Scamming At Immigration

[AGITATORKEN]

Guess I am just stupid. If these scamming thieves don't want my 1.4 million a year, I will spend it elsewhere.

Very true. Apart from that think that the op is over reacting to his own mistakes with what is required using income method. Rather than sell his condo etc, he is better off getting a non-0 (perhaps Laos) and starting over. Sounds like he is not skint. Just wack 800k in Thai bank.
As TallGuy points out, first post so perhaps unaware. As I mentioned in similar thread....I wonder how many xpats will have trouble for next extension. Many people haven't even heard of thaivisa. Blissfully unaware. As for "scam thing" mentioned by OP. Nothing new here just ignore.

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[brokenbone]

why am i not surprised it was jomtien ?

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

Easier to to leave this dishonest shithole,

 

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Where's the dishonesty.

You f***** up, not Immigration who are sticking to the rules.

 

I'm sure if your Pension provider stated you had an annual pension of $12,000, payable by 12 monthly instalments of $1,000 and they paid you $600, $800, $1400, you'd be the first to complain.

Your not being forced to go down any illegal dishonest route.

 

You can make sure your transactions are a minimum of 65K per month, obtain a Non Imm O Visa and start the process again.

Your angry, but selling your Condo and moving elsewhere would be far more stressful.

[freedomnow]

14 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

Guess I am just stupid. If these scamming thieves don't want my 1.4 million a year, I will spend it elsewhere.

 

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Start your seasoning of money now.

Go to Laos get a 2-month tourist visa, extend it another month Non Imm O Visa

Enjoy the beer. Enjoy the beer again.

Salt the money for 3 months.

Go for your retirement visa extension later with everything lined up correctly.

DONE.

Edited March 1, 2019 by freedomnow

[AGITATORKEN]

Where's the dishonesty.
You f***** up, not Immigration who are sticking to the rules.
 
I'm sure if your Pension provider stated you had an annual pension of $12,000, payable by 12 monthly instalments of $1,000 and they paid you $600, $800, $1400, you'd be the first to complain.
Your not being forced to go down any illegal dishonest route.
 
You can make sure your transactions are a minimum of 65K per month, obtain a Non Imm O Visa and start the process again.
Your angry, but selling your Condo and moving elsewhere would be far more stressful.

Wake up to reality. It's a scam.

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[55Jay]

54 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

EDIT: And by the way, Embassies stopping the affirmation on Income has nothing to do with the Thai's - its to do with the Embassies themselves being unable to accurately affirm the claims made on income without a great deal of effort, thus opening them up to incorrect statements. Too many people were making false claims which could not be accurately verified opening the Embassy up to criticism of flawed affirmations. 

 

22 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

So the 4 embassies were just fine issuing the income letter for the past 20 years...And then with-in weeks they all decided hey we were pretty stupid for the last 20 years issuing a income letter we can not verify.....Never mind it says right on the letter they are only notarizing a statement...

 

There is a 99.9% chance that it was Thai immigration that was the force behind stopping the letters.....And thats a fact.....

Indeed, it took 2 to Tango, and it follows Immigration's established trend going after various, well publicized Visa/extension games.

 

What's maddening though is other Embassies continue issuing Income Affidavits, StatDecs, et al.  Spoke with a Canadian a few weeks ago on-line who'd just done his annual extension with a fresh income letter from his Embassy.  Said it was normal procedure - made appointment, provided Consular with bank details as reference, swore oath it was true and correct, out of there in 20 minutes with the letter; no issues using it at Immigration.

[AGITATORKEN]

Start your seasoning of money now.
Go to Laos get a 2-month tourist visa, extend it another month
Enjoy the beer. Enjoy the beer again.
Salt the money for 3 months.
Go for your retirement visa later with everything lined up correctly.
DONE.

I am handicapped and cannot travel. That's why I have not left Thailand yet.

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[freedomnow]

Just now, AGITATORKEN said:

I am handicapped and cannot travel. That's why I have not left Thailand yet.

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OK, well hope everything works out.

[AGITATORKEN]

Indeed, it took 2 to Tango, and it follows Immigration's established trend going after various, well publicized Visa/extension games.
 
What's maddening though is other Embassies continue issuing Income Affidavits, StatDecs, et al.  Spoke with a Canadian a few weeks ago on-line who'd just done his annual extension with a fresh income letter from his Embassy.  Said it was normal procedure - made appointment, provided Consular with bank details as reference, swore oath it was true and correct, out of there in 20 minutes with the letter; no issues using it at Immigration.

It would not be difficult for the embassy to verify income. Are they not supposed to help their people. Thais could wave this for the first year but just found an opportunity to scam.

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[AGITATORKEN]

Very true. Apart from that think that the op is over reacting to his own mistakes with what is required using income method. Rather than sell his condo etc, he is better off getting a non-0 (perhaps Laos) and starting over. Sounds like he is not skint. Just wack 800k in Thai bank.
As TallGuy points out, first post so perhaps unaware. As I mentioned in similar thread....I wonder how many xpats will have trouble for next extension. Many people haven't even heard of thaivisa. Blissfully unaware. As for "scam thing" mentioned by OP. Nothing new here just ignore.

There is a bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you don't believe it is a Thai scam.

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[AGITATORKEN]

2 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

I am an American Expat who has been living in Thailand and had a retirement visa since 2008. I just attempted to renew my retirement Visa and was refused.  Here is the story and a real accounting of what is going on:
 
1- Embassy's stopped issuing income certification letters, probably under pressure from the Thai government.
2- No matter what you bring to Immigration, they will not accept.  I brought my bank book with transfer from America in the last six months totaling Bt. 1.4 million.  The bank book clearly states that the money came from an overseas transfer.  I was informed that it has to be Bt. 65,000 every month NOT AVERAGE, and certification has to come from my country.  I could probably get the certification from my bank, but I am positive they would not accept it.  I asked to see a supervisor but was refused.
 
HERE IS THE SCAM.
 
1- You can go to a Thai waiting outside the embassy knowing his buddy just turned you down.
2- For the tidy sum of $1,000 USD he will set up a phony bank account for you, pretend to deposit 800,000 in the account and fix it with his buddy.  You have to use his bank, which does not have internet banking for you to check the transfer.
3- My theory in reality is there is no money, the bankbook is just a piece of paper. There is no money transfer and it is a Thai scam. Pretty good income for a scam artist that earns $500/month.
 
 
For me it is the last straw of dishonesty in Asia and I will be selling my condo and my car and leaving.  If others did the same, they would put a stop to it. The American Embassy does absolutely nothing to help Americans in Thailand.
 
 

The Thais could give a little leeway to people who have been here a while and not start enforcing rules people did not know were in place. For anybody that does not believe this is a Thai scam,there is a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. FYI, that actually did happen

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[55Jay]

8 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

It would not be difficult for the embassy to verify income. Are they not supposed to help their people. Thais could wave this for the first year but just found an opportunity to scam.

The point being there's no 'verification' going on, even in the Canadian example.  It was simply the Affiant swearing/affirming the information provided was true.  Thai Immigration is all good with that.  Which begs the question - did TI inquire with the Canadians?  If so, what was their response? 

Edited March 1, 2019 by 55Jay

[baggies666]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Did anyone notice this post relating to Phuket I O yesterday from PIV website.States that post application 800k seasoning will be checked randomly. You might think that agent submitted or assisted applications may not be checked randomly if at all? 

I have just gone to read that, hard if you do your 90 day online unless its just rejected,  does the combo method read like it has to be pension if you have no embassey letter do you think?

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Yes but it was never you had to transfer 65k over, up to the end of last year you could "Prove" to your Embassy you had an income of 65K per month and use the letter provided by them to prove it to immigration.

 

The letter we used to get from the British Embassy asked for your ANNUAL INCOME from whatever sources, legit or not, and then divided it by 12, which then had to be 65k or over.

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

100K a month, I could manage on that as long as I didn't have big rent to pay.

And I am not cutting my beer bill in half for anyone.

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, Justin Side said:

Yes. The rule states that it has to be 65k every month and not an average.

Bizzare I know but that is the rule.

Not sure how someone outside an Embassy would be trying to force you down the illegal route.

What about the COMBINATION method?

[AGITATORKEN]

3 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

I am an American Expat who has been living in Thailand and had a retirement visa since 2008. I just attempted to renew my retirement Visa and was refused.  Here is the story and a real accounting of what is going on:
 
1- Embassy's stopped issuing income certification letters, probably under pressure from the Thai government.
2- No matter what you bring to Immigration, they will not accept.  I brought my bank book with transfer from America in the last six months totaling Bt. 1.4 million.  The bank book clearly states that the money came from an overseas transfer.  I was informed that it has to be Bt. 65,000 every month NOT AVERAGE, and certification has to come from my country.  I could probably get the certification from my bank, but I am positive they would not accept it.  I asked to see a supervisor but was refused.
 
HERE IS THE SCAM.
 
1- You can go to a Thai waiting outside the embassy knowing his buddy just turned you down.
2- For the tidy sum of $1,000 USD he will set up a phony bank account for you, pretend to deposit 800,000 in the account and fix it with his buddy.  You have to use his bank, which does not have internet banking for you to check the transfer.
3- My theory in reality is there is no money, the bankbook is just a piece of paper. There is no money transfer and it is a Thai scam. Pretty good income for a scam artist that earns $500/month.
 
 
For me it is the last straw of dishonesty in Asia and I will be selling my condo and my car and leaving.  If others did the same, they would put a stop to it. The American Embassy does absolutely nothing to help Americans in Thailand.
 
 

My mistake. . Not the Embassy, Jontiem Immigration.

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[AGITATORKEN]

My mistake, I meant Jontiem Immigration.

???
Gee sounds terrible.
A Thai was waiting outside the embassy?
What embassy was that?

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[AGITATORKEN]

That makes a lot of sense dissent it. Think about it

That's correct, the orders have always clearly stated income of 65,000 baht per month (as a minimum).

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[AGITATORKEN]

Immigration, sorry for the mistake.

This happened at an embassy or immigration? 

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[AGITATORKEN]

very interesting information but missing the most important, where was it? it would help many of us knowing the IMO

Jontiem Immigration

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[AGITATORKEN]

Good point, but pulling up this after all the years I have been here infuriates me.

I suspect the 1000$ can be negotiated down a bit if you speak to few more of the immigration guys friends

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[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Yes but it was never you had to transfer 65k over, up to the end of last year you could "Prove" to your Embassy you had an income of 65K per month and use the letter provided by them to prove it to immigration.

 

A lot of people seem to be ignoring that little point.

[newatthis]

28 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

It would not be difficult for the embassy to verify income. Are they not supposed to help their people. Thais could wave this for the first year but just found an opportunity to scam.

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It's only the beginning of March. Didn't you get your Embassy letter before the end of last year? They should still be good for another 4 months,

[AGITATORKEN]

I did not realize there was a difference between 65000, month and 195,000 every three months, Stupid me. Wake up to reality, it is a scam between the agents and the person charging $1,000 to pretend to put 800,000 in your bank account.

3 hours ago, AGITATORKEN said:

I am an American Expat who has been living in Thailand and had a retirement visa since 2008. I just attempted to renew my retirement Visa and was refused.  Here is the story and a real accounting of what is going on:
 
1- Embassy's stopped issuing income certification letters, probably under pressure from the Thai government.
2- No matter what you bring to Immigration, they will not accept.  I brought my bank book with transfer from America in the last six months totaling Bt. 1.4 million.  The bank book clearly states that the money came from an overseas transfer.  I was informed that it has to be Bt. 65,000 every month NOT AVERAGE, and certification has to come from my country.  I could probably get the certification from my bank, but I am positive they would not accept it.  I asked to see a supervisor but was refused.
 
HERE IS THE SCAM.
 
1- You can go to a Thai waiting outside the embassy knowing his buddy just turned you down.
2- For the tidy sum of $1,000 USD he will set up a phony bank account for you, pretend to deposit 800,000 in the account and fix it with his buddy.  You have to use his bank, which does not have internet banking for you to check the transfer.
3- My theory in reality is there is no money, the bankbook is just a piece of paper. There is no money transfer and it is a Thai scam. Pretty good income for a scam artist that earns $500/month.
 
 
For me it is the last straw of dishonesty in Asia and I will be selling my condo and my car and leaving.  If others did the same, they would put a stop to it. The American Embassy does absolutely nothing to help Americans in Thailand.
 
 

 

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[steve73]

42 minutes ago, AGITATORKEN said:

It would not be difficult for the embassy to verify income. Are they not supposed to help their people. Thais could wave this for the first year but just found an opportunity to scam.
 

The "agent facilitated extensions" (aka. your "Scam") have been around for many years, and are a very popular arrangement for many expats who do not have either the necessary income or savings to apply in person, although I have heard from numerous sources that they've recently doubled or tripled their "fees", and they're still not sure if they will be able to continue to offer their service for much longer.

 

4 country's embassies have stopped verifying income and no longer issue letters.  Unfortunately you are from one of those.  Thai Immigration has accepted an alternative means of showing income providing you deposit it into your Thai bank account form abroad.

 

Assuming you genuinely did not realize that these changes have recently been made, then you are unfortunate... but its not a totally irretrievably problem. 

 

If you decide to remain here on a retirement extension of stay you need to either deposit 800k in your Thai bank for 3 months prior to applying (and then leave it untouched for 3 months after, and then maintain 400k for the next 6 months), OR, you need to deposit a minimum of 65k every months into your Thai bank, originating from overseas.

Since you are not being allowed to extend your current visa, you will need to leave Thailand before your current permission to stay expires and then return preferably with a Non-immigrant O visa (or you can come in using a Tourist Visa or a Visa Exempt, and then convert this to a non-O at some Imm. offices) 

Edited March 1, 2019 by steve73

[AGITATORKEN]

The "agent facilitated extensions" (aka. your "Scam") have been around for many years, and are a very popular arrangement for many expats who do not have either the necessary income or savings to apply in person, although I have heard from numerous sources that they've recently doubled or tripled their "fees", and they're still not sure if they will be able to continue to offer their service for much longer.
 
4 country's embassies have stopped verifying income and no longer issue letters.  Unfortunately you are from one of those.  Thai Immigration has accepted an alternative means of showing income by depositing it into your Thai bank account.
 
Assuming you genuinely did not realize that these changes have recently been made, then you are unfortunate... but its not a totally irretrievably problem. 
 
If you decide to remain here on a retirement extension of stay you need to either deposit 800k in your Thai bank for 3 months prior to applying (and then leave it untouched for 3 months after, and then maintain 400k for the next 6 months), OR, you need to deposit a minimum of 65k every months into your Thai bank, originating from overseas.

Since you are not being allowed to extend your current visa, you will need to leave Thailand before your current permission to stay expires and then return preferably with a Non-immigrant O visa (or you can come in using a Tourist Visa or a Visa Exempt, and then convert this to a non-O at some Imm. offices) 

Thanks for the information. I am handicapped and cannot air travel. Lung problems. If i do manage to leave I am nor coming back.

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[phuketrichard]

as the NEW rulings went into effect today

HOW did he get his retirement extension for the previous 10 years as the same way would have worked yesterday!!

If he was using the income letter from the US embassy and got it as far back as Sept, it would still be good.

 

Sorry, more Fox fake news

Edited March 1, 2019 by phuketrichard

[steve73]

Just now, AGITATORKEN said:

Thanks for the information. I am handicapped and cannot air travel. Lung problems. If i do manage to leave I am nor coming back.

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You could do a quick border hop at any land crossing.  Then convert your 30-day VE to a non-Imm, and extend that.. but you'll need to start transferring your 65k every month in a form that they will accept..

(Others will have more info on this procedure as I'm not 100% sure what's involved) 

[AGITATORKEN]

Thanks for the information. I am handicapped and cannot air travel. Lung problems. If i do manage to leave I am nor coming back.

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Tripling fees is scamming.

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