now for agent-submitted applications, and will ignore whatever new seasoning is imposed. 

 

It seems they wanted a "raise" in agent-money, so changed the rules in a way that will likely correspond to higher "agent fees."  A similar "raise" was arranged by the "crackdown" (sic) on ED-extensions.  The nature of this change is more evidence that those at the top (who issued the new rules) are receiving shares of the agent-money - likely in a "multi-level marketing" fashion, with huge payoffs for the top-brass.

 

6 hours ago, dcnx said:

And unfortunately a part of Thai life and Thai culture. It’s how you get things done.

I disagree on "culture" - more like "A cancer on Thai society which needs to be cut-out."  

 

But, the attitude and procedures of some IOs when you do things in person for the published-fee indicates they are Very Unhappy you are not paying them off, instead.  If only it were as simple and inexpensive as a 1000 baht tip - but no, they have become very greedy, and want much more through their agent-partners.

Edited February 22, 2019 by JackThompson

[SheungWan]

Thread an opportunity for some guys to parade their clean white shirts.

Edited February 22, 2019 by SheungWan

[mikebell]

19 hours ago, bbko said:

a small business in Pattaya with my wife

All small businesses + many big ones pay protection money in Pattaya.

Edited February 22, 2019 by mikebell
unnecessary word

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

No, the new "more strict" rules for retirement were designed not to impact the agent-business.  They ignore the 3 mo seasoning now for agent-submitted applications, and will ignore whatever new seasoning is imposed.

How can you write such things when nobody still know for sure how extensions exactly will work next year?

Agents now know no more than us, and it's very possible that things turn bad for their business 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

disagree on "culture" - more like "A cancer on Thai society which needs to be cut-out."

Personally, I'm happy with the way the system works, but maybe I'm just a selfish****!

When stopped on the Bangkok expressway with an offer of 300 baht to the cop or a trip to makkasan police station adding about 3 hours to my trip home, it's a no brainer.

I know no-one who would choose the 3 hours stuck in traffic.

[geoffbezoz]

How can something that is part of the entrenched culture throughout all levels of Thai society be a crime ?   Does giving a tip to a waitress for giving you more than your fair share of chips or serving you before others  amount to a crime also ?

Edited February 23, 2019 by geoffbezoz

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Personally, I'm happy with the way the system works, but maybe I'm just a selfish****!

When stopped on the Bangkok expressway with an offer of 300 baht to the cop or a trip to makkasan police station adding about 3 hours to my trip home, it's a no brainer.

I know no-one who would choose the 3 hours stuck in traffic.

One can make a valid argument that small amounts of "tea money" in exchange for traffic-violations are a better-deal than the alternative of going to a police-station to pay a fine.

 

Where it becomes a problem, is when the amounts are large, and failure to comply results in losing the ability to stay in one's long-term retirement-destination or remain to live with and support one's family.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Agents now know no more than us

Sure they know more than you. The have access to the big bosses in Immigration. Have you earned the privilege of accessing the big bosses? In today's society you can earn privilege by spending money, by becoming famous, or by connections. Now it is your choice what option you choose. 

[Pattaya46]

12 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Sure they know more than you. The have access to the big bosses in Immigration. //

Several Immigration Offices have said that they have currently no idea how extensions (and money checks) will work, and that they are waiting for instructions from Bangkok. You Agent can't know more than the local Immigration boss...

Any Agent who today make promises on next year extensions is a liar.

[hgma]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:33 AM, Rally123 said:

Offering tea is illegal. Due to the clampdown on police you'll notice they wear headcams on their helmets these days at traffic stops.   

 

 

flashed     27 km too fast ......500 bath by post, between Udon Khon Kaen   sharp picture.....payed immidiatly by bank transaction (Krungthai only!!)

[Geck0]

Dunno about the money but refuse a cup of tea offered by russian

[Puccini]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:12 AM, Neeranam said:

Do you know what the penalty is?

Maximum five years prison or maximum 10,000 Bahr fine or both.

 

From the Criminal Code:

 

Quote

Whoever, giving, offering or agreeing to give the property or any other benefit to the official, member of State Legislative Assembly, member of Provincial Assembly or member of Municipal Assembly so as to induce such person to do or not to do any act, or to delay the doing of any act contrary to one's own duty, shall be imprisoned not out of five years or fined not out of ten thousand Baht, or both.

 

[Pattaya46]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:02 AM, Neeranam said:

Has anyone ever been arrested or fined for offering tea money to the police, including immigration?

 

Searching on this forum :

 

Attempted Bribery of Pattaya Police Officer leads to capture of stolen motorbike

// he was arrested seconds after the 2,000 Baht was handed over.

 

Wanted Russian attempts to Bribe Pattaya Immigration Police

During questioning Mr. Tsirp is alleged to have offered officers 700,000 Baht in cash to secure his release. The alleged bribe was not accepted and it was decided to charge him with attempting to bribe a Royal Thai Police Officer

[PETERTHEEATER]

The recent posting of signs at Immigration points stating 'NO TIPS' is directed at the customer. You are not to offer tips to the staff,

 

However, it is OK for the staff to request payment for services shown as 'Free' on the Immigration website. For example the transfer of extensions from a previous passport into a new passport and 'Certificates of Residence' Five hundred baht each seems to be the norm.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

How can something that is part of the entrenched culture throughout all levels of Thai society be a crime ?

Crikey, where to start.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

However, it is OK for the staff to request payment for services shown as 'Free' on the Immigration website. For example the transfer of extensions from a previous passport into a new passport and 'Certificates of Residence' Five hundred baht each seems to be the norm

Surely it is not OK to charge for a free service. I got a free cert. of residence from Khon Kaen a few years back.

[jacko45k]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Surely it is not OK to charge for a free service. I got a free cert. of residence from Khon Kaen a few years back.

You won't get a free one at Jomtiem, they  usually try to get you to pay for two!

[Pattaya46]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You won't get a free one at Jomtiem, they  usually try to get you to pay for two!

Not 100% true. There are occasionally reports on Pattaya's forums of persons who - by principle - refuse to pay for a free service. It seems that they get their Certificate of Residence for free, but it takes 2-3 weeks to get it... and sometimes several visits to Jomtien Immigration... 

Jomtien excuse is that you pay for an "express service"... but yes, not receipt given.